It's TIme for Dodge to step up

[Kelly06]

It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

I think that instead of keeping quiet and maybe playing it "cute" dodge should step up and tell us what is in store for the viper. Otherwise fewer people are going to buy a viper, people are going to get discouraged with nothing to look forward to---no reason to hold out.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

I don't believe even they know what will be presented. Engineers are working on lots of programs. Probably some of them 10 years out. Others they are trying to make a business case/emissions/noise/cost program.

I believe they are restrainted from commenting on future products until they become official. Then everyone will know at once. Probably first announced on this site.

I expect that there is a huge push to release a Z0-6 beating program. Stay tuned.

 

[Warfang]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

I think that instead of keeping quiet and maybe playing it "cute" dodge should step up and tell us what is in store for the viper. Otherwise fewer people are going to buy a viper, people are going to get discouraged with nothing to look forward to---no reason to hold out.

I feel your pain, but all we can do now is wait. The good news? While you're waiting you get to enjoy the Viper you have now!

 

[Jay Herbert]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

History sort of says the opposite. When people know a replacement is coming, they wait, and stop buying.

Although not a Viper, this happened once on the next generation of Minivan... many were stuck on dealer lots and had to be given away, it also cost the head of Chrysler at the time his job. He was CEO for such a short time, I can't even remember his name. Dieter got the job because of the screw-up.

Competition is a great thing specially and after being on top from 1992 to 2006. My gut says great things are in store, but we won't hear that out of official channels for a bit !

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

Jay it was Jim Holden. But the story you have is not entirely accurate, and clearly only one element in Jim's demise. The story I have (just the minivan portion ) was that prior to the model changeover forecasts of the new vehicle launch rate (the launch rate is estimated based on experience and known revisions in the assembly process) indicated that a significant loss of market share would occur unless the previous model production was "ramped up" for a period of time, in essence to fill in the void due to lost production. Both for plant down time between models and new vehicle launch rate.

In order to fill that void the previous model was run at maximum overtime for some period before the planned changeover. The good news from the manufacturing side was that the planned down time could be truncated and the launch rate increased by a significant margin. Because the production side was gauged by production numbers they pushed the production envelope. The results were over production of the previous design (by intent) and rapid high production of the new version, much higher than originally forecast. The result was a glut of both old and new minivans on the market simultaneously. Not a good situation. In addition, that model change was nearly transparent to potential buyers. That made the new models "value" over the old minimal. Thus a financial disaster. But, it was because both sides of the equation exceeded their individual goals. Good for future reference as the intermediate goals should not drive a failure of the overall goal (profitability in this case).

A good case study for a future MBA program.

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

Was watching the speed channel show on the Pontiac GTO. Pontiac engineers did jam a V8 in the new car but incorporated none of the old styling cues. While the car had decent performance it went over like a fart in church with the ********* GTO community. You see the same thing in Dodge. They don't listen to the buyers!!!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

Was watching the speed channel show on the Pontiac GTO. Pontiac engineers did jam a V8 in the new car but incorporated none of the old styling cues. While the car had decent performance it went over like a fart in church with the ********* GTO community.

Dumbazz GM thinking a Chevy 350 would suffice for a Pontiac big block.

You see the same thing in Dodge. They don't listen to the buyers!!!

Can't say I agree with you here. Remember all the whiners wanting a "true" convertible? They got what they wanted, along with a cup holder and few other pansyazz creature comforts. IMO Dodge is trying to please everybody which spells doom for us Viper purists.

Also, aren't HEMIs hitting the streets now?

 

[Kelly06]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

Was watching the speed channel show on the Pontiac GTO. Pontiac engineers did jam a V8 in the new car but incorporated none of the old styling cues. While the car had decent performance it went over like a fart in church with the ********* GTO community.

Dumbazz GM thinking a Chevy 350 would suffice for a Pontiac big block.

You see the same thing in Dodge. They don't listen to the buyers!!!

Can't say I agree with you here. Remember all the whiners wanting a "true" convertible? They got what they wanted, along with a cup holder and few other pansyazz creature comforts. IMO Dodge is trying to please everybody which spells doom for us Viper purists.

Also, aren't HEMIs hitting the streets now?

I tend to agree and disagree with you. OK people got the vert and then the whining started for the coupe. People got the coupe by having dodge slap on the top and great paint jobs--and I don't really think that did the trick. My point was that as time goes by more and more choices are popping up and this takes away from the viper. If we don't have any solid info FROM DODGE, we and the viper are going to suffer. Don't misunderstand me. I love my viper. It is a car dream come true for me. But we need to have the scoop and something to look forward to. We need to see an evolution. If not, attrition occurs. Me--I am sticking. I would love to add a super charger, but I am affraid to do so because if any little thing goes wrong, I have no easy place to take it. Also I think this kind of thing could be done by dodge----easily. Also I think it is important to keep the car at somewhere under 100K which is a psychological barrier.

As far as the hemi engine, I think it's great to bring these high hp cars back, but I don't think it has much to do with the viper.

 

[plumcrazy]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

DC wont do it.

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

something tells me this started up from the "Article" thread. I do know a few guys who are waiting to see what's around the corner.

AC

 

[Jay Herbert]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

Jay it was Jim Holden. But the story you have is not entirely accurate, and clearly only one element in Jim's demise. The story I have (just the minivan portion ) was that prior to the model changeover forecasts of the new vehicle launch rate (the launch rate is estimated based on experience and known revisions in the assembly process) indicated that a significant loss of market share would occur unless the previous model production was "ramped up" for a period of time, in essence to fill in the void due to lost production. Both for plant down time between models and new vehicle launch rate.

In order to fill that void the previous model was run at maximum overtime for some period before the planned changeover. The good news from the manufacturing side was that the planned down time could be truncated and the launch rate increased by a significant margin. Because the production side was gauged by production numbers they pushed the production envelope. The results were over production of the previous design (by intent) and rapid high production of the new version, much higher than originally forecast. The result was a glut of both old and new minivans on the market simultaneously. Not a good situation. In addition, that model change was nearly transparent to potential buyers. That made the new models "value" over the old minimal. Thus a financial disaster. But, it was because both sides of the equation exceeded their individual goals. Good for future reference as the intermediate goals should not drive a failure of the overall goal (profitability in this case).

A good case study for a future MBA program.

I stand corrected. As a Manufacturing Engineering Manager, I can say some "Management" did not occur..... Thanks for the "rest of the story".

Side Note, this is a Great Quote

"Good for future reference as the intermediate goals should not drive a failure of the overall goal...."

 

[sween]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

if they tell us that something better is going to come out whos gonna buy the viper we have now? thats just stupid if they did that and they wouldnt make money.

 

[Kelly06]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

if they tell us that something better is going to come out whos gonna buy the viper we have now? thats just stupid if they did that and they wouldnt make money.

Probably not as stupid as what they are doing now. Do you see rising viper sales? Do you see anything really inspiring you on this forum? Do you see fairly deep discounts on new vipers? Did anything of the sort really happen to the vette when the new Z06 became more than a rumor?

 

[Warfang]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

if they tell us that something better is going to come out whos gonna buy the viper we have now? thats just stupid if they did that and they wouldnt make money.

Probably not as stupid as what they are doing now. Do you see rising viper sales? Do you see anything really inspiring you on this forum? Do you see fairly deep discounts on new vipers? Did anything of the sort really happen to the vette when the new Z06 became more than a rumor?

actually.... yes

The c6 (non-z06) vette sales was not hitting the marks from what I remember, and part of the reason was the announcement of the z06.

 

[Kelly06]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

/quote]

actually.... yes

The c6 (non-z06) vette sales was not hitting the marks from what I remember, and part of the reason was the announcement of the z06.

[/QUOTE]

The non z vettes are still not hitting their mark, except for those with the z51 package.
Hint: the answers were
No
No
Yes
No

 

[ledfoot]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

smart shoppers can find an 05 c6 for ten g's off sticker..

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

Never announce a new product while the product being replaced is still in production. Osborne Computer violated this rule and their lap top sales died while the company was still getting ready to produce their new model which caused them to go out of business.

I also want the next Gen Viper to Smoke the Vette and am sure it will. When will it be delivered? Not soon enough but it will come. Remember Corvette has taken 13 years better or match the Viper's performance. And their Z06 looks like the other 25,000 Vette's. It has good performance for the value but it is still a Corvette.

 

[D.K.]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

I was in the Los Angeles Zone office from 1987-1993. Did you ever make it out to L.A.?

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

Was watching the speed channel show on the Pontiac GTO. Pontiac engineers did jam a V8 in the new car but incorporated none of the old styling cues. While the car had decent performance it went over like a fart in church with the ********* GTO community. You see the same thing in Dodge. They don't listen to the buyers!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The GTO was one of those legendary cars that simply couldn't be "retroed" into a car today. It's success back then was directly related to the "Glory Days" before smog restrictions and few limitations. I doubt if a Roadrunner Superbird could be retroed either.
I would consider todays GTO a performance bargain for daily driving.

As for the Viper to "step up", I am sure it will happen. The new Z06 is definitely the coolest car GM has unveiled in years. Because of the return of the 427, this could actually be a Corvette collectors may want. True car nuts and collectors will still prefer a Viper V-10. Everybody knows if we were back in the 1960's and early 70's the true potential of the V-10 would make it to production and literally have dominated all.

 

[Kelly06]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The GTO was one of those legendary cars that simply couldn't be "retroed" into a car today. It's success back then was directly related to the "Glory Days" before smog restrictions and few limitations. I doubt if a Roadrunner Superbird could be retroed either.
I would consider todays GTO a performance bargain for daily driving.

As for the Viper to "step up", I am sure it will happen. The new Z06 is definitely the coolest car GM has unveiled in years. Because of the return of the 427, this could actually be a Corvette collectors may want. True car nuts and collectors will still prefer a Viper V-10. Everybody knows if we were back in the 1960's and early 70's the true potential of the V-10 would make it to production and literally have dominated all.

[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. However, looking at what ford did with the mustang and the upcoming shelby, I would say the above cars could be retroed without problems as long as they put people with a few brain cells in charge.

I don't understand the NAY sayers about dodge stepping up on the viper. I follow vettes closely and the hype on the new Z started a full 2 years before it came out and all without hurting vette sales.

 

[Warfang]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

I don't understand the NAY sayers about dodge stepping up on the viper. I follow vettes closely and the hype on the new Z started a full 2 years before it came out and all without hurting vette sales.

I'll have to disagree with you there. a year or so ago, I saw nothing but c5 vettes piling up and dealers trying to blow them out cheap. I drive by dealerships with 5-10 vettes parked outside, untouched for a year, with the prices marked on the windshield decreasing every couple months.

 

[Jay Herbert]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

I don't understand the NAY sayers about dodge stepping up on the viper. I follow vettes closely and the hype on the new Z started a full 2 years before it came out and all without hurting vette sales.

Not the same thing, Z-06 was not replacing the "current" C-5.... it was just another option package....

Announcing a new gillion HP Viper now would certainly not be a good marketing plan.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

If you were gonna sell your late model viper, would you rather sell it before or after the announcement of a significantly enhanced model?

 

[Kelly06]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

If you were gonna sell your late model viper, would you rather sell it before or after the announcement of a significantly enhanced model?

THis is what I mean by NAY sayers. People are going to have to face this problem no matter what. No matter how it is done, this will happen. Unless you or anyone has a better way to introduce a new and improved viper.... I sure would like to hear it.

 

[Jay Herbert]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

If you were gonna sell your late model viper, would you rather sell it before or after the announcement of a significantly enhanced model?

This is what I mean by NAY sayers. People are going to have to face this problem no matter what. No matter how it is done, this will happen. Unless you or anyone has a better way to introduce a new and improved viper.... I sure would like to hear it.

Yes, but the "people" affected by releasing information early would Dodge, who would not be able to sell the cars in the first place.

If the new model info is not introduced ahead of time, then the cars sell....and the owners that just bought just before the new model introduction then would be unhappy..... The assumption on Dodges part would be the people bought the car because they wanted it. A fair assumption.

So, what do you do, never introduce a new model? That would be a sure way to go of going out of business, and make customers or stock holders both unhappy, right?

Now, option B would be to not release info on the new car, and maybe do something nice for the buyers of the previous imediate model car (if possible)..... Give them first shot at the new car, or maybe something else? So, lets say for sake of discussion, a new Viper would appear in 2007, give all buyers of 2006's first shot? I hear the compalints now... I bought a new 2002, but love this Viper, why only give the 2006 Buyers a shot? Sort of gets complicated, eh?

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

I think GTO sales could be rescued if GM and the Corvette team allowed for an LS7 Z06 engine with 500 hp to get put into a GTO. The Impala SS of the 1990's was a good example of this. Never will happen but would be cool. Team Corvette was always too selfish to share technology with even the Camaro team possibly contributing to Camaro's demise.
I personally have the patience to wait for discounted prices when new models come out. I don't have to be first on the block with a new Viper as long as I get a great Viper at a great price in the end. I personally can't relate to people willing to pay huge dealer markups to be the first on their block to have one either. Obviously income comes into play on this issue.

 

[Kelly06]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

If you were gonna sell your late model viper, would you rather sell it before or after the announcement of a significantly enhanced model?

This is what I mean by NAY sayers. People are going to have to face this problem no matter what. No matter how it is done, this will happen. Unless you or anyone has a better way to introduce a new and improved viper.... I sure would like to hear it.

Yes, but the "people" affected by releasing information early would Dodge, who would not be able to sell the cars in the first place.

If the new model info is not introduced ahead of time, then the cars sell....and the owners that just bought just before the new model introduction then would be unhappy..... The assumption on Dodges part would be the people bought the car because they wanted it. A fair assumption.

So, what do you do, never introduce a new model? That would be a sure way to go of going out of business, and make customers or stock holders both unhappy, right?

Now, option B would be to not release info on the new car, and maybe do something nice for the buyers of the previous imediate model car (if possible)..... Give them first shot at the new car, or maybe something else? So, lets say for sake of discussion, a new Viper would appear in 2007, give all buyers of 2006's first shot? I hear the compalints now... I bought a new 2002, but love this Viper, why only give the 2006 Buyers a shot? Sort of gets complicated, eh? [/quote

Jay
THis is NOT a personal attack, so please don't take it that way. When has a new model ever been introduced without the previous model suffering to some extent? Clues, leaks, etc are all part of the game. I almost believe that you are arguing just to argue. There are always people who will come in and take the "older" model at a great discount just to get into a viper. I really don't understnd the negativity. It's like the republicans who at least offer plans (whether you like them or not) and the democrates saying no and offering no plans. In the end it will happen like I say. The leaks will start, leading to a build up until a new viper emerges. I was just asking for dodge to step up sooner rather than later.

 

[Jay Herbert]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

Jay
THis is NOT a personal attack, so please don't take it that way. When has a new model ever been introduced without the previous model suffering to some extent? Clues, leaks, etc are all part of the game. I almost believe that you are arguing just to argue. There are always people who will come in and take the "older" model at a great discount just to get into a viper. I really don't understnd the negativity. It's like the republicans who at least offer plans (whether you like them or not) and the democrates saying no and offering no plans. In the end it will happen like I say. The leaks will start, leading to a build up until a new viper emerges. I was just asking for dodge to step up sooner rather than later.

I'm not really arguing, just stating the reason for not releasing info early. Yep, leaks will start, excitement will build, and eventually the facts will be announced... hopefully here first

I could tell you all about the next Viper and when it is coming out, how many horsepower it will have, how much it's going to cost, what it will look like, but that would take all the fun out of it (just kidding).

We all know it will have to be better than the new Vette, a lot better..... right?

 

[Kelly06]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

RIGHT

 

[D.K.]

Re: It\'s TIme for Dodge to step up

Jay
THis is NOT a personal attack, so please don't take it that way. When has a new model ever been introduced without the previous model suffering to some extent? Clues, leaks, etc are all part of the game. I almost believe that you are arguing just to argue. There are always people who will come in and take the "older" model at a great discount just to get into a viper. I really don't understnd the negativity. It's like the republicans who at least offer plans (whether you like them or not) and the democrates saying no and offering no plans. In the end it will happen like I say. The leaks will start, leading to a build up until a new viper emerges. I was just asking for dodge to step up sooner rather than later.

I'm not really arguing, just stating the reason for not releasing info early. Yep, leaks will start, excitement will build, and eventually the facts will be announced... hopefully here first

I could tell you all about the next Viper and when it is coming out, how many horsepower it will have, how much it's going to cost, what it will look like, but that would take all the fun out of it (just kidding).

We all know it will have to be better than the new Vette, a lot better..... right?

Jay,

What division of the corporation do you work in?

I was in the Los Angeles Zone office from 1987-1994. I was the District Manager of los Angeles.