Stuck valve spring retainer

[KenH]

Finally got around to installing my new valve springs and roller rockers.

On my 8th cylinder, I can't get the stupid retainer off

I have bent the valve spring compressor tool and even managed to break the bolt off in the head and still can't break it free. I have tapped the retainer with a plastic hammer to try to free it. I have compressed the spring and hit it with the hammer. I am using rope in the cylinder to stop the valve when I compress the spring.

I feel like I am at the point of causing some damage if I keep beating on it, like bend a valve. Of course then I have an excuse with the wife to send the heads to GG to get fixed up, but I wasn't planning on that expense this winter.

Any clever ideas of things to try? The only thing left that I can think of is to cut the valve spring out, but that doesn't sound very appealing to me since it is under pressure.

(oops, meant to post this in the Gen II section, but I'll take any help I can get)

--- Ken

 

[Viper Specialty]

I assume you are using a bolt-down spring compressor with the heads on? Pressurizing the cylinder to hold the valves up? If I am understanding you correctly, the locks wont pop out of the retainer?

If you can, post a picture of the rig you are using.

If it was me, and it REALLY came down to saving the head and valve, and keeping it all together, I would probably stuff the head with towels, cut the spring, and the slice a notch in the retainer and try cracking it in half with bolt cutters. If all went as planned, just drop a new spring and retainer on it and be done.

 

[hightest]

Compressed air in the cylinder is your best bet for holding the valve up!

 

[KenH]

Thanks Dan,

Thats right, the locks and retainer seem to be bonded together and I can't put enough pressure with the tool to break them free. The handle of the tool bent down instead.

Here is the tool that I am using. It is a Jeg's tool that is a cheaper version of the Moroso tool. Perhaps why it bent before the retainer gave.

I am using rope in the cylinder to stop the valve as the air compressor I have is a small one for a nail gun and I have seen warnings not to use it for this purpose as it does not have enough capacity and you might drop the valve. I put the piston down, stuff rope into the cylinder and then bring the piston back up to hold the valve in place. It has worked fine on the first 7 cylinders. I might try the air trick to see if it does any better.

Here is the valve retainer that is causing all the problems. You can see the broken stud from the tool. Getting it out has been the easiest part of this project.

While I have your attention, what do you think about this? I found this damage when I took the spring off another valve. I don't think I could have caused it, so I am assuming it came from the factory like that. I think it is high enough that it would hit the valve seal, but not sure if it weakens the valve stem enough to be concerned.

Thanks,
--- Ken

 

[Viper Specialty]

Hi Ken,

The way you are doing it would be OK in normal circumstances [even though its not a recommended method] but the issue you will run into is that due to the valve inclination angle, if you do have a set of stuck locks, you have a very high chance of bending the stem/head of the valve, since the piston and valve are not going to contact evenly. If you use air pressure, the valve will just open, worst case scenario. The only way you can drop a valve is if it looses air pressure AFTER you unseat the locks/retainer, and it would have to be near BDC for it to drop far enough to not be able to pull it back up.

Breaking the stud off is no surprise, that looks like a weak design that has a lot of ability to bend a probably far under-speced stud for job. A better design would use a pivot design like a rocker... that design has the ability to jam up and bend the stud until it snaps... as you can see.

The damage to that valve stem looks like it may be a problem, you might have to pull that head and replace that valve. It is tough to tell from the picture if it is high enough to not hit the seal area. It is also tough to tell from the picture the direction of the damage, but it looks like it was caused from pressure moving down the stem towards the head. If so, it is possible it is from the side of a retainer or lock digging into the stem as the valve was compressed.

Just curious, what spring/retainer set is that, anyway? We have been toying with the Gen-3 and Gen-4 parts for the Gen-1 and Gen-2 cars, they are much better parts and very cost effective.

 

[KenH]

I'm going to try the air compressor to see if it will work.

The springs are Comp Cams 26995 beehive springs with Comp Cam 774 retainers. They have spring pressures similar to stock (137 seat, 305 open). Since my engine has 40K on it, I figured I'd freshen up the springs and seals with a little better part while I was in there. I wasn't looking for more spring pressure since my car has always rev'd right to redline.

Mass is quite a bit less with these new parts. I measured 76.4g for the spring vs 116.4g stock. The retainer weighs 12.1g vs. 36.5g stock. I went with the chromoly retainers since they were so light and titanium retainers were a lot more.

I thought the Gen III's had a taller installed spring height than the Gen II's so would not work, but I could be wrong about that.

On the valve, I will cycle it and if the damage gets into the valve seal, I'll have to pull the head. I'm pretty sure that it is low enough on the valve stem that I could not have done it, so it has probably been that way.

Thanks for your help,
--- Ken

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Ken, you need to air up the cylinder, apply some pressure to the top of the retainer with the spring tool, and give one of the arms pushing on the retainer a few sharp raps with a small hammer to break it loose.

The mark on the valve stem is valve float. Everything you are going through is a result of valve float.

Poke a hole through a shop towel, push it over that valve, and dress it with a knife sharpening stone.

 

[KenH]

Thanks Greg, I'll give that a shot.

--- Ken

 

[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

I concur with Greg and Daniel.

Here's another tip:

With air in the cylinder use a 3/4" socket with an extension and place it square and flat on top of the valve spring retainer. Give it a moderate smack with a hammer, it will break it loose.

On another note. Never use rope other than to hold the valve up in the cylinder; you can easily hurt something if you apply too much pressure or impact on the valve.

Best of Luck!

 

[Leslie]

moved it for you to GenII, left a redirect so it can be found