Who's GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

[Fadi]

Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

I was heading home in my Z06 this afternoon when a Viper GTS came flying by me and a friend in an NSX. It was Red, had a cage in it, sounded SICK, and had a license plate that read "GTSSSS".

Is it anybody on here? If so, your car was FAST. Good runs today..

 

[FE 065]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Not mine Was it a race or a fly by?

 

[GTSnake]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

I know who he is but I can't remember his name. I've seen him a few times in our club events. The last time I remember he had Belangers and a CAT back. Don't know if he has anymore mods since a few years ago.

 

[FE 065]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

His plate might be in the club directory next to his name.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

I saw a red GTS today as well. It was a very fast car too. Any guesses Tom? BTW your wheels look really good when you are moving. Since your plate is 1 less "S" could it of been you?

 

[GTSnake]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Nope, it wasn't me. There's another guy with a red GTS with one extra "S". I met him a few years back at the spring brunch.

 

[Casey]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Nope, it wasn't me. There's another guy with a red GTS with one extra "S". I met him a few years back at the spring brunch.

I knew it wasn't you, as you would have destroyed a stock Z!

 

[Fadi]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

I know who he is but I can't remember his name. I've seen him a few times in our club events. The last time I remember he had Belangers and a CAT back. Don't know if he has anymore mods since a few years ago.

Does he post on these boards?? Did it have a cage in it a few years ago when it only had headers and a cat-back?

I would love to find out what kind of power he was making when we raced today. It wasn't just headers and a cat-back though..

 

[Fadi]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Not mine Was it a race or a fly by?

It was a race. He flew by me to get the party started..

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

That car belongs to a friend of mine. It's a 97. He lives in Brighton. ...Not a member of the club the last couple years. In 2001, I believe he dynoed at 459HP/495TQ. The only mods on that car(as of a couple months ago) are Belanger headers and exhaust (no cats), Fidanza flywheel, tubes, and I think a [*****] airbox. It's a strong car!

Steve

...as a point of trivia, there is a picture in the Viper 1/4ly from back then of our cars all in his garage (3). We were down for a dyno day at Advanced Chassis Dyno.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

But Steve, everyone is a friend of yours! Do I know him?

 

[Fadi]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

You know, now that I think about it, maybe the car did 'only' have 459 rwhp. When I was in 3rd gear and got over one lane for him to get next to me so we can race, he just took off and caught me totally off guard, giving him a 1.5 car lead and a lot of momentum going into the race. So I guess it does make sense.

Nontheless, it was fun..

 

[lankhoss]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

I can see that. A car that flies by you like that gets a HUGE advantage.

I would have liked to have seen you two go at it from a "fair" race, as your horsepower is about equal. Did he have a passenger? If not, I'd think the weight of the two cars would have been pretty close, too.

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

But Steve, everyone is a friend of yours! Do I know him?

Pretty sure you do Ron. Bob Rollin. He lives on the west side of the GM Proving Grounds. He had a ZR1 before buying the Viper. He's more into bikes these days. Rumor has it that he has spun a circle or two in the Proving Grounds front parking lot. Come to think of it, I've been there with him

You know, now that I think about it, maybe the car did 'only' have 459 rwhp. When I was in 3rd gear and got over one lane for him to get next to me so we can race, he just took off and caught me totally off guard, giving him a 1.5 car lead and a lot of momentum going into the race. So I guess it does make sense.

Nontheless, it was fun..

......so even though he got the jump on you...what were the results?

Steve

 

[Fadi]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

[/QUOTE]

......so even though he got the jump on you...what were the results?

Steve

[/QUOTE]

Do you know how much faster a car must be (Z06 in this case) to completely stop another cars pull and reel it in (Viper in this case) AFTER it flew by you with lots of momentum?

Take a look at the video at the VERY beginning. You can clearly see that it looks like he was gonna run away from me, and that is because he flew by me and caugh me off guard. Right when I got on the gas, I completely stopped his pull.

Hell, for those that know the guy personally, ask him and he will tell you the same. Better yet, ask him to re-run with a even heads up start and we can capture it on video and repost the results..

 

[Dieselino]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Two of the guys I work with have red GTS's that are very fast. We work at DaimlerChrysler in Auburn hills. My one friend (who's car is forsale I might add) is red with the polished 18" 5 spokes. He has a Roe Supercharger, belanger headers, corsa exhaust and a bunch of other goodies. The other fast red GTS, is Ralph Gilles car. Im sure some of you might know who he is. He has black powder coated ACR wheels, on his car. He races his viper and there is alot of work done to it aswell.

 

[Fadi]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Two of the guys I work with have red GTS's that are very fast. We work at DaimlerChrysler in Auburn hills. My one friend (who's car is forsale I might add) is red with the polished 18" 5 spokes. He has a Roe Supercharger, belanger headers, corsa exhaust and a bunch of other goodies. The other fast red GTS, is Ralph Gilles car. Im sure some of you might know who he is. He has black powder coated ACR wheels, on his car. He races his viper and there is alot of work done to it aswell.

The car that I raced had the 18" 99+ style wheels on it. Does one of your friends have a GTS with "GTSSSS" license plate with a roll cage? I know it has already been said that the GTS I raced is a different car than your friends, but just thought I'd ask.

 

[Gerald Levin]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Why would someone with 459 HP and <500 TQ have a rollcage in his car? Getting it ready for a TC, SC or TT?

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

A roll cage is for the track. Stock power is plenty for the track.

We know who's car it was. It was not Gilles (I saw him Sunday afternoon) or Tom (saw him Sunday as well). Both east of I75.

So Fadi. How many times did you go at it or was it just the one time? Were you ever side by side at any point at an equal speed?

Note according to one of your Z cronnies you would even be able to pull me.

Btw I believe the GTS aero is better than the Z. Higher coefficient but lower area. Near equal top speed for the GTS with 60 less hp.

 

[GTSnake]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

I guess this forum doesn't mind discussions about street racing then. I thought this was verboten.

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



......so even though he got the jump on you...what were the results?

Steve


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Do you know how much faster a car must be (Z06 in this case) to completely stop another cars pull and reel it in (Viper in this case) AFTER it flew by you with lots of momentum?

Take a look at the video at the VERY beginning. You can clearly see that it looks like he was gonna run away from me, and that is because he flew by me and caugh me off guard. Right when I got on the gas, I completely stopped his pull.

Hell, for those that know the guy personally, ask him and he will tell you the same. Better yet, ask him to re-run with a even heads up start and we can capture it on video and repost the results..

Fadi,

I got an unsolicited e-mail from the guy this AM and subsequently called him.
His story is lot different from yours. Right below is his e-mail. Below that a few clarifications after I called him.



"Barb and I drove the Viper up to Saginaw today. Immediately upon
pulling up on US23 from Brighton, I came in behind a red NSX that was
lowered and had big rubber on it. In front of the NSX was a yellow Z06
with black wheels driven by a young guy with his buddy. It was an
opportunity I could not resist! I immediately passed in the right lane
to **** them in. We played tag all the way to Fenton, then got a little
more brave. There were some long openings in traffic so we let it rip.
I lead first, accelerating from around 70 to 130 or so. The Z06 was
right on my tail all the way to 130. We did this a couple more times
and I could not pull on him. Then we reversed positions and he
accelerated from 80 to nearly 150.. The exact same thing happened, I
was able to stay right on his tail and he did not pull from me at all to
150. We did this a couple more times (once I missed a gear) and the
result was the same. Once we were probably going over 150 but I did not
pay close attention to the speedo, Barb was hanging on to the door
however.

I was really surprised that we were so exactly matched. Neither car
could pull even a foot from the other car. I really expected the Z06 to
have some advantage in acceleration. The Z06 would really put it's nose
in the air when he put his foot down at 80 or so but he would not gain
any advantage. We ran back and forth all the way to the north side of
Flint, then he pulled off. The red NSX was probably 10 miles behind us."




On the run you state he came 'flying' by you... he said he did hit it before you and pulled a car or so. He doesn't remember flying by you. He said he saw you stuck to his right rear bumper for the duration of that run. Of course a Viper going to WOT in 3rd gear at 60 or so will move ahead quite 'briskly.' My car car will go from 60-90 in 3 seconds even. He also says you rode side by side for almost a mile dead even. His account of the 'fly by' would seem much more accurate given how "the rest of the story" transpired.

Steve

 

[Fadi]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



......so even though he got the jump on you...what were the results?

Steve


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Do you know how much faster a car must be (Z06 in this case) to completely stop another cars pull and reel it in (Viper in this case) AFTER it flew by you with lots of momentum?

Take a look at the video at the VERY beginning. You can clearly see that it looks like he was gonna run away from me, and that is because he flew by me and caugh me off guard. Right when I got on the gas, I completely stopped his pull.

Hell, for those that know the guy personally, ask him and he will tell you the same. Better yet, ask him to re-run with a even heads up start and we can capture it on video and repost the results..

Fadi,

I got an unsolicited e-mail from the guy this AM and subsequently called him.
His story is lot different from yours. Right below is his e-mail. Below that a few clarifications after I called him.



"Barb and I drove the Viper up to Saginaw today. Immediately upon
pulling up on US23 from Brighton, I came in behind a red NSX that was
lowered and had big rubber on it. In front of the NSX was a yellow Z06
with black wheels driven by a young guy with his buddy. It was an
opportunity I could not resist! I immediately passed in the right lane
to **** them in. We played tag all the way to Fenton, then got a little
more brave. There were some long openings in traffic so we let it rip.
I lead first, accelerating from around 70 to 130 or so. The Z06 was
right on my tail all the way to 130. We did this a couple more times
and I could not pull on him. Then we reversed positions and he
accelerated from 80 to nearly 150.. The exact same thing happened, I
was able to stay right on his tail and he did not pull from me at all to
150. We did this a couple more times (once I missed a gear) and the
result was the same. Once we were probably going over 150 but I did not
pay close attention to the speedo, Barb was hanging on to the door
however.

I was really surprised that we were so exactly matched. Neither car
could pull even a foot from the other car. I really expected the Z06 to
have some advantage in acceleration. The Z06 would really put it's nose
in the air when he put his foot down at 80 or so but he would not gain
any advantage. We ran back and forth all the way to the north side of
Flint, then he pulled off. The red NSX was probably 10 miles behind us."




On the run you state he came 'flying' by you... he said he did hit it before you and pulled a car or so. He doesn't remember flying by you. He said he saw you stuck to his right rear bumper for the duration of that run. Of course a Viper going to WOT in 3rd gear at 60 or so will move ahead quite 'briskly.' My car car will go from 60-90 in 3 seconds even. He also says you rode side by side for almost a mile dead even. His account of the 'fly by' would seem much more accurate given how "the rest of the story" transpired.

Steve

Steve, thanks for the info.

As you can see from the video, at the very beginning, it looked like he was going to run away from me. This was becasue he did, like stated, get on the throttle before me while passing me. This gave him a lot of momentum and a huge advantage. His e mail to you is true, and it is valid. But, all I am saying is that had we gotten even starts, I would have pulled on him. When I was behind him, and he had started to accelerate, I actually had to let off the gas a little bit because I was going to rear end him. This is why it seemed like I was stuck on his bumper (I don't want to rear end the guy). I am just stating the facts.

If he wants to go out and play once more and get more accurate measures on video, please let him know that I would love to meet up with him again. It is 60* today, and it is going to be nice out all week.

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

...how do you explain his comments about riding side by side for a mile--even--no advantage ......and that you couldn't pull him when you were in front?

As he stated, he was a little surprised himself.

Steve

 

[Fadi]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

So Fadi. How many times did you go at it or was it just the one time? Were you ever side by side at any point at an equal speed?

Note according to one of your Z cronnies you would even be able to pull me.

Btw I believe the GTS aero is better than the Z. Higher coefficient but lower area. Near equal top speed for the GTS with 60 less hp.

No, we never got a clean race in. I was either behind him accelerating in the same lane right behind him, or I was in front of him (this only happend once) and he would just go without notice (which is what happend, like he stated, and got the momentum and the go) and have me play catch up (like the video shows)

Is that frontal area on the GTS the same as the SRT-10? If so, then yes, it does indeed have slightly better aero than the Z06.

No, I wouldn't be able to pull you. You are pushing 600+ rwhp. But, give me about 50 less rwhp than whatever you have and I would be able to pull on you..

 

[Fadi]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

...how do you explain his comments about riding side by side for a mile--even--no advantage ......and that you couldn't pull him when you were in front?

As he stated, he was a little surprised himself.

Steve

We NEVER raced side by side, evenly, for a mile. The races that all took place were either me right behind him accelerating in the same lane, or, me right in front of him, getting over a lane for him to come side by side, but him just going without given notice (This is the race in the video and was the ONLY time we raced when I was in front)

Think about it. If he is right in front of me (which was the majority of the races), how am I supposed to predict when he is going to take off? I had to listen very carefully to when his exhaust note would get loud in order to get on the throttle. I would guess that I was about 2 secs late in throttle response when he was in front of me and decided to just take off spontaneously, yet, like he stated, I was still on his bumper and he was never able to pull away (I even had to let off a few times actually to not rear end him). Momentum is HUGE, and he had it as an advantage everytime.

Like I said, I am more than willing to race again and get the runs on video with even take offs, side by side. Win or lose. Let him know that if he is available, I am willing to play. This week is supposed to be very nice out, with a few 60+ degree days out.

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Like I said, I am more than willing to race again and get the runs on video with even take offs, side by side. Win or lose. Let him know that if he is available, I am willing to play. This week is supposed to be very nice out, with a few 60+ degree days out.

I e-mailed him this thread. I don't really think he cares about lining up with you again...win or lose....but I could be wrong. It was a spontaneous thing for him on one of the last drives of the year. He was surprised to keep up as well as he did. He never once said he beat you--just that he thought the runs were pretty even. That being said, your video to me is somewhat inconclusive to the fact that "you were reeling him in." From all the ZO6 talk floating around these days, you'd think a new ZO6 would literally smoke a 10 year old Viper with exhaust mods only. Didn't happen. I've known Bob for over 6 years... and while you are stating the event as you remember it, I don't know you at all. Unless he tells me any different, it will be his version I take to the bank.

Steve

BTW...my car is 60-90 in 3 seconds -- pushing 4100 pounds Perhaps we'll meet someday, although not likely as I'm 500 miles from there.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

If each time you guys were behind the other car then the aero benefit would help the car behind stay right behind. Side by side would eliminate the draft effect.

Did both cars have 2 people? If you do the power to weight of both with about 400 lbs added (people + fuel) you will find them fairly close (with the Z better by about .4 lb/hp). Add in the slight aero advantage for the viper and you have a close comparison with the difference being which car is closest to optimizing the power band. 80 to 150 is pretty close to the optimum for the viper (3rd and 4th gears).

 

[Fadi]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Like I said, I am more than willing to race again and get the runs on video with even take offs, side by side. Win or lose. Let him know that if he is available, I am willing to play. This week is supposed to be very nice out, with a few 60+ degree days out.

I e-mailed him this thread. I don't really think he cares about lining up with you again...win or lose....but I could be wrong. It was a spontaneous thing for him on one of the last drives of the year. He was surprised to keep up as well as he did. He never once said he beat you--just that he thought the runs were pretty even. That being said, your video to me is somewhat inconclusive to the fact that "you were reeling him in." From all the ZO6 talk floating around these days, you'd think a new ZO6 would literally smoke a 10 year old Viper with exhaust mods only. Didn't happen. I've known Bob for over 6 years... and while you are stating the event as you remember it, I don't know you at all. Unless he tells me any different, it will be his version I take to the bank.

Steve

BTW...my car is 60-90 in 3 seconds -- pushing 4100 pounds Perhaps we'll meet someday, although not likely as I'm 500 miles from there.

And I never said I won. Technically, he did because he was ahead, but, what I did say was the circumstances of the race and that I was reeling him in, which I was and is evident in the video.

Ron, we both had passengers in our cars. Given that we have a side by side race with no disadvantage to either car and even take offs, I think the Z06 would pull significantly.

3450 / 459 = 7.5 lb/hp
3132 / 460 = 6.8 lb/hp

If he doesn't want to race again, that is ok. The car ran well, and it was fast. I admit that. But, I hope that you guys realize how much it takes for one car to overcome the hit and the momentum of another car and to actually start reeling it in, which was the case in our race(s).

I had fun..

p.s.- and lets not make it sound like the Z06 isn't as good as it is hyped up to be when it comes to performance just because this is a 10 yr old car. It is a 10 yr old car with 60 extra rwhp over stock putting it right around the 540 bhp mark.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Fadi, you did not add the 400 lbs to each. The more you add the closer they become. I also note you state 460 RWHP. That is one of the strongest Z06 I have heard. Also at 130 mph the vette may be at an aero loss of 20 to 30 hp versus the GTS (60 hp at near 200). Differences in dynos and how each performs at temps lower than standard (50 degree day Sunday) could effect the result as well (since Vipers are notoriously rich lower temps may be more beneficial for them).

 

[Casey]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

The Viper drove past you to play cat and mouse. Meaning he passed you a bit, then got off of it until you decided to hit it. Then once again he hit it.

So it wasn't like he tried to do a ricer flyby and you simply pulled him in.
That's how I understand it.
I do not believe you overcame the HIT as you put it. He was just playing around, let off until you wanted to hit it, and then he didn't let you pass him!

The video only shows that one part, which didn't show any advantage. Where the rest of the car & mouse that was going on?