Crispy Snake anyone?

[AHudson777]

My 2000 GTS is a very literal 'hot' rod. No, it didn't catch fire or melt, but in Alabama, 'melting' is an actual season of the year. As temps climb outside, my 'stock' car is not helping the temps inside.

Yes, this is another 'side sill/exhaust' post. If you find you're beccoming violent at the thought, step away from the keyboard!

My goals are three-fold 1) Drop sill temps and 2) Add a little better exhaust note. I truly hate loud. I know, kick me out of the club. My other cars are loud enough, I promise. The Viper is a car that I'd like to continue taking my wife to dinner without ear plugs. 3) Budget under $1500. The more 'under' the better me like it.

And YES INDEED I have searched, read, researched 'til all I see when going to sleep are high flow cats all saying "PICK ME PICK ME!"

I digress.

I cut vents in the front of my sill area, helped a lot, but I still get 'too hot to touch' temps right before the cat, after the bend or the 'normal' spot. Pulled my side sills again and noticed:

* Factory heat wrap is very charred at this area and
* I hate my stock cats guts. Too cramped, too big, too hot.

I've narrowed my options to high-flow cats (Roe or RT or other - cast your votes now!) and the rest pretty much stock.

I've searched this forum for Magna Flow cats, but can't find THE one chosen. My shop has this stuff coming out of their ears and swears they can find one that 'fits'. Wondered why the MagnaFlow cats aren't mentioned much on this forum.

Far as sill heat, I'm going to rely on the hf cats and I DO have the Roe insultation to wrap (read all the pros and cons) and might call my Dodge dealer (still in business! Whoohoo!) about replacement heat shields.

I appreciate ANY input here folks. Thank you all for your patience on putting up with another exhaust thread.

 

[uvbnbit]

How's the engine temps in that 'bama heat?
Cats are the issue. I removed mine, and interior heat went away. But, with that comes louder headbang, exhaust fumes more noticeable crazy2. Well w/i your budget . I don't know if anyone has tried a different insulation though.

Next...

 

[dave6666]

Did you see all the sill venting that I did? That thread?

Also, replacement heat shields come complete with sills from the dealer. There are however some Inconel ones made that are available separately. You might contact your favorite used parts dealer for some good used if OE is what you have to have.

Oh... I have RT ceramic cats. So one vote for RT.

 

[Sweet Ride]

I say dump the cats all together. Get some Aluminized Heat Barrier Cloth and some adhesive and line the inside of your sills with it. Together they should drop the temps significantly.

There are bound to be many opinions on this topic and I'm sure others will chime in momentarily...

 

[AHudson777]

Wow, I barely hit 'submit' before you quick people answered! Engine temps are fine (within the rather warm 'range' says Dodge). Yes, Dave, I've read your 'ice cube machine' posts, studied the pics, even considered the fiberglass option... and EVEN the 'cut louvers in aluminum' option. Then I snapped out of it.

Thanks SweetRide, but burning eyes and too much loudness would preclude my elimination of the cat altogether. Though I totally understand why many choose that route.

Okay, a vote for RT. But what about Magnaflows? ANYONE ever do a MF cat? (REGARDLESS OF THE ABBREVIATION, STICK TO THE TOPIC!!!)

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Another vote for cutting your cats off and

a. head to the recycling yard
b. throw them in your garage w/any other crap you never plan on using again
c. throw them in the neighbor's garbage can so he gets fined if the garbagemen report finding them

Just don't add headers and cut the muffler off as well. I've been told that makes a car very loud and obnoxious by the AL/TN VCA President

 

[Sweet Ride]

Wow, I barely hit 'submit' before you quick people answered! Engine temps are fine (within the rather warm 'range' says Dodge). Yes, Dave, I've read your 'ice cube machine' posts, studied the pics, even considered the fiberglass option... and EVEN the 'cut louvers in aluminum' option. Then I snapped out of it.

Thanks SweetRide, but burning eyes and too much loudness would preclude my elimination of the cat altogether. Though I totally understand why many choose that route.

Okay, a vote for RT. But what about Magnaflows? ANYONE ever do a MF cat? (REGARDLESS OF THE ABBREVIATION, STICK TO THE TOPIC!!!)

If your exhaust is stock from the cats back I don't think it would get too much louder.

I have two MF'ing cats on my car now and as soon as my O2 sims show up they are going in the recycle bin at someone else's house...

 

[ViperGeorge]

I went with the RT cats and Corsa, no heat problem and the sound isn't too loud.

 

[AHudson777]

I have two MF'ing cats on my car now and as soon as my O2 sims show up they are going in the recycle bin at someone else's house...

Were those MFers any good? (Sound, heat, etc.) Or are you just dying to get louder/start neighborhood sqauabble on many levels?

Another vote for cutting your cats off and

a. head to the recycling yard
b. throw them in your garage w/any other crap you never plan on using again
c. throw them in the neighbor's garbage can so he gets fined if the garbagemen report finding them

Item B is hilarious. You've apparently been to my house. By the way, the little blondie in your avatar wearing a brownish 'hint' of a bathing suit called and said she wanted to be in my Avatar instead. Hope that's not a problem.

I went with the RT cats and Corsa, no heat problem and the sound isn't too loud.

Is yours a full 3" system? The Corsa puts it out of my price range, but the BB/RT version seems VERY reasonably priced and I seem to remember some favorable comments there. I could be tempted...

Dave6666, I found many Googlings for "Inconel" but who/where is it available for Vipers, or is that a do-it-yourself type thing? A burgeoning business idea for SOMEONE if it's not commercially cut for the Viper world.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Car is supercharged so I went with the smaller diameter cats and Corsa so as not to reduce the boost on car. Larger systems can do that. Got the whole setup from Jon B. at Parts Rack. He's a good source to call.

 

[dave6666]

Inconel here...

DodgeViper

 

[RTTTTed]

Car is supercharged so I went with the smaller diameter cats and Corsa so as not to reduce the boost on car. Larger systems can do that. Got the whole setup from Jon B. at Parts Rack. He's a good source to call.

Interesting idea. Boost/pressure isn't where the power comes from, it's the extra volume/fuelair. You could get higher boost levels by restricting the exhaust even more, but that's a power loss.

Open exhaust is the highest output for power.

Ted

 

[99 R/T 10]

Another Bama boy . Cut the cats, I did and it made the car MUCH cooler inside. Replace them with either a 4" dynomax or glasspack. Leave the other mufflers in place, you should be happy. Where in Alabama are ya?

 

[AHudson777]

Another Bama boy . Cut the cats, I did and it made the car MUCH cooler inside. Replace them with either a 4" dynomax or glasspack. Leave the other mufflers in place, you should be happy. Where in Alabama are ya?

Heya man, I'm just up the road in Montgomery.

I keep hearing, "Cut the cats!" You bunch of teary-eyed, over-polluting, noise makers! Honestly, how much NOISE did the 'no cat' but dynomax add to your car? Do you still have eardrums?

 

[Sweet Ride]

Were those MFers any good? (Sound, heat, etc.) Or are you just dying to get louder/start neighborhood sqauabble on many levels?

Honestly I have no idea what kind of cats were put on this car. I have an invoice from the previous owner that shows "High Flow Cats" were installed. Having had the side sills off, they look like something that came of a Honda Civic. It's cheesy to say the least.

Noise? Not overly concerned about that. The car makes quite a raucous already. Dumping the cats should lower my interior temps which is #1 on my list of reasons to do it.

 

[99 R/T 10]

Heya man, I'm just up the road in Montgomery.

I keep hearing, "Cut the cats!" You bunch of teary-eyed, over-polluting, noise makers! Honestly, how much NOISE did the 'no cat' but dynomax add to your car? Do you still have eardrums?

Actually it's not bad at all, but does get "mean" at WOT Come on down this weekend and listen for yourself. I'm stuck at the house due to my many "honey-dos"

 

[RTTTTed]

Cat removal usually results in less C02 pollution. Also saves gas mileage and NO cats means no rare "bad" metals in your exhaust.

My 98 GTS had Roe hiflows and a Random Tech catback. Car idled louder, but cruised quietly (great for 2 thousand mile trips) and WOT probably about stock decibels while sounding much more pleasant to the ears. Being a Gen 2 means the exhaust exits at the rear so noise isn't much of an issue anyway. This vid is 8psi boost, stock headers, Roe Hiflows and Catback.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ioq41bZFxc[/media]

Here's 10 psi Corsa, headers and No cats. This is loud, except cruising speed when it's quiet. Most of this vid is at part throttle.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hehAZeGAKiE[/media]

Ted

 

[ViperGeorge]

RTTTTed, Dan at DC performance warned me before I went with the system that a boosted car needs some pressure. He said that they dyno'd blown cars and they actually lost power with headers added. Both he and Jon B. advised to stay with stock manifolds and the smaller versions of the Random Tech and Corsa stuff. Apparently the extra fuel/air blows out the exhaust valve when the exhaust system is wide open. Not sure how much valve overlap the Viper cam has but I took their advice. Car did lean out by the way. Also something they said would happen. Not sure if it matters but my car has a Paxton centrifigal not a Roe positive displacement setup.

 

[RTTTTed]

To each his own I guess. Low hp?

I never heard of anyone losing hp to headers, except the Bleangers 5-2-1 when the pickles are left installed. Normally there's 20hp gain.

Given a choice lower boost with higher volume will make more power because there is less heat with less compression/boost, therefor less detonation.

I really want to add headers and decent exhaust to my stock Hemi Ram because then it would be close to '09 power levels and mileage (mine's an 08).

Must be something different about your car that they'd advise against headers and free flowing exhaust.

Ted

 

[ViperGeorge]

RTTTTed,

Dunno what would be different about my car. It put out 643 RWHP on a Dyno Jet with stock exhaust. It did gain about 10 RWHP with the new exhaust but it leaned out some (about 12 on the dyno). A/F was originally setup on the richer side (low 11s on the dyno) so it probably gained power because the A/F was more in the power band. Unfortunately the motor went for a long vacation when a rod came through the block. Think it was oil starvation but I won't know for sure until Arrow takes it apart. I hope it wasn't because it leaned out and detonated.

Again, I'm the expert on back pressure but I think that Dan and Jon B. would know.

 

[99VPRGTS]

My 2000 GTS is a very literal 'hot' rod. No, it didn't catch fire or melt, but in Alabama, 'melting' is an actual season of the year. As temps climb outside, my 'stock' car is not helping the temps inside.

Yes, this is another 'side sill/exhaust' post. If you find you're beccoming violent at the thought, step away from the keyboard!

My goals are three-fold 1) Drop sill temps and 2) Add a little better exhaust note. I truly hate loud. I know, kick me out of the club. My other cars are loud enough, I promise. The Viper is a car that I'd like to continue taking my wife to dinner without ear plugs. 3) Budget under $1500. The more 'under' the better me like it.

And YES INDEED I have searched, read, researched 'til all I see when going to sleep are high flow cats all saying "PICK ME PICK ME!"

I digress.

I cut vents in the front of my sill area, helped a lot, but I still get 'too hot to touch' temps right before the cat, after the bend or the 'normal' spot. Pulled my side sills again and noticed:

* Factory heat wrap is very charred at this area and
* I hate my stock cats guts. Too cramped, too big, too hot.

I've narrowed my options to high-flow cats (Roe or RT or other - cast your votes now!) and the rest pretty much stock.

I've searched this forum for Magna Flow cats, but can't find THE one chosen. My shop has this stuff coming out of their ears and swears they can find one that 'fits'. Wondered why the MagnaFlow cats aren't mentioned much on this forum.

Far as sill heat, I'm going to rely on the hf cats and I DO have the Roe insultation to wrap (read all the pros and cons) and might call my Dodge dealer (still in business! Whoohoo!) about replacement heat shields.

I appreciate ANY input here folks. Thank you all for your patience on putting up with another exhaust thread.

Ahudson, I didn't read through everyone else's posts so forgive me if I am repeating what someone else might have said

Here is what I did and so far, I can put my hand on my sills without burning it even after city driving in the FL heat. Now, the sills are still warm, but you are not going to burn yourself at all getting out of the car. I removed the cats in the sills completely and installed straight pipes, installed the ROE exhaust heat wrap, AND I also put the heat shields on as well. I'm not going to lie, it was a ***** to get the sills back on because everyone was a tight fit, but I couldn't be happier! Do this and you should be fine!

Oops, one last thing to note. I do have headers on the car as well as a borla catback. I am not sure if this helps in keeping the heat down passing through the system or not (less back pressure perhaps?) but just thought you should know exactly what I am running. Hope this helps! Good luck.

-Brent

 

[AHudson777]

Well, looks like I'm going for a trial fit of a MagnaFlow 12" stainless high flow cat on Thursday morning. I'm taking the car out of town early next week, and hope to have an experience to report.

Can someone let me know - will this change result in SOME sound improvement?

While I'm there, I bet they talk me into something different on the rear resonator! Suggestions here?

 

[99 R/T 10]

RTTTTed, Dan at DC performance warned me before I went with the system that a boosted car needs some pressure. He said that they dyno'd blown cars and they actually lost power with headers added. Both he and Jon B. advised to stay with stock manifolds and the smaller versions of the Random Tech and Corsa stuff. Apparently the extra fuel/air blows out the exhaust valve when the exhaust system is wide open. Not sure how much valve overlap the Viper cam has but I took their advice. Car did lean out by the way. Also something they said would happen. Not sure if it matters but my car has a Paxton centrifigal not a Roe positive displacement setup.

I don't get it, by adding performance parts, they said the cars lost power

Only reason for this is because the car still needs to be tuned. The engine became more efficent but now lacks the fuel to utilize the new found capability

 

[NI-KA]

Regarding cooling the car with regard to the exhaust.

Has anyone tried having the exhaust system ceramic coated?

 

[eucharistos]

what is the hp (cid, etc) rating of the MagnaFlow 12" stainless high flows?

i went with roe hi flows, improved sound. then did an x-pipe rear muffler delete, added volume and a little drone (controllable with gear choice) really like the sound.

was noticeably cooler as long as outside temp below 90, above 90 and sills still hot, just a little less so.

heat soak much less, cabin cool while driving, but heats up after a drive.

if i were doing it again, i would do a cat delete and either keep rear muffler or cat delete and the x-pipe again.

 

[AHudson777]

Regarding cooling the car with regard to the exhaust.

Has anyone tried having the exhaust system ceramic coated?

Good thought. Was wondering if anyone on this path has painted the inside of their sills with this...

Insulating Paint Additive Makes Paint Insulate

Some members of the Pantera community have used this on their interiors/firewalls with excellent results.

Comments?

 

[AHudson777]

Responding to my own post, always invigorating. I went with a RT metal substrate cat from JonB. Took it to the shop today to get installed. Hopefully tomorrow, I'll get to see, hear and FEEL a difference (in heat drop mostly).

Jon guesses I'll want more noise and likely drop the rear muffler entirely. We'll see!

Thanks for all the input.

 

[Ron]

My entire stock exhaust system is ceramic coated - In my application, worthless. Looks pretty though.

 

[dave6666]

Responding to my own post, always invigorating.

Oxygen to me, annoying to others.

WHADDUP?

 

[AHudson777]

Well, we removed the two foot long submarines also known as the factory cats, and installed the high flow metal Random Tech.

When I got the RTs in the mail, I actually called the company to ask if this little 9 inch long toy (make your own joke here) was a) Man enough for the job and b) Was going to be so loud I'd need a cotton ball dispenser in the dash. Clay at RT (good guy) assured me the testing proved they were indeed able to handle the Viper and that the noise - in his estimation - was hardly detrimental. JonB had said the same.

Well la tee freakin da... they were BOTH right.

My 'too loud' fears were unwarranted. I could barely tell ANY difference (a bonus) until I leaned on it pretty good in 3rd. "BrrrrraaAAAAA!" and it ripped onto the on ramp with authority. Sounded good, but hardly intrusive. NO DRONE of any type, any gear, any speed, up or down. Got the SLIGHTEST back burble letting off the gas.

The sills (polished appropriately and you may kill me for this but I painted the underside portion in 'Chip Stop') were noticably cooler. The sheer SIZE of the 'old' vs 'new' was clearly a recipe for better air flow. The sills still get hot, but nothing like before.

... about that rear muffler...

I'm looking in the catalogs now. The mod drugs are starting to take effect.