'94 Slow to start...suggestions?

[randy lindberg]

My '94 has always been a slow starter, and I don't know if this is normal or not. I bought the car with 15k and now have a little over 20k miles, but it has always sounded the same. Someone told me it almost sounds like an older starter that would need "shimmed". I don't know if they're adjustable or not. I'm thinking it is losing fuel pressure when it sits for a while (minutes, not months) and the fuel pump needs to re-pressurize the lines. Sometimes it will start, sputter, and stall. Once it's running, though, there seems to be no problem. I got new plugs and wires and hope to get them changed this weekend, but I doubt that's the problem. Any thoughts?

 

[JPL]

How old is your battery and how often do you start your car? I've noticed that if mine sits for a while it sputters a little, I solved this by hooking up a battery tender if I know it's going to sit awhile. With a fully charged battery it seems to fire up quicker and just run better.

 

[randy lindberg]

I put a new battery in this spring. Not the best one out there, but it's only a few months old.

 

[dave6666]

I would ensure that your battery is rated at the needed CCA. That's a big engine to spin.

Also, I've heard it mentioned to turn the key to "on" to prime the pump for it's 1-2 second stint, then back to "off" and then "on" and start the car.

 

[randy lindberg]

I don't know if this would matter, but would a higher CCA battery make any difference in the speed of the starter? The starter doesn't seem to slow when turning the engine, it just takes 4 or 5 seconds to get it to start. I've done the fuel prime idea with the key before and it doesn't seem to make any difference. Anyone have a sound clip of their gen 1 on how it sounds to start? I live in the boonies, and don't know anyone who has one!

 

[dave6666]

I don't know if this would matter, but would a higher CCA battery make any difference in the speed of the starter? The starter doesn't seem to slow when turning the engine, it just takes 4 or 5 seconds to get it to start. I've done the fuel prime idea with the key before and it doesn't seem to make any difference. Anyone have a sound clip of their gen 1 on how it sounds to start? I live in the boonies, and don't know anyone who has one!

It is not necessarily the speed of your starter in RPM's, but the load on the battery during cranking and the resulting drop in volts during cranking. The car needs an optimal voltage to run everything else when cranking, and an inadequate battery may not be providing that.

 

[randy lindberg]

Any suggestions on a proper battery? I can check my service manual on Chrysler reqs, but is there anything better?

 

[jasontiff]

My '93 used to turn and turn and turn and eventually start, until I was told that the fuel pump may not prime enough. So, I'll turn the key in the ignition to prime the pump 3 times before letting the engine turns over, and it starts right up every time.

I was told this was a common with the early Vipers. It doesn't quite sound like you're experiencing the same problem, but you may try that method anyway.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Aside from the battery insights mentioned above...you may also want to consider the possibility that you are having a "leak down" of your fuel pressure as you also have suspected. Try cycling the key on (but do not start) and off 3 times...then go to full start on ignition and see if your Viper starts more "normally". If it does, it is pointing toward a fuel pressure problem...noting that our 95 had it's fuel pump replaced for this issue in 1998 (and MANY other Gen I owners have reported the same problem).

You can also measure the fuel pressure easily if you have a gauge...expect about 55-60 psi by my memory.
IMPORTANT READING...WEIGH THE OPTIONS:
http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-g...-cranks-3-4-times-before-fires-up-normal.html
http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/577003-fuel-pump-module-625-00-a.html
http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-g...s-shipping-out-no-more-crank-crank-crank.html

 

[dave6666]

Any suggestions on a proper battery? I can check my service manual on Chrysler reqs, but is there anything better?

Interstate Batteries is a Texas company...

Interstate Batteries - Every Battery for Every Need

A lot of people like Die Hards from Sears.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

It'll always crank longer than other engines because it's an odd-fire V10. The system needs at least one entire engine revolution to know where TDC for #1 is.

If you do the key on-off-on trick and it doesn't seem to start quicker, try this. Key on-off-on and then push the stem in the fuel system relief valve (protect your eyes, arms, and wrap a towel around the area.) This will double check that you have indeed built up pressure. An empty fuel line may simply require more key-on-off than the system allows. I believe Wizard Tator once said that the trick is only good for 3 times?

You can test whether the current (pun) battery is a weak link by jumping it and noticing whether it starts any quicker or better. I've used a next size smaller battery in my 94 (save weight for autocrossing) and am into my 4th year, so anecdotally I don't think it is this.

The fuel pump will recover very quickly due to the minimal fuel requirement at idle, so my 0.02 is that once it starts, it should stay running.

Take a squirt gun or plant mister and spray the spark plug area while the engine is running. If you start to hear clicky noises, you have a bad wire or boot and the spark is arcing to ground. At night you might be able to see the arc.

Let us know how it turns out.

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Interstate Batteries is a Texas company...

Interstate Batteries - Every Battery for Every Need

A lot of people like Die Hards from Sears.

Both very good options. A very bad option is Optima. I wouldn't trust an Optima battery to power my TV remote. I have an Interstate in my DD and its been a great battery!

 

[randy lindberg]

All very good ideas! I had to jump start the car just a few weeks back (left the lights on....novice) and didn't notice any difference. "Check valves shipping out"? Would a separate valve in the line keep my fuel pressure up??? would this cause any problems? Car does run fine once it gets started, it's just getting there that concerns me. Honestly, every time I'm out in the car with someone they sort've get that raised eyebrow look like "is it ever gonna start?". Then, I reel ashamed and drive them incredibly fast to make them forget all about it...everybody wins!

 

[dave6666]

Getting a jump start is like trying to start your car with half a battery. Yours is dead, and the donor car is now running 2 vehicles.

Not a good comparison you just made.

 

[ViperJay]

does it turn slow and then start or fast then start. if slow, i has to be the battery. the engine should turn 2 times in one second.

 

[randy lindberg]

I would say turns fast then starts. It doesn't seem to "wind up" or anything, but I'm not sure how it's supposed to sound. It takes a good 4-5 seconds to get running, and once it actually starts firing it will usually sputter, and once and a while stall. Next turn, though, she starts right up. Maybe this is completely normal and I'm just paranoid...or picky.

 

[dave6666]

Maybe this is completely normal and I'm just paranoid...or picky.

How would describe the overall engine related maintenance on your car? There are a bunch of little things that accumulate over time that should be done. Especially since 1994. That may or may not have been done, and may or may not make a difference with this issue.

 

[randy lindberg]

It turns fast and then starts...it just turns fast for a few seconds.

 

[randy lindberg]

I believe the car is pretty much stock with 20k miles. I bought it after it had been hit in the front. Mechanically everything ran and the only part mechanical needing replaced was the oil cooler. That being said, I dont't think this is related but you never know. The car sat for at least 5-years before I got it (with 15k miles) and I've been driving it about a 2 years. My evap purge selonoid is either malfunctionsing or has a loose connection but that's the only trouble code...also I think unrelated but once again, you never know. I replaced the fuel filter before we even started the car for fear of bad gas and ran injector cleaner through. I just got new plugs and wires but haven't gotten them on yet. What other maintenance issues should I be concerned about?

 

[SNKEBIT]

If those plug wires are original, that's a big problem.

 

[Phil Lee 94 red RT]

fuel pump!!!!!!!!!

 

[randy lindberg]

So is it complete fuel pump replacement, or repair? Should I be concerned about catastrophic Failure!....or just deal with long cranking?

 

[DylanGTS]

I just replaced the fuel pump in my '96 GTS. It had the same symptoms that you listed; car will crank but for a long time before starting. This is due to a faulty check valve in the fuel pump. After replacing the fuel pump my car starts quickly with no issues.

Oh and before I forget, thank you Chuck Tator for the fuel pump / help!

 

[SNKEBIT]

You can buy just the fuel pressure regulator for the gen.1 Don't need the whole fuel pump assy.

 

[dave6666]

FYI...

eBay Motors: New Electric Fuel Pump:1992-95 Dodge Viper (item 150286517868 end time Aug-29-08 15:58:41 PDT)

 

[randy lindberg]

I guess you have to drop out the gas tank, so it will probably be a winter project. I've heard some haveactually cut out the trunk for easier access in the future. Has anyone done this instead of dropping the tank out?

 

[SNKEBIT]

There is a panel in the trunk you drill the rivets out and slide the tank out through the trunk.

 

[dave6666]

Not that anyone would want to do a mod like this, but if someone didn't want to yank their tank out, what's to prevent installing an aftermarket self priming pump in the fuel line some where, leaving the stock pump as simply a pickup?

I know, maybe a dumb idea, but it also might work. I've seen cheesier stuff done...

 

[randy lindberg]

I'm curious on that idea too. Maybe just as easy to change the fuel regulator...don't know?