V
vegasviper
Guest
Hot or cold. Is this ok?
txlen
Enthusiast
what rockers????..t/d, mopar, what kind???
OP
OP
vegasviper
Guest
Arrow rockers. Why do they clatter only at 2200 to 3200RPM. After 3200RPM the clatter goes away
BYT U L8R
Enthusiast
Did you recently install them. Most newly installed rockers need to be adjusted after a few hundred miles
txlen
Enthusiast
sounds like they need readjusted and checked for proper pushrod length...Len
OP
OP
vegasviper
Guest
I have adjusted them 2 times with no change
Skip White
Enthusiast
I would call Mike Adams, he really seems to know about this more than anyone I've ever spoke to. As Txlen mentioned, pushrod length is very important, and often wrong. This is why so many people see very litle HP with this mod, not that it's much if done correctly anyway.
Try this, for what i'ts worth, Amsoil Series 2000 0w-30 This has been known to change things like this with out being a heavy bodied oil. Or at least freshen up what ever kind of oil you have in there.
I really know better than to make suggestions of this nature, it's like telling some people to change religions. As it was once said let the truth be known or the heavans fall.
Try this, for what i'ts worth, Amsoil Series 2000 0w-30 This has been known to change things like this with out being a heavy bodied oil. Or at least freshen up what ever kind of oil you have in there.
I really know better than to make suggestions of this nature, it's like telling some people to change religions. As it was once said let the truth be known or the heavans fall.
What length push rod are you using. I can only speak for the T&D's, however, with their design if you have too short of a pushrod you can starve the oil to the top of the valve train. The reason is the adjuster goes too far down into the oil channel and restricts the oil supply. They show signs of oiling at crank and idle, but, get air in them during normal driving.
Try eyeballing the adjuster tops and see if some are further down than others. The whole key is to get an accurate measurement of required length with a pushrod gauge and subsequent measurement with a micrometer. I would say the odds of making it work with stock pushrods are remote. If I am you I measure one or two cylinders and verify the required length versus what you have. What also complicates guessing is the fact the factory supplies different length pushrods which is denoted by the color band on the rod.
Checking length is quite simple. Find top dead center on one cylinder. Back off one of the adjusters to full up. Insert the gauge pushrod and tighten till you get zero lash. It is easy to find, just adjust till the play is gone from the assembly. Remove the rod and measure it's length. With the T&D's the sweet spot is one full turn down from full up. On the T&D's a full turn is .050". Therefore the correct length is measured length minus .050. You just have to verify the sweet spot for the Arrows and what range/movement is normal for the adjusters. At this point if they are measured correctly all you now do is crank/load them down 1/2 to 1 full turn and you are done. i don't believe there is any mod that gives you more bang for the buck. I showed 20 peak hp gain and over 30hp at some mid range points.
Try eyeballing the adjuster tops and see if some are further down than others. The whole key is to get an accurate measurement of required length with a pushrod gauge and subsequent measurement with a micrometer. I would say the odds of making it work with stock pushrods are remote. If I am you I measure one or two cylinders and verify the required length versus what you have. What also complicates guessing is the fact the factory supplies different length pushrods which is denoted by the color band on the rod.
Checking length is quite simple. Find top dead center on one cylinder. Back off one of the adjusters to full up. Insert the gauge pushrod and tighten till you get zero lash. It is easy to find, just adjust till the play is gone from the assembly. Remove the rod and measure it's length. With the T&D's the sweet spot is one full turn down from full up. On the T&D's a full turn is .050". Therefore the correct length is measured length minus .050. You just have to verify the sweet spot for the Arrows and what range/movement is normal for the adjusters. At this point if they are measured correctly all you now do is crank/load them down 1/2 to 1 full turn and you are done. i don't believe there is any mod that gives you more bang for the buck. I showed 20 peak hp gain and over 30hp at some mid range points.
OP
OP
vegasviper
Guest
I am using the stock push rods. I did gain HP.
I would think that clatter would be at all RPM range if i have the wrong size
I would think that clatter would be at all RPM range if i have the wrong size
OP
OP
vegasviper
Guest
They did not have much to say
2002_Viper_GTS_ACR
Enthusiast
MAKE SURE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE USING YOUR STOCK PUSH RODS WITH THE AFTERMARKET ROCKERS !!
For T&D's you DEFINETLY cant use the stock ones !!
Jon
[/QUOTE] MAKE SURE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE USING YOUR STOCK PUSH RODS WITH THE AFTERMARKET ROCKERS !!
For T&D's you DEFINETLY cant use the stock ones !!
Jon
[/QUOTE]
Some people say you definitely can't, yet I know some who are with no problems. Maybe it depends on the tolerance stack-up of factory and T&D pieces?
For T&D's you DEFINETLY cant use the stock ones !!
Jon
[/QUOTE]
Some people say you definitely can't, yet I know some who are with no problems. Maybe it depends on the tolerance stack-up of factory and T&D pieces?
2002_Viper_GTS_ACR
Enthusiast
R U Sure?? I mean the sizes are SIGNIFICANTLY different, like maybe as much as 1/2 an inch. so Tolerance stacking would not account for this. I mean if we were talking about a couple hundred thousands or even ten thousands, then sure, might be able to tolerance stack. But no, the two cant be interchanged, he REALLY should check his geometry. Its not that it MIGHT not FIT, its that it WONT be geometrically correct. He might drop a valve, from improper contact with the valve head.
Just telling you, I would use the right push rod with the T&D's which on my car were 7700's from CV products.
Jon
Just telling you, I would use the right push rod with the T&D's which on my car were 7700's from CV products.
Jon
txlen
Enthusiast
if i were you i'd check the pushrod length!!..sounds like thats your prob!!!.....gat a pushrod checking tool and check it out....Len
v96gts
Enthusiast
I have exact the same noise with Arrow Rockers.I installed them with new Arrow pushrods and everything fits perfect.May be it is normal? 2000mls without problems so far-let´s see what happens with the SC,that will be installed in 2 weeks.
fe155
Enthusiast
installed T&D's 1.7 last year after installing my S/C , used the stock push rods and tightened them down one full turn and had noises till warm and sometimes even longer especially after sitting for a few days.readjusted them down another half turn and had great oil flow and never had another noise since.
SNKEBIT
Enthusiast
You can give them to me and I'll quiet them right up.... 
OP
OP
vegasviper
Guest
V96GTS, is it the same RPM range noise on yor engine?
1TONY1
Enthusiast
Arrow recommends a different pushrod from stock. My Arrow rockers only clatter at start. Arrow is usually very helpful....especially Todd. Call them up again and see what pushrod they recommend.
I recently saw t&d's with stock pushrods.....the adjuster was down about 2-3 threads from flush. I didn't like it but they were oiling.
I recently saw t&d's with stock pushrods.....the adjuster was down about 2-3 threads from flush. I didn't like it but they were oiling.
Tony:
you have to be careful, they may oil at crank or idle, however, at high rpm's is different. Per their instructions and my experience if you get much beyond two full turns down from full up you are asking for problems. On the other hand that gives you two full turns or .100 of range. If they were measured correctly that should be enough. Still not a big leeway for error.
What is sad about these installs is the number of them done without regard for geometry or length. I think the most common pushrod length ends up being a 7.700, versus the OEM black stripe at 7.650. The first time I installed them I had them at 2-1/2 turns down and because they oiled at crank I thought they were OK, however, they would leak down and and clatter after racing and/or sitting. Measured and set correctly there is no noise or leak down.
you have to be careful, they may oil at crank or idle, however, at high rpm's is different. Per their instructions and my experience if you get much beyond two full turns down from full up you are asking for problems. On the other hand that gives you two full turns or .100 of range. If they were measured correctly that should be enough. Still not a big leeway for error.
What is sad about these installs is the number of them done without regard for geometry or length. I think the most common pushrod length ends up being a 7.700, versus the OEM black stripe at 7.650. The first time I installed them I had them at 2-1/2 turns down and because they oiled at crank I thought they were OK, however, they would leak down and and clatter after racing and/or sitting. Measured and set correctly there is no noise or leak down.
v96gts
Enthusiast
yes , it´s the same rpm range - warm and cold
txlen
Enthusiast
ok..ok...check the pushrod length.....do the job correctly....
1TONY1
Enthusiast
They were not my install, not my car. My opinion: Even if they were the right length, they should be changed for durability when installing rockers. Also while we are on the subject, according to t&d and from my observations .....the geometry will not be correct on t&d's without milling the rockers stands down. Geometry = The roller tip does not have the correct travel over the valve. The shims are only included for use with taller aftermarket valves AFTER the stands are milled. That said, there are hundreds of sets on stock heads, unmilled. That is one reason I chose Arrows.
txlen
Enthusiast
that also depends on the retainers you have on your valves...i had my head guy trash the original setup and went with some retainers that are not recessed..they are flat...the last set i did was rubbing the side of the rocker on the retainer in the dished area....Len
