Turbo or supercharger?

[DeceptioN]

What does everyone prefer and why?

For my 2002 Mustang GT I was considering getting a supercharger because there is no lag on getting the power, but for my 2006 Viper I'm thinking having the power on demand might not be a good thing because of traction problems and driveability.

 

[Roysviper]

There is NO Turbo Lag, NADA, ZERO, on the twin turbo Vipers. It is instant POWER immediately......Bye bye!!!!

 

[plumcrazy]

roy is right, no lag.

if i had to do it over, id definitely go TT. and these days, the cost is relatively good for them

id like to have the option of turning up the boost to 1200rwhp if i wanted to.

 

[treesnake]

Look at "similar Threads" at the bottom of this page....
There's a lot on here about this subject.

You are talking about two different types of FI power...
Where and how will you be driving it?
A TT Viper DOES have a turbo lag. Typically they spool up around 3000 RPMs. This is actually an advantage. Below 3000 RPMs, provided you have a good tune, you can drive the car "normally" on the street.
Hit 3000 RPMs and ...

Before getting too far, a lot will depend on you budget....

Don't forget that an engine rebuild is usually associated with big HP, regardless of which way you go....

 

[1fast400]

The answer to your question comes down to money and not power. The difference is probably 20k in doing one vs the other.

 

[Simms]

If possible, take a ride in a few different setups and see what you like (and how much power you really want).

 

[1fast400]

You might be better off selling your 06 and just buying a car already done if going TT. You'll never come close to the difference in price with what you'll spend on top of your 06 to get there.

 

[Slithr]

Might not be an option, but here is a beautiful 06' TT available in Houston (VCA classifieds). Built right

2006 TT SRT-10C - ViperClub Classifieds

 

[DeceptioN]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I'll be looking into pricing for sure now to see what is most doable with my budget.

What kinds of numbers can the stock engine put down safely? I know with my Mustang it was rated at 260 at the crank, and can put down 400 to the wheels before having to invest in a built engine. Don't know enough about my Viper's 8.3l V10 yet.

My goal is mostly just 600-700 rwhp. Would love to do it all N/A but I tried to do an N/A build on my mustang and the money I put into it I could of supercharged it twice.

 

[99 R/T 10]

Might not be an option, but here is a beautiful 06' TT available in Houston (VCA classifieds). Built right

2006 TT SRT-10C - ViperClub Classifieds

Looks like it sold. And I can see why is sold so fast

 

[plumcrazy]

600-700rwhp "should be" safe with the proper mods.

 

[RECOIL]

Aries was selling all of his SC parts for an ~700RWHP build not too long ago. I would PM him to see if he has any of them still available. There were going on eBay last I read.

 

[LS6 Molester]

If budget is a concern then just stick with a Paxton, there is the 2500 model available. I haven’t heard much on it yet but if you plan to build your motor later on it might be a good option over the 2000 if you want to make over 1k to the wheels. You can easily make 700rwhp off it on your stock motor. If that’s your goal just do that and keep it simple.

If you have money to spend and want an added cool factor get a basic turbo system, but I think they run 25-35k from tuners. You also have the option to build your motor down the line and turn up the boost.
When I first got my viper I thought the factory power was a lot, then I got used to to shortly after. I threw on a Paxton and was making 600 at the wheels and was back in business until I got used to it again. I got it up to almost 800 and the good times were rolling. I had to get rid of the car before I had a chance to upgrade to a turbo system L

the market though is very good for the buyers that want to buy a built car with a turbo already on it, which is what im doing right now

 

[ssjcreeper]

Roe Racing's Twin Turbo Kits for 92-06 Vipers & Ram SRT-10's - Twin Turbo Kits - Roe Racing

 

[WillH2010]

In my opinion you first need to decide on your overall intended use of the car. Are you wanting to jump in and take a 4-5 hour ride, or are you typically driving less than an hour to C&C and back home? Do you have a long term horsepower goal? Are you looking to set the car up to race (70-150, drag, road course) or just looking for a Dyno Queen? Next be realistic about your budget. The supporting mods for these systems can quickly out price the cost of the FI system. Anything over 650RWHP(Supercharged) and 700RWHP(TT) will require a motor build. What clutch are you going to run, transmission upgrades, differential, axles, suspension, tires, and don't forget about brakes? Are you wanting to install the kit yourself, or have it done for you? Each and every vendor is going to offer you something different in their package. When you are looking at the price, make sure you compare apples to apples. What are the materials used for the kit, and what gauge? Are you getting headers, or are the O.E.M. ones being reused? What about exhaust? The turbos themselves can range in price from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand. Are they sized for the type of spool you want to have? Are they oil and water cooled? Are you getting all the lines in your price and what are the quality of those lines? Most of the Twin turbo systems utilize a low side mount, so are you getting a quality scavenge pump system? What level of quality and airflow are you getting with the intercooler? What about heat coating? What about spring pressure for your base wastegate setting? Are you getting a boost controller? What is included in the fuel system (pumps, hanger, lines, filters, rails, injectors) and is it actually capable of supplying all the fuel you need? What is the quality of the fuel lines that are being used? Is is steel braided rubber ($6/ft) or steel braided PTFE ($20/ft)? Are you having to cut out the rear tub of your car to access the fuel tank? Are there any other parts than need to be changed because of the routing of their system or location of their parts? Something as simple as a fuel rail change can require the need for a new bracket for your throttle cable. What about tuning? SCT, VEC, Split Second, AEM, Pectel, Motec and many other options exist that give you various options and levels of performance. What about a warranty on the system? How many cars have they built and run this system? Is there any resale value to the car having a name badge from one vendor over another?

Hopefully this will help give you some questions to really consider in making your overall decision.

 

[FastZilla]

600-700 RWHP is a FREAKING LOT! More than you have traction for under 100mph w/345's PS2's or Sport Cups. On the Gen3 the tq is less than the HP which is a great thing when running a SC.

SC is the cheapest HP & safest IMO in the way that you can't really turn up a SC too much, you'll run out of fuel, start pumping hot air, etc. turbos with the whole low/high boost with the flip of a programmer are hazardous to stock motors. SC is safer in the form of much reduced ability to "go ahead and make 1200hp - just this 1 time".

Talk to the pros - they can tell you what is safe on a stock lower end - I've seen in person 850 & 900 hp dyno runs on Paxton cars with stock everything. As soon as I find out the motor is stock I usually back up out of the shop/area. I'm curious how long they last. There is a LOT of displacement there and it is very easy (not cheap) to make big HP. If you break it - you may spend more on repairs than the car may be worth. If you want a dyno queen then turbos are the ONLY way to get you into that club.

 

[LS6 Molester]

well on my 97 gts and made over 600 at the wheels i didnt have traction in the lower gears on factory tires on factory wheels. im sure now with the selection of 18s and now 19" drag radials (nittos) you can grab the road without any problem. i havent tested this but im pretty sure of it, maybe not in first but at least by 2nd/3rd.

with the turbo though, you have the luxory to ramp in the boost per gear vs the sc. you cant

 

[coupe]

Ride in a supercharged viper...then ride in a turbocharged viper.
You will not even debate it anymore.

 

[1fast400]

But ride with someone that knows what they are doing haha

 

[FastZilla]

I agree with you and the stock tires/wheels.

I've got traction problems at basically 700/800 running the new 6-spokes (18/19) wrapped in Pilot Sport Cups & I'll spin in 3rd at 100 on a 10lb Roe - sometimes in 4th. A pro & con for a roots SC - I'm running 700tq at 2000. RTs I think are a few hundred pounds lighter than GTSs, especially in the back...I think. All with stock 3.07's. The 19" tires actually gave me a bit of a taller final drive which actually helped quite a bit.

well on my 97 gts and made over 600 at the wheels i didnt have traction in the lower gears on factory tires on factory wheels. im sure now with the selection of 18s and now 19" drag radials (nittos) you can grab the road without any problem. i havent tested this but im pretty sure of it, maybe not in first but at least by 2nd/3rd.

with the turbo though, you have the luxory to ramp in the boost per gear vs the sc. you cant

 

[FastZilla]

Big difference between a roots & centrifugal - ride in each.

My thought is that with a roots you have the element of supprise. You jump a TT that's not spooled up and you'll have them for long enough that you can BS the win by saying "man, I was way in front of you all the way til 140-150 when I lost mey nerve because we were closing on traffic so fast"

I think if you let the TT spool up and do a legit pull the TT should win. Have a few TT guys here I'm wanting to test my theory on...once their TTs GET OUT OF THE SHOP!!!!! ...not saying anything about TT reliability....just sayin...

...but if they do win, then it's a built bottom end and I'll spray a 70 shot!!! Game-on suckers

But that's not how you drive on the street...
...look a Vette...roll down the window, slow down to 50-60, honk 3 times, etc., etc.... BS you HIT IT & send them home crying!!!! ...unless you're not spooled up Superchargers, especially roots, dominate at that - the "jump". That's why I went roots. I want it right freakin now! No BS excuses: "man I wasen't spooled up" or "I was in the wrong gear" - we've heard them all before

Ride in a supercharged viper...then ride in a turbocharged viper.

 

[1fast400]

A supercharged viper isn't going to touch a turbo viper, period. You can spray it, put whatever pulley on it you wish, you'll still get ran over by a twin turbo. This assumes drivers are equal. Don't let the spool thing fool you, I still pulled a 1.4_ 60' on a 20" invo street tire. You don't do that with a lack of power.

Twin Turbo's will always be the best way to go for power, just a matter if someone wants to spend that much.

 

[WillH2010]

A supercharged viper isn't going to touch a turbo viper, period. You can spray it, put whatever pulley on it you wish, you'll still get ran over by a twin turbo. This assumes drivers are equal. Don't let the spool thing fool you, I still pulled a 1.4_ 60' on a 20" invo street tire. You don't do that with a lack of power.

Twin Turbo's will always be the best way to go for power, just a matter if someone wants to spend that much.

I agree a Supercharged car won't come close to the capability of a TT setup. And with a properly sized turbo you can almost make them spool at idle.

 

[Roysviper]

1FAST400......is it just me or what the hell is getting our TWIN TURBOs SPOOLED UP??? I have NEVER had a TWIN TURBO VIPER have to get spooled up in a race,ever. I know the OLD Twin Turbo everyday driver type cars makin 100-200 or so so horsepower were spoolin up, but NOT the TURBOs in our Vipers. I think someone who has NEVER owned or drivin a TWIN TURBO VIPER would go into SHOCK. (and there is NO WAY I would let that type of person drive my TT Viper because I believe they wouldn't be able to control the car, due to their inexperience). In a 1/8th mi race from a stop, a TT Viper would never win at all if it needed time to SPOOL UP, and in a drag race the first 60' tells the whole story because the race is usually won or lost right there. IF my car had to SPOOL UP, I would get RID OF IT right away. In my type of race, SPOOLING UP is NOT gonna cut it. ANYWAY am I the ONLY TT owner/driver that has a TT that I am waiting around to SPOOL UP when I race???? I confuse easy but that one has really got me, maybe I need to get a cup of coffee and take a PROZAC to get my brain to SPOOL UP. Can you help me out here? You are the MAN, so I just need your opinion/advice to understand or do you need to run SPOOL UP also?

 

[Simms]

I can tell you that there is a difference in the feel of a GT35R, vs 67mm, vs 76mm TT Viper on the street (power comes on a little different), but turbo lag is the last thing I worry about.

 

[LS6 Molester]

the way i look at it is, we have vipers in the 7s and they are running turbos....

 

[DeceptioN]

Hmm, still lots to think about on this matter, lol. I run Nitto Invos right now, but will probably change to PS/2 whenever I do my tire swap in a few months.

The car isn't really a daily driver. I bring it to work once in a while but for the most part I just use it to cruise around or find something to race.

 

[Dom426h]

Deception, where are you located? Update your profile: top left corner under usercp.
I suggest meeting up with some locals and going for rides to get some first hand experience like others have said.

 

[mbccenter]

I have both including a supercharged 1krwhp srt. I would not say that the turbo is always better at all. I would just say there are different ways of getting there. For a pump gas car it seems that you can get there a couple of ways but the turbos are the only one that you can turn up and run some better fuel for more HP I love how fast the power comes on with my built paxton car.