INTERNALS

[inVision]

You guys are probably gonna get sick of me asking questions after a while, but please bear with me:

Can someone tell me more about the make up of the motor in 01-02 Vipers? Pistons, rods, crankshaft, etc. I read from another post that the pistons are not forged? This surprises me. I would think high performance cars like the Viper and Z06 would have forged internals?

Thanks!

 

[CHAD]

The Z06 doesn't.

Chad

 

[RedGTS]

00+ Vipers have cast pistons; all previous ones have forged. Everything else (crank, rods, etc.) is pretty much bulletproof. The cast pistons aren't weak, they just won't hold up to large helpings of boost as well as forged slugs.

 

[inVision]

The Z06 doesn't.

Chad

I know, I didn't realize it until I started looking into SC/TT options for it ...

 

[CHAD]

I have an '02 Z as well and maybe like you, I started visiting this board when I found out a TT setup for my Z was going to be $50k. Vipers are pricier up front but substantially less involved to reach large power numbers.

Chad

 

[LETHAL GTS]

The way I understand it is, it's not the boost that's the problem. It's predetination that can occur that will compromise the integrity of the cast piston.

 

[Viper Specialty]

yes, 00+ cars are Hypereutectic. TECHNICALLY, they are lighter, stonger, and more quiet...BUT, they contain a large helping of silicon which makes them easier to damage should pre-detonation, or "knock" occur.

 

[KenH]

It seems the conventional wisdom when using boost with the Viper is that the cast pistons are good for about 5-6lbs of boost which gives around 600-700RWHP depending on other mods and then you need to consider going with forged pistons. The crank is forged. It has six 4-bolt (cross bolted) mains, so they are pretty stout.

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The rods are forged and I believe shot-peened from the factory.

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--- Ken

 

[inVision]

thanks for that info! wonder why they switched in 00? Cut costs?

 

[GTS Bruce]

emissions.tighter fit. Bruce

 

[Marv S]

There’s also some reading at:

eutectic or forged
.

http://www.kb-silvolite.com/page03.htm

eutectic vs forged discussion - scroll down on page
.

http://www.taperformance.com/hyperteu.htm



http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB21&Number=202663&Forum=All_Forums&Words=&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=1day&Main=202663&Search=true#Post202663

 

[Jack B]

Almost everything about the newer pistons is a positive except the crystaline structure. The failure mode is similar to the shattering of glass. A power pulse of high energy (NOS/SC) and the wrong frequency are the culprits.

 

[BigCarrot]

Yep, I turned 9 of them into crumbs in my 01! I don't think I'll recommend a 200 shot on the creampuff pistons.

 

[MichaelP]

Ok so say you own a cream puff and you decide to try higher boost. Big Carrot, if you damage one or many pistons do you damage anything else?

I am thinking why not go ahead and run higher boost, if you damage the piston then change em. If you don't damage them you don't need to change them.

What do you think?

 

[inVision]

Ok so say you own a cream puff and you decide to try higher boost. Big Carrot, if you damage one or many pistons do you damage anything else?

I am thinking why not go ahead and run higher boost, if you damage the piston then change em. If you don't damage them you don't need to change them.

What do you think?

from the link above: ...at least one cylinder experienced spark detonation, resulting in one piston failing, then fragments of the exploded piston were introduced into the intake manifold and distributed to other cylinders resulting in an addition of 4 more pistons "exploding". This is not a recall on be half of TA Performance, because TA neither recommends nor sells these pistons, other parts warehouses push these pistons because of their flashy name, TA only recommends two types of pistons: cast for stock and mid performance street applications, and forged for high performance street and race applications. Over the last few months we have averaged approximately 3 calls per month regarding failed Hypereutectic pistons.

I wouldn't like the idea of fragments being thrown around, I would change the pistons before forced induction. Just my opinion.

 

[BigCarrot]

Hell yes you damage other things! If you trash a piston, you usually mar the wall of the cylinder. If you had a problem bad enough to trash one, you could also have damaged the head, the valves, the rod, the crank, and soemtimes the cylinder wall will bloat out. All of that happened to me except damaging the crank and the rods. No to mention the pellets of metal that were scattered thoughout my intake manifold.