What's up with the tire war?

[Hisser]

What\'s up with the tire war?

O.K. I have always believed there is a reason for everything. How does a set of Michelin tires that is only made for the Viper on a limited production instantly start selling for 1/2 price? No flame intended, not my style. Seriously, First JonB, then Partsrack, now a Dodge dealer. Sounds like Michelin is on the verge of coming out with a much better tire. Just speculation. Hey, I bought one myself for delivery tomorrow from Partsrack. One guy here posted the tire he just bought was 2 years old. I am no tire guy but is that O.K. I probably bought one that old myself. Please do NOT start a flame. Let's have a little respect.

 

[Ron Hickey]

Re: What\'s up with the tire war?

Wayne, you may be on to something. I remember buying a pair of rear 335/35x17 tires for my 97 GTS back in 1998 when Tire Rack had a special price of $199/tire (regular price $320). It wasn't too long after that when the Pilot Sports became available and Vipers switched to 18-inch wheels.

What with the SRT-10 using different tires, and production being over on the Gen II Vipers, it's not unreasonable to assume Michelin wants to clear out its inventory of Pilot Sports in Viper sizes. Regardless, $800 a set for Pilot Sports is a great price. Price war or not, I had to take advantage of the pricing.

 

[JonB]

Re: What\'s up with the tire war?

NO SECRETS ! But if you dont read this whole reply, read the last line..........

Ron Hickey is correct: The same exact scenario occurred in 1999-2000 when Michelin stopped the 17" MXX-3 in favor of Sports. Tires dropped to $169 for a VERY BRIEF TIME, then $199, and stabilized at $249 til gone. Michelin made a killer offer to TireRack and 3 others, and even imported EURO MXX-3s overstocks to meet the demand. PartsRack bought almost 100 sets of 4 back then, and more since. The last one sold TODAY. HONEST. TODAY ! It was built 11/4th week/1998, the last week of production. Some here evn TRIED to buy / lease the molds for the MXX-3s !! GONE.

The 18" Pilots Sport C-1 (important to include C1) was the factory OE tire on 1999-2002 Vipers, built thru Aug 2002. Then discontinued favor of 18F/19R Run Flats. So, WHY would Michelin keep up stocks? RUN FLATS and Non-C1s are all that will be built.

They SOLD EM OUT to major outlets, and some secondary ones. The price was REDICULOUSLY LOW, and I wish I had 15+ acres undercover like TireRack. I had room (and $$) for 60 sets.

Personally, I was caught out surprised by TireRack who advised me that they planned a $262.50 price, so I went to $249. Later, TireRack UPPED the SEMA order, and got a lower price and lowered RETAIL but not wholesale prices! What could I do? I offered to Rebate those good customers who trusetd my "low price rep".

BE AWARE that not all sellers are selling C-1 s ! I even 'test bought' a too-good offer here, as suggested by a good, regular customer; I DID NOT RECIEVE C-1s ! The seller was CLUELESS about C-1. [C-1 is the up-rated Viper-Ferrari carcass, stamped as such and printed on the Michelin sticker.] Would I run Non-C-1s on the street? ABSOLUTELY! Would I try em on track? NOT LIKELY. But Ill let ya know, as I wont sell the 2 "test" tires!

IF YOU WANT C-1 TIRES, I ADVISE TO BUY THEM NOW, [PartsRack Please?] BECAUSE THEY PROBABLY WILL NOT BE BACK. SLATHER EM W/ ARMOR-ALL OR SILICONE. STORE EM IN BLACK PLASTIC GARBAGE BAGS, WITH the AIR VACUUMED OUT. THE MXX-3 SCENARIO IS REPEATING ITSELF, AND IT WAS VERY SAD WHEN MY LAST 2 MXX-3s LEFT TODAY....

Finally: These 2-year old tires are JUST FINE! These were stored at/by Michelin until liquidated. If they were Treadweear-50 DOT-race tires, that would be another matter, but you'ld only have to shave them. NO WORRIES !

 

[Ron]

Re: What\'s up with the tire war?

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">What then will 17" tired Vipers use once our MXX-3's are nothing but a fond memory?</FONT f>

 

[Marv S]

Re: What\'s up with the tire war?

Only 18" pilot sports have a C-1 Version.

17" pilot sports didn't have a C-1 version.

Ron, what are we gonna do 3 years from now?

 

[Ron Hickey]

Re: What\'s up with the tire war?

Marv, I hope we're not stuck with run-flats. The dry-road performance handling of Michelin Viper tires has been deteriorating since the days of the MXX3, and I'm sure those new run-flats will continue that trend. I'm confident that some manufacturer (hopefully Michelin) will make 18-inch tires for the Gen II Vipers.

Based on all the low-mileage cars you see out there for sale, it's obvious a lot of Viper owners don't put any miles on their cars, except for pulling it out of the garage into the driveway to Zaino it or onto the trailer to tow it to a car show 30 miles away. Those owners only have to worry about the tires deteriorating due to age, and not wearing out due to miles. In my case, with 20,000 miles on my 01 Bumblebee, tire replacement within the next 12 months is a very real probability. If I put only 1000-2000 miles per year on my Viper, I doubt I'd bother to take advantage of these sales prices -- I'd be 5-6 years away from having to replace the tires, and these ones on sale now will be 7-8 years old then.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Re: What\'s up with the tire war?

It looks like there will be a very nice tire from Michelin for Viper Days, so we won't have to worry about track rubber. This will be one bad set of donuts , that will run in the modified and Unlimited Classes. I would imagine the market for Pilot Sports will continue,they just are thinning out the stock now. The 18's with C1's are actually pretty darn fast on the track,and though alot of drivers don't drive in the rain, the safety is paramount for us if we get caught in a storm - the MXX3s were like being on ice skates. The Pilot Sports also have better ride capability and they were alot quieter,so jump on the sale bandwagon,while it lasts. If they discontinue the tire or our sizes , the prices you pay now will be a super bargain.

 

[Ron Hickey]

Re: What\'s up with the tire war?

I'll agree with Bill that the Pilot Sport is a better all-around tire. The MXX3's weren't awful in the rain -- definitely better than the Gen I XGT's. Back when the Vipers switched to the Pilot Sports (99, I think), all the road test numbers in the mags were unable to match the skidpad and slalom numbers they'd posted in the 97-98 cars on MXX3's. There was some speculation at that time on this board that the MXX3's were superior to the Sports in raw, dry-weather handling, although Michelin claimed that there was no drop-off. Our suspicions were confirmed at the One Lap of America competition that year, when a pair of Michelin engineers showed up in a Viper GTS -- on MXX3's, not Sports! Obviously they knew something. (They won, too!)

The decision to go with run-flats in the SRT/10 was dictated by the lack of room for a spare tire. And maybe some of the generally mediocre performance reported by the mags in their road tests of the 2003 Viper can be attributed to those run-flats. (Just a theory -- I have no proof.) Clearly, in a 2001 comparo test by MT with the Z06, Cobra R and Viper at Gingerman (in less than perfect conditions), the Viper and Z06 were at a tire disadvantage as compared to the Cobra R, which was running something close to race rubber.

The serious track guys will, as Bill says, be running the new Michelin track tire at Viper Days. The past couple of years, the MXX3's were tires of choice, as opposed to the Pilot Sports. I expect that track rats who run their new 2003 Vipers on-track will be looking for an alternative to the new Michelin run-flats.

Sean, the reason Dodge and Michelin switched to a less grippy dry-weather tire is that all this matters only at the edge of performance. The Sports were better in the rain and only marginally poorer in the dry, and that makes them a safer tire for everyday use -- and they ride quieter and better. Most Viper drivers are not going to notice the difference in handling. And some of those that value handling are putting on Kumho's.

Yes, the trip that Wednesday to Nashville was a little wet. Especially the last 150 miles in a steady rain. Yet we were still running 75-80 (some guys even faster. right, Mark?). I wouldn't have wanted to do any sudden evasive maneuvers, but everything was pretty stable.

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

Re: What\'s up with the tire war?

I have to think, or hope, that Michelin will still make a tire to fit the 99-02 cars which is not a run flat. Am I wrong? Having recently put 2 new rears on and buying 4 new ones now, I'm probably good into '06 on the fronts and '05 on the rears. I guess I could get a couple more rears and have a little more fun. How far out does one go?

Steve

 

[Hisser]

Re: What\'s up with the tire war?

I just cant see runflats on a viper. I was just hoping for a larger tire or softer rubber for better grip.