ABS or non for a newbie

[cali-car-guy]

I was wondering if a newbie should by a non ABS Viper GTS? Im a skilled driver but no one is that skilled in this beast
I was also wondering the specifics of the stoping power and how controlable the car is with and without the ABS system.
sorry if this is a dumb question I just really want to know what Im getting myself into with the car.
Jlew

 

[dave6666]

Are you planning on tracking the car, drag racing it, or just street use?

 

[Steve-Indy]

It's a good question, in my opinion, as it shows respect for a car that demands it.

Honestly, I like the ABS, but I have no plans to get rid of our non-ABS Vipers...noting that ours are street driven.

In my experience, the gas pedal causes far more problems than the brakes.

If, as Dave has inquired, you plan to track the car, I think you will find the ABS an advantage while you are getting familiar with the car as well as when you encounter slick surfaces.

 

[Martin]

My personal experience with non-ABS cars has been good - but there have been times where ABS would have been great. Sometimes things just happen and you really need to get on the brakes hard, and there just isn't any way to control the brakes as well as the computer does. An example the other day was an idiot who decided to do a U-turn in front of me, behind a blind turn, across double-yellow lines. Thank god I was in my Jeep and not the Viper. The Jeep has Stillen brakes all around and ABS - I hit the brakes so hard that everything in the back of the Jeep migrated up into the front and we felt like our eyeballs were going to pop out. I stopped about five inches from broadsiding the guy - and I'm almost positive my GTS would have been toast because all four tires would have been locked up. That was one case where ABS saved the day.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

The stock non-ABS brake system is very front-biased and enthusiastic driving (autocross), sudden street manuever (kids playing or get cut off in traffic) or high speed event (HDPE) will eventually result in front wheel lock ups and subsequent flat spots. If you learn to drive to accomodate the capability of the front calipers, it limits the fun somewhat and leads to front brake fluid boiling at track events.

For non-ABS cars there are big brake kits to install much larger rear calipers at some expense and also a less expensive OEM resized brake. Both upgrades perform well and you can get over 1 G braking vs. the stock 0.8 G deceleration. It really depends on how much you want to spend and how important the looks are because looks and expense are strongly correlated. Of course, non-ABS cars can't match ABS in braking while turning or uneven grip - you asked the question but must already know this.

In one sense, non-ABS is easy to drive since you can't loop the car even if you try! And all the occupant safety restraints (seat belts, air bags, crush structure, impact panels) are designed for frontal impact, so you will hit that tree head on and be fine. I'm making fun, of course, because like Steve said, the "taming" part is how you handle the right pedal.

 

[cali-car-guy]

Awesome thanks for the response guys. You guys are bad-ass
Im looking to spend about 35k for a GTYS. What milage restriction should I place on my Viper purchase? (10k-60k?)
Jlew

 

[cali-car-guy]

Oh yeah, I do not plan on tracking the car.

 

[dave6666]

Oh yeah, I do not plan on tracking the car.

Then IMO I would take the computerized braking enhancement as an item to be had. As has been said, the ABS system does things you can not do as a human.

On my '01 I have on several occasions from *** speeds hit the brakes hard enough to activate the ABS - you can feel it pulsing. I can only imagine what the result would have been without it.

So what was the results with ABS you might ask? Smooth and straight.

 

[eucharistos]

I can only imagine what the result would have been without it.

only 2 options in those situations dave,



ticket or jail



thank you officer, may i have another







op- abs for street as stated above

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

My personal experience with non-ABS cars has been good - but there have been times where ABS would have been great. Sometimes things just happen and you really need to get on the brakes hard, and there just isn't any way to control the brakes as well as the computer does. An example the other day was an idiot who decided to do a U-turn in front of me, behind a blind turn, across double-yellow lines. Thank god I was in my Jeep and not the Viper. The Jeep has Stillen brakes all around and ABS - I hit the brakes so hard that everything in the back of the Jeep migrated up into the front and we felt like our eyeballs were going to pop out. I stopped about five inches from broadsiding the guy - and I'm almost positive my GTS would have been toast because all four tires would have been locked up. That was one case where ABS saved the day.

Your Jeep outbrakes your Viper?

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I was wondering if a newbie should by a non ABS Viper GTS? Im a skilled driver but no one is that skilled in this beast
I was also wondering the specifics of the stoping power and how controlable the car is with and without the ABS system.
sorry if this is a dumb question I just really want to know what Im getting myself into with the car.
Jlew

Don't tailgate or drive like an idiot and you'll be fine.

 

[eucharistos]

Don't tailgate or drive like an idiot and you'll be fine.

agree,

when i was shopping for my viper, i remember reading about the bad things our wide tires (mostly ps1's then) and standing water would do, and i wanted to drive often, so went w/ an abs car. don't think i have ever needed abs (yet) as ps2's seem to do a good job of channeling water

 

[Martin]

Your Jeep outbrakes your Viper?

In a situation where I'm going around a blind corner on a rather 'dirty' two-lane canyon road at the usual speeds, I see a car stopped broadside in front of me where there should never be a car, and I panic brake - you betcha. But, keep in mind this isn't your uncle's Jeep - it's got almost as much HP as the Viper, generally modded to heck, and it's got an extremely upgraded braking system (Stillen slotted rotors all around, metal matrix pads, stainless lines, Motul 600, etc.). This Jeep will stop hard enough for you to get bruises on your torso from the seatbelts. I've got big-ass meats on the car, and the brakes are strong enough to chirp the tires on good clean asphalt when the ABS is engaging.

In a similar situation, the GTS tires would have locked up and once they lock up, it's like trying to stop on ice. With only a second between me and the dumb-ass T-bone stopped in front of me, the GTS would have been toast - I literally only had enough time to get my foot from the gas pedal to the brake pedal and stomp as hard as I could. Absolutely no time to try and threshold brake.

 

[dave6666]

...keep in mind this isn't your uncle's Jeep - it's got almost as much HP as the Viper, generally modded to heck...

You're one of those <insert word here> that I mess with on the highway and end up going ***...?

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

In a situation where I'm going around a blind corner on a rather 'dirty' two-lane canyon road at the usual speeds, I see a car stopped broadside in front of me where there should never be a car, and I panic brake - you betcha. But, keep in mind this isn't your uncle's Jeep - it's got almost as much HP as the Viper, generally modded to heck, and it's got an extremely upgraded braking system (Stillen slotted rotors all around, metal matrix pads, stainless lines, Motul 600, etc.). This Jeep will stop hard enough for you to get bruises on your torso from the seatbelts. I've got big-ass meats on the car, and the brakes are strong enough to chirp the tires on good clean asphalt when the ABS is engaging.

In a similar situation, the GTS tires would have locked up and once they lock up, it's like trying to stop on ice. With only a second between me and the dumb-ass T-bone stopped in front of me, the GTS would have been toast - I literally only had enough time to get my foot from the gas pedal to the brake pedal and stomp as hard as I could. Absolutely no time to try and threshold brake.

4100lb Jeep vs a 3400lb Viper? I suppose if the road was really, really dusty then maybe.

 

[gb66gth]

Go ABS, those tires are waaay too expensive to flat-spot.

 

[Martin]

You're one of those <insert word here> that I mess with on the highway and end up going ***...?

Yeah, there are also a lot of Mustang/Camaro guys that have been pretty surprised at that car. For a daily driver, for towing, and for general screwing around offroad, it's a blast and fairly bullet proof.

 

[Martin]

4100lb Jeep vs a 3400lb Viper? I suppose if the road was really, really dusty then maybe.

I guess it all comes down to whether the tires are locked or not - the GTS brakes great as long as the wheels are turning. In my experience, when the tires lock up, it's an out of control freight train until I've gotten them back to the threshold of adhesion. In a panic situation, it can be real scary. Never crashed anything yet (knock on wood) but it's been close...

 

[Flying Viper]

01 and newer, without a doubt. ABS all the way.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Awesome thanks for the response guys. You guys are bad-ass
Im looking to spend about 35k for a GTYS. What milage restriction should I place on my Viper purchase? (10k-60k?)
Jlew

Ummm.... sticker shock.

If the classifieds are any indication you will be about $10K short of getting an ABS car. Or you could shop well for an older car and have a few bucks for appropriate upgrades that many here will be happy to help you choose! Hey, most of us "survived" a non-ABS car.

 

[Red Snake]

Many of the non-ABS Vipers have upgraded packages on them already (Big Brake Dave's or SRT Brakes, drilled/slotted rotors, etc). Any of the upgrade packages will be a signifcant improvement over stock.

I personally wouldn't let the brake package determine weather or not I purchased a car that I like otherwise. It's real easy to upgrade or find a car that is already upgraded.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Hey, most of us "survived" a non-ABS car.

How did we ever do it? Some of us with TWO non-ABS Vipers, one even tracked! Must've been lucky for the first 160,000 miles.

 

[dave6666]

...and have a few bucks for appropriate upgrades that many here will be happy to help you choose!

I've heard of this 40mm rear upgrade that is near 1/5 the cost of other braking performance packages. Is that an appropriate upgrade you refer to?

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Go ABS, those tires are waaay too expensive to flat-spot.

THAT is the best reason to get ABS. The safety factor is largely misguided.

 

[NorthernSnake]

I sure non ABS cars are fine...but when it came time to buy my own i didnt like the idea of a full lock up flat spotting panic stop in a no ABS car. I have tons of dear and elk and other critters that bolt out on the highway around here and good stabs on the breaks are common.

My car is only street driven (for now) and i knew that having a ABS car meant not having forged internals...but i thought about it and it seemed to me that if i was going to spend the $$$ involved in a full TT system that adding forged internals would be easier than adding ABS (i dont know if you even can add ABS to a non ABS car). So i insisted on a 2001 or 2002 GTS with ABS.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

I've heard of this 40mm rear upgrade that is near 1/5 the cost of other braking performance packages. Is that an appropriate upgrade you refer to?

Well, that is one example... Comes with handsome brake covers and choice of black or red, too.

Cost is just a drop in the bucket so it lets VCA members suggest so many other upgrades as well!

 

[eucharistos]

I've heard of this 40mm rear upgrade that is near 1/5 the cost of other braking performance packages. Is that an appropriate upgrade you refer to?

if i needed them i'd do them

 

[dave6666]

if i needed them i'd do them

Why don't you need them? Watcha got?

 

[cali-car-guy]

Do any of you guys have issues with the sills being too hot? If so is it overkill to install highflow cats and heatshielding in the side sill lining? Does this solve the problem? I would like to go with the least expensive option. Ive heard from numberous sources that heat can be an issue with the sills. (which is expected anytime a car has exhaust components near a human interaction area)
JLew

 

[sdaddy]

If you need ABS to drive a high performance car, you also need traction control, and that eliminates the Viper from consideration. Both are available on a nice Corvette nanny car and that is the right choice for some people.