GTS vs ACR

Discussion in 'New Owner Questions' started by LastRites, Nov 7, 2016.

  1. LastRites

    LastRites Enthusiast

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    Hey all. New member here and looking to be purchasing a 96-02 here in the next few months. I've been looking around and checking out prices online and there doesn't seem to be much consistency.
    My real question is what would you all say is the difference between a GTS and the ACR. One dealer I went to look at told me about $20,000 which seemed high.
    It also seems that most dealers that I'm talking to don't have a whole lot of knowledge about Vipers themselves and really inflating the prices. (These have been the "classic" car places).
    Finally I'm curious as to where you all would recommend looking to find them for sale. It seems private sellers are the way to go but I was curious if you all have found any place that really seems to stand out.

    Thanks in advance for letting a newbie pick your brains.
     
  2. Bill Pemberton Woodhouse

    Bill Pemberton Woodhouse VCA Member - West

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    Frankly, the ACR has only in the past 4-6 years actually gone up in value over a Gen II GTS as folks have forgotten the problems many had with ACR shocks. In 1999 and early 2000 the Viper ran on Konis and they worked great on the track. Mid 2000 and on they changed to Dynamic Suspension shocks ( basically because of the folks that whined about the Konis rattling ). These were not track folks , but cruisers and so Dodge listened and changed the system, much to the chagrin of SCCA racers and track afficianados. The Dynamic Suspension system frankly sucked and racers had a heck of a time trying to get them dialed in with the springs and most of the Stock Class Racers lost interest in running Vipers as Dodge would not do a TSB to allow reverting back to the Konis. Within a short time the second issue appeared with these shocks leaking and not long after becoming unavailable for warranty replacement. Hence for years an ACR brought no more money than a GTS. At this point the cars are all getting old enough that shock replacement on any of the Gen IIs is not uncommon, and with the new ACRs ( Gen IVs and Gen Vs ) folks want an original in their collections ,etc.

    The 10 HP difference on an ACR was just the addition of a K&N Filter and smooth tubes , by the way. Just a little history that may help your decision.
     
  3. LastRites

    LastRites Enthusiast

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    I knew about the smooth tubes, but was just kind of uncertain whether it was worth trying to go for an ACR or not. Good to know about the shock issues. I take it the ACR's didn't ride real well then. Would you have any idea what a fair difference in price would be between the two models?
     
  4. Bonkers

    Bonkers VCA Member - Northeast

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    Theres certainly a difference, but I cant imagine a $20,000
    premium on a used GTS-ACR. Maybe $5,000 depending on
    the colour combo. The BBS wheels and OEM 5pnt harness
    are the two main pieces that would hold value - most have
    been removed for racing so a complete package is getting
    rare... but parts can still be found... ... ...
     
  5. AZTVR

    AZTVR Enthusiast

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    My 2002 with the Dynamics Suspension shocks rode GREAT after replacing the 1100 pound rear springs with 800 or 850 lbs, whichever Lon at viperpartsrack recommended. That is a highly recommended mod for the ACRs with the DS shocks.

    I bought the ACR (used) for the added uniqueness and the look with the stock BBS wheels. (aftermarket wheel choices for Viper were few when I bought it in 2005.)
     
  6. LastRites

    LastRites Enthusiast

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    I appreciate it all. I'm going to talk with my car guy today and start the search to find mine. I'm hoping by February to be the proud new owner, so I'll keep you posted. I think if I can do it reasonably I'd love to go the ACR route. So now starts the hunt I suppose.
     
  7. Bill Pemberton Woodhouse

    Bill Pemberton Woodhouse VCA Member - West

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    2-5K might be reasonable , difference wise, but the problem of leaking never went away and repair on them is a big hit or miss situation. You have to keep this in mind as cost to replace is a full set since one can not pick up the DS shocks.
     
  8. mitchdob

    mitchdob Viper Owner

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    Hi Bill, just fyi: Dan Cragin rebuilt the DS shocks on my '00 ACR.... as after 15 years they needed it (leaking). Per Dan the rebuild included modifying the upper seal to fix the leaking issue. The cost ended up being significantly less then replacing the shocks. Decided it was the right way to go. A year later no leaks but time will tell. Just some info.
     
  9. AZTVR

    AZTVR Enthusiast

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    The issue that I had that made me not rebuild the DS shocks the second time was that I had not noticed that some of the shocks had lost their gas charge. That resulted in the cylinder getting scored on 2 of them. Since there were replacement parts, the rebuilder said that they would have had to send the cylinder out to be used as patterns to make new ones. I decided that I did not want that down time; so I bought new aftermarket shocks.
     
  10. LastRites

    LastRites Enthusiast

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    Well I'm looking at this as an investment but just for curiosity sake is there any difference value-wise on the original shocks vs. replacements? I'm wanting to go the ACR route and want to keep it as close to stock as possible.
     
  11. AZTVR

    AZTVR Enthusiast

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    Do you mean, aftermarket replacements or replacements with the same brand and model as the original?
     
  12. LastRites

    LastRites Enthusiast

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    I was more talking if there was a car with OE still on it. Given I'm sure they'd need the repairs if they haven't from what I read. I'm assuming after market replacemtns would be taking a hit vs. the replacements vs. same brand and model as original
     
  13. ND4SPDLSC

    ND4SPDLSC VCA Member - West

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    I bought a '99 ACR essentially by accident as collector vehicle (was looking for something else) at a Mecum auction. Private sales are a better deal but the Viper Exchange has good inventory. If you do some reading, the Viper in general has a great history and a great race history. The ACR and GTS-R commemorative edition are the closest relatives to the racers. The ACR is rarer than the regular GTS with unique options. Right now, the cars aren't worth much more, but the divergence will occur later. The car has yet to pick up serious value. It may pick up soon or it may take years. Panteras for example only recently shot up.

    For collectors, rarity and originality are key for top dollar. You see this over and over when any collectible is appraised. That said, if you get a car without the DS dampers and it should have them, you may be able to find a set used. I would run the softer rear springs though and box the originals. If you intend to drive the car, getting a set of the Konis may be an option. Bolt on/off pieces that can be undone aren't a big deal if you keep the original parts with the car. If the car is a high mileage driver, it matters less but if the car is a low mileage show queen, it matters a lot. Better to track down the stock bits now as the part prices are cheaper and you can still find them. Few will care now, but it will matter later. For example, since I had them and they were free to keep, I kept the 9 year old tires (original brand and model tires that are obsolete) and wrapped them up for storage and got new tires to drive on. At 9 years old, the rubber was a bit hard and it was a safety concern. Documentation adds to the history and value eventually but it won't add much now. How long do you want to keep the car and how much do you want to make? If you're in it for the long haul, you want the history. Don't expect much change for the short term though.

    The year to year changes should also be noted. The '00-'02 cars don't have the forged internals on the engine and the cam grind is slightly different. I'm not sure this will matter later but the market prices are even across years right now. The ACR only adds 3-5k. Condition and mileage are bigger price drivers currently. Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
  14. LastRites

    LastRites Enthusiast

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    Thanks for the info. That's really helpful. I plan to hold onto this thing for a long long time. Something that gets passed down if I have kids type thing, but I do want the original just on the off-chance that I decide to unload it later down the road. (It's been my dream car for as long as I can remember). I do appreciate the insight though. I am kind of curious how you accidentally buy a car though. :p
     
  15. TalonTSi90

    TalonTSi90 Enthusiast

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    You tell your wife youre going to the store for milk.
     
  16. Free2go

    Free2go Viper Owner

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    You accidentally buy a Viper the EXACT same way you accidentally bone the babysitter.
     
  17. ND4SPDLSC

    ND4SPDLSC VCA Member - West

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    There was a calculated bid at an auction where I thought they wouldn't lower the reserve as we were 8k below the auction estimate. I was just trying get noticed by the handlers in the anticipation of bidding on another car. I think both I and the selling dealer expected the other guy to come back with another bid. The selling dealer broke even or more likely lost money by my calculations. I think we were both surprised and a little mad at the turn of then events. However, it worked out somewhat in my favor as the car I went to bid on was overpriced and didn't meet reserve and didn't sell. At the last minute, they also disclosed the car could not be registered in CA. :crazy2:
     
  18. blownrunner

    blownrunner Enthusiast

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    I have an 02 ACR, the Dynamics on mine leaked on three of them. Found some new ones on Ebay and sent two so far of the old ones to Carl Haas to get rebuilt. Ryan rebuilt mine and they are even put on a 'shock dyno' to test the operation and they came back with a graph and everything. The good new on parts is for the most part, everything is universal from manufacturer to manufacturer. They also put on the new shrader valve and the new wiper seal. They even had decals for them, so when I refinish them they will get new decals. It also looked like they changed out a spherical bearing on one of them. Bad news is they charge about $400 for parts, labor, and testing. I found rustoleum in colors for the gold body, light blue mounting ends, and the dark blue for the springs. Using scothbright pads and a file the nicks in them can be blended out. They are all aluminum so be sure on handling them to prevent damage as aluminum is softer than steel.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  19. blownrunner

    blownrunner Enthusiast

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    BTW, the ACR parts are a pain. The BBS wheels, wheel center caps, Dynamic dampers, and belts are really hard to find and can be expensive. The regular GTS by comparison has much easier obtainable parts in these areas so that might be something to consider. As far as being a harsh ride mine was until I realized they all were set for max compression. I started from full soft and am adjusting from there. It will still be bouncy but not bad. I live in Florida and the roads here are in great shape so the rough suspension is not as big a deal.
     
  20. AZTVR

    AZTVR Enthusiast

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    By the way, the lower rate rear springs that I mentioned above, that I bought from Jon at partsrack were the same manufacturer and color as the OE stiff as hell springs. That made a great improvement in ride and handling, IMHO.
     
  21. LastRites

    LastRites Enthusiast

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    So anyone have any of either for sale for reasonable? What I'm finding online is crazy.
     
  22. 2001-V10 Power Nut

    2001-V10 Power Nut VCA Member - South

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    Send me a PM, I will be selling mine, 2001 ACR, Sapphire w/silver stripes
     

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  23. nmp1

    nmp1 Enthusiast

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