Viper done blowed up!! Help!!!

[ViperTuner]

Any suggestions on which way to go to remedy this?

The best remedy is to get rid of the non-return style fuel system and upgrading to a return style performance system. Drawbacks are increased emissions , cost and increased noise. Emissions are normally out the window when boosting a factory naturally aspirated car anyway so I don't think anyone cares about this problem. When taking in consideration the cost factor, doing the job correctly will require upgraded fuel rails, pressure regulator, fittings, lines, external fuel pump, external fuel filter and a few other modifications. We also manufacture a billet hanger for 3 Walboro in-tank pumps but you will still need to convert the system over to a return-style fuel system. All external pumps are much louder then the stock in-tank or upgraded in-tank pumps which may be a problem for some.

The other option is to use an extremely larger OEM in-tank fuel pump and there is only one on this planet that I know of and it comes from a Bugatti and supplies over 1000hp of fuel.




Howard

 

[Steve-Indy]

I have nothing "mechanical" to add to this thread...BUT, after growing up in southern Indiana (just one mile from Louisville, Kentucky) I have heard these words " ... done blowed up!! " hundreds of times...and while recognizing the personal tragedy involved, the THREAD TITLE ALONE brings forth a chuckle for me each time that I see it. THANKS !! And good luck.

 

[aries]

I have nothing "mechanical" to add to this thread...BUT, after growing up in southern Indiana (just one mile from Louisville, Kentucky) I have heard these words " ... done blowed up!! " hundreds of times...and while recognizing the personal tragedy involved, the THREAD TITLE ALONE brings forth a chuckle for me each time that I see it. THANKS !! And good luck.

Glad I could give you a laugh.

 

[aries]

The best remedy is to get rid of the non-return style fuel system and upgrading to a return style performance system. Drawbacks are increased emissions , cost and increased noise. Emissions are normally out the window when boosting a factory naturally aspirated car anyway so I don't think anyone cares about this problem. When taking in consideration the cost factor, doing the job correctly will require upgraded fuel rails, pressure regulator, fittings, lines, external fuel pump, external fuel filter and a few other modifications. We also manufacture a billet hanger for 3 Walboro in-tank pumps but you will still need to convert the system over to a return-style fuel system. All external pumps are much louder then the stock in-tank or upgraded in-tank pumps which may be a problem for some.

The other option is to use an extremely larger OEM in-tank fuel pump and there is only one on this planet that I know of and it comes from a Bugatti and supplies over 1000hp of fuel.




Howard

Thanks Howard.

Hey guys, just want to introduce the tech that's doing my rebuild. His name is Howard and he's the owner of AR Fabrication in Winchester, VA. He will be posting pics of the carnage to my engine on this thread as he takes the motor apart.

 

[oufan2929]

I don't think I buy into the theory being espoused for the failure. There are probably in excess of 100 2006 SRT 10s with a stock Paxton kit running around. I have had mine for 13,000 miles. I have driven with the fuel warning light lit on two occasions with no problem. I bet that many others have also. Your car evidently is not just a stock kit installation since you mentioned that it has a Vec III and the stock kit does not come with same. Do you have a dynamometer graph from before the "blow up" that also shows your air/fuel ratio? If so, please post it. Also, what were the circumstances surrounding the "blow up"? What was the temperature that day? Were you at the track? What happened? It does not sound like it was as simple as too little fuel in your tank because the stock kit handles that situation. So something must have been altered to reduce the efficiency and reliability of the system. Or, in the alternative, your fuel system may not have been sufficiently enhanced to handle whatever else was done. In any event I am skeptical of the explanation being offered for the failure. You might want to give Dan Cragin a call at DC Performance to discuss the matter. They are a sponsor.

you're on borrowed time if you drive that car anywhere close to aggressive w/less than a 1/4 tank.

 

[Bobpantax]

you're on borrowed time if you drive that car anywhere close to aggressive w/less than a 1/4 tank.

Not correct for a stock Paxton kit on a stock engine. If you do not believe me, I suggest you contact Paxton, DC Performance or Mark Jorgensen at Woodhouse. Also see Dan Lesser's post wherein he explains the likely real cause of what occurred. Here is Dan's post again for your convenience ( emphasis added):

1. The OEM fuel system is not plauged by this issue at tank level. The fuel pump surge canister in the tank is dual stage, one stage pumps to the engine, the other fills the canister- which keeps it filled in all cases.

2. As a result, the Paxton system is not plauged by this issue, as the canister is untouched. The paxton system does however suffer from "blood from a stone" syndrome, and will be unable to pump fuel past the fuel supply ability of the OEM pump at lower head pressures, which is roughly 800 RWHP. The extra in-line pumps just help lower head pressure at the tank, and increase it later on for referencing, everything else remains the same.

3. When you alter the canister, such as adding another pump [depending on how its done], or replacing it with a drop-in canister, you will lose your surge function. This is where the problems start. It is very cheap and easy to just "drop in" new pumps, but most everyone forgets how important that canister surge function is! On the other hand, a properly designed fuel system with stock-like surge capability is VERY expensive and time consuming, and most people wouldnt pay it.

4. In any case, these problems are not going to go away until more shops revise their thinking on this approach. We have changed everything about these fuel systems and can give plenty of ideas, but dont expect any of the real solutions to be cheap or easy. In all cases, you MUST retain the OEM surge canister and OEM pump in their place, functioning at a tank level at least- they are the heart of the system. Once they go, you will have a surge issue at low fuel levels.

I have a bit over 13,000 miles on the car. It has never had a fuel starvation problem. However, there is another reason for taking it easy when the tank is below one quarter full. It is a simple one. When in the throttle, the car is only getting about 7 miles to the gallon. Running out of gas is embarrassing.

 

[Tere]

If you're going to boost, I recommend at least three more gauges: wideband O2, fuel pressure, and vacuum/boost. I also agree with a completely upgraded fuel system to include a boost controlled fuel pressure regulator along with a return line system if going anywhere above 7-8 psi. I'd also be leary of boosting the '08/'09 very much because of the higher compression.

When tuning higher boost applications, you take fuel pressure on both ends of the rails to make sure you're getting uniform pressure to all the injectors.

 

[Viper X]

Interesting post.

Everyone seems to be guessing that the modded fuel system failed. While it may have failed, it's much more likely that the tune was incorrect for the engine.

Make sure you get both done by a pro next time, both the fuel system and the tune.

Dan

 

[Fast Too]

Thanks Howard.

Hey guys, just want to introduce the tech that's doing my rebuild. His name is Howard and he's the owner of AR Fabrication in Winchester, VA. He will be posting pics of the carnage to my engine on this thread as he takes the motor apart.

I know Howard well, and your in good hands. I also saw your motor in person and ouch. I have the same fuel system by ART, and your pain is my lesson. I haven't had any issues yet but my car is way safe of north and its just a matter of time befoe I follow your steps. Glad Howard is getting the learning curve on your motor though

 

[aries]

I know Howard well, and your in good hands. I also saw your motor in person and ouch. I have the same fuel system by ART, and your pain is my lesson. I haven't had any issues yet but my car is way safe of north and its just a matter of time befoe I follow your steps. Glad Howard is getting the learning curve on your motor though

Well ya know, anything I can do to help. LOL

 

[vpr4track]

Hey Aries,
How did your situation work out? I thought about taking my Viper to the dyno @ AR, but they always tried to sell me their own electronics/tuning stuff when I was there in the past. I know they can build imports, but are you happy w/ how the Viper turned out?

 

[DAMN YANKEE]

"I thought about going with the T&D Roller Rockers while it was in there but decided against it after talking to two reputable Viper specialists. Stock is reliable...you're basically just paying for less friction on the camshaft and there's a lot more you can do with the money in respect to hp..."

Please let me know who these two guys are......I might know them, did they have big, big shoes and a funny red nose? Did they come out of a tiny little car?

.

 

[aries]

Hey Aries,
How did your situation work out? I thought about taking my Viper to the dyno @ AR, but they always tried to sell me their own electronics/tuning stuff when I was there in the past. I know they can build imports, but are you happy w/ how the Viper turned out?

I'll let you know when it's done. This build has morphed into a much larger project so it's taking a little more time, but Howard says it should be done by the end of the month or early Feb. I've just been waiting on parts and stuff and that's slowing things down. However, AR Fabrication has been great so far and I don't expect that to change.

 

[Disturbed]

I thought about going with the T&D Roller Rockers while it was in there but decided against it after talking to two reputable Viper specialists. Stock is reliable...you're basically just paying for less friction on the camshaft and there's a lot more you can do with the money in respect to hp or even lower end responsiveness(gears). If budget is no issue then go for it...I just decided it wasn't the biggest bang I could get for my buck.

Have you even taken the valve covers off your car? I bet you haven't or you would throw the stockers away. They are junk at best. Who were the "reputable" Viper specialists....I need to know so know so I don't let them touch my car. These engines should come with roller rockers.