What header will make my car not sound like a UPS truck....

[usurbrain]

I have a Corsa track exhaust with RT High flow cats. Stock headers. The UPS truck sound drives me nuts....

 

[audiowhiz]

I just spent a small fortune on an exact same setup as yours and it's on its way. I was hoping it would fix this UPS problem and apparently it doesn't.

Any chance you have a sound clip of your setup ?

 

[Austin]

I have a Corsa track exhaust with RT High flow cats. Stock headers. The UPS truck sound drives me nuts....

Heads or a head/cam setup. Im surprised you still think the car sounds like a UPS truck with the Corsa Track exhaust and HF Cats.

 

[musclenutz]

mine has same set-up and it sounds much better than stock.

 

[LifeIsGood]

One word...Belanger!

Call Lou (Belanger at 623-594-6600) and he will tell you everything you ever wanted to know about his headers.

 

[TowDawg]

I've got a set of M&M's and love them. Aires is selling a set of Belangers in the classifieds here as well.

 

[plumcrazy]

its not the headers, a V10 will never sound anywhere near as a good as a V8. get used to it

 

[Glen97]

I have a Corsa track exhaust with RT High flow cats. Stock headers. The UPS truck sound drives me nuts....

Gen 2, 3 or 4? I have a gen 2 with BBG American Racing Headers high flow cats with 3 inch to the rear with muffler delete. Love the sound!

 

[RECOIL]

Belanger/Corsa Track/No cats

I am quite impressed with this sound -- and my other car has a 502 in it.

Steve

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

I have a Corsa track exhaust with RT High flow cats. Stock headers. The UPS truck sound drives me nuts....

usurbrain,

What Generation Viper do you have, Gen 4 or Gen 3? The G3 will always sound a bit more aggressive with it's traditional camshaft design & the G4 a bit mild with it's VVT camshaft design at idle and lower rpm's. At mid range and WOT the difference in sound is minimul.

Whether your a G4 - G3 - G2 Viper I would suggest going with a header system that will deliver the most HP & Trq throughout the entire rpm range of your V10, which happens to be the long tube 5 into 1 race merge design. We have run both systems on the G4 - G3 - G2 Vipers and have been most impressed with the 5 into 1 merge.

The Tri-Y design has a specific rpm range that it functions properly in which in some cases my limit your power potential. On the other hand a correctly designed merge style header will make more power no matter what rpm range your V10 is running at and most importantly if you plan to modify your internal components ( Ported Heads, Ported Intake, Cams, Commpression Ratio, ect. ) the merge style will most definetly out perform the tri-y.

Note that the 5 into 1 merge style will actually smooth out the Viper's V10 & reduce engine vibration at high way speeds becuase it's long tubes & scavage design in the merge collector.

We definetly respect the other header manufactures, but our clients are typically looking at the best performance gains for their Snakes when they lay down their coins.

Toddy

 

[Austin]

Kooks headers sound really good too.

 

[audiowhiz]

mine has same set-up and it sounds much better than stock.

That makes me feel better about my purchase. Can't wait to put it on and hear it .

 

[Twister]

Hey get it right...Its a ********** UPS truck

 

[Twister]

Hey get it right...Its a PISSED-OFF UPS truck

 

[bmw2nv2000]

I had catless 2.5" Borla on mine with stock headers and yes it was more aggressive than stock but no where near aggressive enough. Just this week I installed my new M&M headers with full 3" Corsa catless track exhaust and HOLLY CRAP!! Now my viper sounds like it should and NO one will stand in the garage when I fire her up cause it will make your ears ring for a few hours GOD I love the way it sounds now.
Oh and my first test run after the install had the cops looking for me 5 minutes later I swear at 3k rpms and above it sounds just like a full out race car
Just installing this setup has made me realize I can never sell this old girl

 

[VicTxV10]

If you have Gen3, get used to it. The Gen4 cars have a much better sound from stock to full header/cat set up. Of course, if you have Gen3, you could install a Roe Racing twin turbo system. The turbos help with the UPS truck sound.

 

[SNKEBIT]

M&M HEADERS ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SNKEBIT]

delete delete

 

[treesnake]

M-M headers, 1 hiflow muffler, no cats.....

Sounds and works great....
Lotta' decel pop too....
And as you can see, flows very well......

( Sorry about sample photo, I can't find my file with this photo...)

 

[Rizzo]

My Gen 2 with no cats and a full Borla cat back sounded great. I loved it. My gen 3 with no cats and the 08 mufflers with the crossovers deleted sounds like crap until you get to high rpms but at low rpm up to mid range it sounds like sh*t. I would love to figure out how to get rid of the UPS truck sound.

 

[Mutts02GTS]

Hey Glen 97, No problems with California emissions? I'm just outside of Sacramento. I don't want to spend the coin only to find out my ride won't pass the pollution police.. Thanks Jeff

 

[Coloviper]

While my Gen III new and out of the box sounded "different", it was still a little UPS/Tractor/GEN I sounding from new.

The moment, I bolted on the full Bellanger set up of Headers, Hi-Flo Cats and Cat-Back, it woke it up to a a real muscle car sounding machine. Rich and deep! That is from 0-3000 rpm. Then above 3000 rpm, it changes and starts sounds like an exotic car, as it should have come from the factory. A very rich and perfect blend of low to high, deep to wail as it goes through the rpm band. It also gets louder, the hotter it gets. It is pretty loud but NOT abnoxious.

I will admit that now the car does get a little drone from 2000 rpm to about 3000 rpm at higher speeds, but in the first four gears around town, it is not a problem, as it actually makes the car sound like a real mean muscle exotic car. At highway speeds of 60 mph to 75 mph in 5th or 6th, and extended long trips, it can wear on you as the sounds are there. Then again with the lightweight Fidanza flywheel and 3.55 rear gears, it is easier to get out of that range and be comfortable. With our car, we went a step further and Dynamatted the entire interior of our coupe, every panel inside. Huge difference as now the louder exhaust is just there when you roll the windows down. When it is just myself, all windows are down. When my wife is with me, the windows are up.

Regardless, I have yet to have a Viper member or a member of any other muscle car or exotic car from the Cars and Coffee events or canyon cruises, not come up to me to express how perfect the car sounds now. How mean, muscular and exotic it sounds, yet not abnoxious sounding in any way.

I assume you are looking for this type of sound and experience. I only have experience with the full Bellanger set-up and I bought that from Parts Rack. Jon and Lou even helped me achieve a "factory" type of look by jet-hotting the exhaust tips in Black before I put the exhaust on. It really does look factory and not added on. It sounds like the way the car should have come from the factory.

Some people Cat, some don't. In the end, Colorado has very strict emissions testing and I experienced a big gain in HP with this set up, so my recommendation would be to still Cat. It also cleans up on the smells of the exhaust. Pull the Cats off and it takes that sound to another level, no doubt. Me, I experienced the gains I wanted, the sound I wanted, no issues (no CELs or problems of any kind) and it was good enough for me. Only advice would be to realy concentrate on how you run the wires to the O2 sensors as that wiring needs to be as far away form the exhaust headers as you can and routed to not come in contact.

Hope that helps you in deciding what to do.
Rick

 

[plumcrazy]

here is the best answer i have read on why the viper will always sound like a UPS truck.

Every one has a small piece of the answer but let me try to help answer the question "Why does the Viper engine sound the way it does"..well to start with..there is a pulse (tone) ring on the crankshaft that has five groups of two notches equally spaced apart at the outer edge. Each group of notches will represent a signal for a specific set of pistons. The PCM will determine the basic timing by looking at the falling edge of the slots. Each corresponding slot is 72 degrees apart and 3 degrees wide and there is 15 degrees between each slot in the pair.

The falling edge of the first slot, of each pair of slots is used for cylinders 10,4,6,8,2. The second falling edge is used for cylinders 1,9,3,5,7. There are five sets of paired cylinders: #10 and #5,#9 and #8, #4 and #7, #3 and #2, #1 and #6. It could take the PCM one full engine revolution to determine the crankshaft position when it is cranking.

Since the V10 is a 90 degree block, the combined angle of the bore center lines of the opposing banks will be 90 degrees, which means that a piston will at TDC every 90 degrees. Sooooo for each cylinder to fire, it would take 900 degrees of crankshaft rotation and no matter how you do the math....that won't work. So to match the crankshaft rotation, it was necessary to make it an "odd fire" engine. That means that the cylinders are not fired at the same crankshaft angle. Five of the cylinders are fired at 54 degrees and the other five are fired at 90 degrees which adds up to 720 degrees or two complete crank revolutions. This is why the notch edges are at different degrees since the spark will be staggered. Ok, so I have expanded on Marv S's answer... now lets expand on Doug's answer.

A DIS coil can be arranged in various alterations of polarity. This means it does not matter if the spark fires positive or negitive as long as there is enough voltage to jump the spark plug gap. As the primary flux collapses through the secondary coil windings when the primary coil is interruped, a high voltage potental is created. A quick interruption causes the flux to cut through the secondary windings faster which means a quicker interruption results in more secondary voltage than a slow interruption. Dwell (spark timing) is constant, at low RPM based on battery voltage. A constant dwell allows constant voltage at the coil for a constant spark. But at high RPM, there isn't time for full saturation of the coil. So the PCM will change the primary duty cycle from 100% to 80% to speed things up.

The voltage will leave the coil tower for example, #1 and travel through the wire to the #1 plug, through the center electrode, jump the gap to ground. This would be the cylinder that is on the compression stroke. This will require about 10-15k volts of the 40k potential from the coil. The companion cylinder, #6 will be the wasted spark cylinder. To complete the series circuit back to the coil, the remaining 25k volts travels through the block to
the #6 plugs ground, and jumps the gap. This will take about 1-3k volts. The circuit is then completed through the spark plug wire back to the coil pack.

When cylinder #6 goes to the compression stroke, cylinder #1 is on the wasted spark stroke. But the voltage from the coil takes the exact same path due the polarity of the coil. There is more than enough voltage to fire the plugs at any RPM.

Hope this helps.

more info found in this thread: http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/529313-vipers-double-piston-firing-sequence.html

 

[JohnnyViper]

yup thats a great answer, either way i love the way my viper sounds and would not trade it for a V8 tone

 

[Glen97]

Hey Glen 97, No problems with California emissions? I'm just outside of Sacramento. I don't want to spend the coin only to find out my ride won't pass the pollution police.. Thanks Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I cant say for sure on California emissions as I live in Calaveras County and we have NO smog check except when buying & selling a car so I dont have to deal with that. I have put over 4000 miles on the car after installing the headers & high flow cats with no check engine light.

Glen

 

[Detlef]

Rick,

Your car sounds awesome. The best sounding newer Gen in the club. Maybe I am biased as I've been told I have the best sounding Gen2 in the club. And ummmm, oh yeah, I have a full Belanger setup as well.

While my Gen III new and out of the box sounded "different", it was still a little UPS/Tractor/GEN I sounding from new.

The moment, I bolted on the full Bellanger set up of Headers, Hi-Flo Cats and Cat-Back, it woke it up to a a real muscle car sounding machine. Rich and deep! That is from 0-3000 rpm. Then above 3000 rpm, it changes and starts sounds like an exotic car, as it should have come from the factory. A very rich and perfect blend of low to high, deep to wail as it goes through the rpm band. It also gets louder, the hotter it gets. It is pretty loud but NOT abnoxious.

I will admit that now the car does get a little drone from 2000 rpm to about 3000 rpm at higher speeds, but in the first four gears around town, it is not a problem, as it actually makes the car sound like a real mean muscle exotic car. At highway speeds of 60 mph to 75 mph in 5th or 6th, and extended long trips, it can wear on you as the sounds are there. Then again with the lightweight Fidanza flywheel and 3.55 rear gears, it is easier to get out of that range and be comfortable. With our car, we went a step further and Dynamatted the entire interior of our coupe, every panel inside. Huge difference as now the louder exhaust is just there when you roll the windows down. When it is just myself, all windows are down. When my wife is with me, the windows are up.

Regardless, I have yet to have a Viper member or a member of any other muscle car or exotic car from the Cars and Coffee events or canyon cruises, not come up to me to express how perfect the car sounds now. How mean, muscular and exotic it sounds, yet not abnoxious sounding in any way.

I assume you are looking for this type of sound and experience. I only have experience with the full Bellanger set-up and I bought that from Parts Rack. Jon and Lou even helped me achieve a "factory" type of look by jet-hotting the exhaust tips in Black before I put the exhaust on. It really does look factory and not added on. It sounds like the way the car should have come from the factory.

Some people Cat, some don't. In the end, Colorado has very strict emissions testing and I experienced a big gain in HP with this set up, so my recommendation would be to still Cat. It also cleans up on the smells of the exhaust. Pull the Cats off and it takes that sound to another level, no doubt. Me, I experienced the gains I wanted, the sound I wanted, no issues (no CELs or problems of any kind) and it was good enough for me. Only advice would be to realy concentrate on how you run the wires to the O2 sensors as that wiring needs to be as far away form the exhaust headers as you can and routed to not come in contact.

Hope that helps you in deciding what to do.
Rick

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

While my Gen III new and out of the box sounded "different", it was still a little UPS/Tractor/GEN I sounding from new.

The moment, I bolted on the full Bellanger set up of Headers, Hi-Flo Cats and Cat-Back, it woke it up to a a real muscle car sounding machine. Rich and deep! That is from 0-3000 rpm. Then above 3000 rpm, it changes and starts sounds like an exotic car, as it should have come from the factory. A very rich and perfect blend of low to high, deep to wail as it goes through the rpm band. It also gets louder, the hotter it gets. It is pretty loud but NOT abnoxious.

I will admit that now the car does get a little drone from 2000 rpm to about 3000 rpm at higher speeds, but in the first four gears around town, it is not a problem, as it actually makes the car sound like a real mean muscle exotic car. At highway speeds of 60 mph to 75 mph in 5th or 6th, and extended long trips, it can wear on you as the sounds are there. Then again with the lightweight Fidanza flywheel and 3.55 rear gears, it is easier to get out of that range and be comfortable. With our car, we went a step further and Dynamatted the entire interior of our coupe, every panel inside. Huge difference as now the louder exhaust is just there when you roll the windows down. When it is just myself, all windows are down. When my wife is with me, the windows are up.

Regardless, I have yet to have a Viper member or a member of any other muscle car or exotic car from the Cars and Coffee events or canyon cruises, not come up to me to express how perfect the car sounds now. How mean, muscular and exotic it sounds, yet not abnoxious sounding in any way.

I assume you are looking for this type of sound and experience. I only have experience with the full Bellanger set-up and I bought that from Parts Rack. Jon and Lou even helped me achieve a "factory" type of look by jet-hotting the exhaust tips in Black before I put the exhaust on. It really does look factory and not added on. It sounds like the way the car should have come from the factory.

Some people Cat, some don't. In the end, Colorado has very strict emissions testing and I experienced a big gain in HP with this set up, so my recommendation would be to still Cat. It also cleans up on the smells of the exhaust. Pull the Cats off and it takes that sound to another level, no doubt. Me, I experienced the gains I wanted, the sound I wanted, no issues (no CELs or problems of any kind) and it was good enough for me. Only advice would be to realy concentrate on how you run the wires to the O2 sensors as that wiring needs to be as far away form the exhaust headers as you can and routed to not come in contact.

Hope that helps you in deciding what to do.
Rick

Rick,

I've run your exact set-up on the G2 - G3 Vipers over the years and can explain your drone issue. It's the Magnaflow Mufflers that are used for that particular header system package. Sounds good but alot of guyz switch up to corsa for the drone issues & the Corsa definetly does not rob power, but in fact makes power.

I always run the Corsa Track & have found the sound to be a bit more Nascar sounding with out the drone. You will definetly feel the car beat you up after a long trip, but without the drone headache. On the G4's we only have run our ACRX =BAD BOYZZ SERIES= headers with Stock Muffler & Corsa Track with excellent results on performance & sound quality.

Please know that I am not criticizing your Belanger System because I have been there many times over, I am only explaining the cause of your drone from our experience.

Personally I run my Viper " Nasty Sounding " like the Original GTS-R Factory Race Cars.

Toddy

 

[sssammm]

Im putting these on, with 3" pipe / muffler side pipe, hope it sounds better

 

[Camfab]

Nothing better than a huge cam, lots of compression, and of course a properly tuned set of headers w/merge collectors to help manipulate the stock Vipers odd fire tone. The Oreca GTSR's sounded really amazing.

 

[repiv]

Ups trucks are diesels round my house, CI engines sound nothing like SI engines