VIPER HORSEPOWER @ 450 FOR RT-10/GTS IS VERY LOW!

[EXECMALIBU]

LESS THAN 7 MONTHS AGO AFTER REVIEWING THE SPECS FOR THE GEN II RT-10 I POSTED A REMARK AND A QUESTION ON THIS BOARD...

"56HP PER LITER SEEMS VERY LOW..OR 450 HP FROM A 488CI ENGINE IS VERY INEFFICIENT...

WHY DOES DC NOT OFFER A HIGH PERFORMANCE MODEL?" LIKE THE DODGE 426 HEMI OR THE CHEVY L-88 OR THE BUICK STAGE-1..

I POINTED OUT THAT MANY EXOTIC/HI PERFORMANCE CARS FROM THE 1960s AND 1970s OFFERED MUCH HIGHER HP PER LITER..

1. 1966 PORSCHE 906 @ 115HP LITER (NO TURBOS OR FUEL INJECTION)
2. 1965 FORD 427.. 71HP LITER
3. 1978 RENAULT F-1 (1.6 LITER @ 700 HP)=437HP PER LITER!

ECT, ECT..

I RECEIVED A NUMBER OF RUDE COMMENTS FROM A FEW PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD ABOUT OW NO RESPONSIBLE CAR COMPANY WOULD EVER OFFER A CAR FOR THE STREET WITH OVER 500HP.." IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN" THEY SAID

WELL....
I WAS AT THE CAR SHOW YESTERDAY AND SAW A NEW MODEL OF A LARGE 4 DOOR LUXURY SEDAN BEING OFFERED FOR SALE.

THE CAR HAS A 645 HORSEPOWER V-12!!!

THE TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE CAR COMPANY THAT BUILDS AND SELLS THE NEW 645HP MAYBACH IS THE SAME COMPANY THAT BUILDS OUR VIPERS!! DAIMLER/CHRYSLER!!!

TO THOSE SAME PEOPLE HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE SUCH A *****??

I REPEAT THAT 56HP PER LITER IS VERY LOW FOR AN EXOTIC CAR AND DC COULD EASILY INCREASE THE ENGINES OUTPUT AS PROVEN WITH THE SRT,SL55 AND THE MAYBACH.

 

[cstegall]

Exec,

Appreciate the update.
Your point is?


No Flame Intended...Just Observation,
CStegall

 

[Janni]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EXECMALIBU:
TO THOSE SAME PEOPLE HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE SUCH A *****??

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

After being educated, nicely, numerous times, that typing in all caps is considered shouting and is very rude, does anyone else see the irony in the above statement?

But, seriously, yes, the Viper engine is low tech. It's not a 9K redline S2000 screamer. It was always designed to be a back to BASICS (yes, I am shouting) sports car - it was not meant to showcase the newest technology - it was meant to be a bit on the crude side, visceral. It's mission has not changed. If that is what you were looking for, then you picked the wrong car.

There is nothing wrong with pointing out that the Viper is not cranking out huge hp/liter, but the engine is fairly easily upgradeable, very strong bottom ended, not designed like high tech, high revving turbo'd F1 car. You seem to be very angry and disappointed with your car. As I said before, maybe you boght the wrong car.

Sincerely,

 

[1TONY1]

Thanks Exec. Maybe they don't want to put the tuners out of business. Something may also be wrong with your computer, check here:

 

[joe117]

You are correct. The power per cubic inch from the V10 is not very high. I think the idea was to get a large engine with large low end torque. They also wanted to make the car exotic, this required something other than the same old hopped up V8. There is no question that a V10 with overhead cams and 4 valves would deliver quite a bit more power. From what I've read, I believe that the automaker was hard pressed to get the present V10 into the car for the target price. A relatively simple, large, lightweight V10, was the best they could do for the production budget they had to work with. I think the GM LT4 is a fair comparison. GM could have gone for a more modern version with more power, such as the ZR1 engine, but they decided that they could get what they needed from the fairly basic though upgraded 350 V8. Both the Corvette and the Viper are cars that are affordable and maintainable for anyone with a good job. This the benefit of limiting the complexity of the product.

 

[Snake Bitten]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EXECMALIBU:
WELL....I WAS AT THE CAR SHOW YESTERDAY AND SAW A NEW MODEL OF A LARGE 4 DOOR LUXURY SEDAN BEING OFFERED FOR SALE. THE CAR HAS A 645 HORSEPOWER V-12!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How much for the 645 hp Pro Basketball Player/Gangster Rapper MAYBACH SLED?!? Production version lists for $330,000?!?
My RT/10 was only $67,225 brand spankin new...with a 0-60 time of 4.1 sec...Phenomenal deal in my book!
For $330K...I'll take four SRT/10's...

BTW...the actual $330K MAYBACH production car only has 550 hp...*****!

 

[joe117]

You can type in all caps if you like. It reminds me of one of those old telegrams where the lines were glued to the page. The idea that all caps is rude seems to be some kind of tradition. I'm not against tradition but how would anyone know that it was rude or shouting if the caps police didn't tell everyone?
I just hope I can remember to be offended when I see all caps...Jeez, so many rules.

 

[DEVILDOG]

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Well, the ONE question you asked that no one had to answer for you is....."How does it feel to be a *****?" We are all reasonably sure you got a pretty good grasp on that one! and when it comes to RUDE...don't use the caps key, but we've told you over and over......Get a life and find something useful to do with your time, rather than wasting bandwidth on this site with inane comments no one has any interest in.

 

[EXECMALIBU]

TO ALL OF YOU WHO CONSTANTLY ARE OFFENED BY SOMEONE TYPING IN ALL CAPS!! GO AWAY!!!

I AM SURE THAT YOU ARE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT ALWAYS! FOLLOW EVERY ONE OF THE RULES AND NEVER AT ANY TIME EXCEED THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT,WOULD EVER ILLEGALY MODIFY THEIR ENGINE, OR WOULD EVER EVEN CONSIDER CHANGING THEIR EXHAUST SYSTEM (REMOVING CATS) TO MAKE THE CAR SOUND BETTER BY BEING MUCH LOUDER! WHICH MIGHT BE CONSIDERED INCONSIDERATE OR EVEN OBNOXIOUS TO SOME OF THEIR NEIGHBORS.

I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE TYPE IN ALL LOWER CASE, TYPE IN ALL CAPS,TYPE IN ITALICS,TYPE WITH TONS OF MISSPELLED WORDS.. ECT ECT...

WHO THE HELL CARES??

 

[pauls]

Bottom line: Cost and Performance. Exotic or Old School. Which one is faster?
I don't care how much it makes per cc. I just want to get there first. The Viper is pretty **** effective at that!!

 

[cstegall]

Exec,

Don't let anybody get under your skin...I actually have gotten used to reading your posts in caps(don't have to use my glasses

)and have found that you constantly lean on the "cause" that you are extremely unhappy with your Viper and DC. My flameless opinion is that you like to post in a negative fashion to see who/how people will react. It was kinda entertaining in the early going but is getting very old so maybe you could post something positive like..."I positively hate my Viper"..or.."I am positive that I will sell my Viper"..or.."I positively hate this board and am positive that I will never post here again".
Anyway...whatever you decide to do keep that cap button pushed..you are saving me a fortune in eye exams.


No Flame Intended...Just Observation,
CStegall

 

[EXECMALIBU]

WHEN THE VIPER WAS FIRST DEVOLOPED IN THE EARLY 1990s TIME AND MONEY WERE A MAJOR CONCERN ..


IT WAS DECEIDED BY THE VIPER TEAM TO MAKE THE WHOLE CAR INCLUDING THE ENGINE VERY LOW TECH AND SIMPLE.
THEY WANTED SUPERCAR PERFORMANCE FROM A BASIC DESIGN..


THAT WAS OVER 10 YEARS AGO AND BEORE THEY HAD THE TIME AND THE BIG $$$ BACKING FROM MERCEDES..

SINCE THAT TIME DC HAS ADDED THE GTS AND TONS OF HIGH TECH OPTIONS TO THE VIPER THAT WERE INTENIONALLY OMITTED (POWER WINDOWS,AIR BAGS,AIR COND,ABS.. ECT) BY THE ORIGINAL VIPER TEAM

DC HAS REFUSED TO SIGNIFICANTLY UPGRADE THE ENGINE OR DO WHAT MANY AFTER MAKET TUNERS HAVE DONE BY ADDING A SUPER-CHARGER.

THE VERY SAME COMPANY "MERCEDES" HAS ADDED A SUPER-CHARGER (KOMPRESSOR) TO A NUMBER OF THEIR LUXURY CARS INCLUDING THE NEW SL55 BUT HAS NEVER TOUCHED THE VIPER..

THE NEW SL IS A COMPLETELY BRAND NEW DESIGN FROM THE TIRES UP TO THE FULLY ELECTRIC FOLDING HARD TOP! THE SL55 MOTOR PUMPS OUT ALMOST AS MUCH POWER AND TORQUE AS THE VIPER IN A LUXURY CAR!

FOR THOSE STATING THAT THE VIPER IS A GOOD DEAL @ $72K CONSIDER THAT DC HAS SPENT ALMOST NOTHING IN DESIGN AND DEVELOPMENT FOR THE PRE SRT CARS!

THE SAME COMPANY "DC" HAS SPENT BILLIONS OF $$$$ IN DESIGN AND DEVELOPMENT OF THEIR NEW SL..

BUT THE LIST PRICE IS ONLY AROUND $112K ON THE SL55 WITH TONS OF ULTRA HIGH TECH OPTIONS WHICH INCLUDE A FULL NAVIGATION SYSTEM, STABILITY CONTROL, THE ABILITY TO DIAGNOSE AND REPAIR CERTAIN PROBLEMS VIA SATELITE,ECT ECT...

WHAT IF IN A YEAR OR SO DC UPS THE HP ON THE SL55 AND GRANDPA CAN SMOKE YOUR VIPER IN HIS DAILY DRIVER..

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EXECMALIBU:
TO ALL OF YOU WHO CONSTANTLY ARE OFFENED BY SOMEONE TYPING IN ALL CAPS!! GO AWAY!!!

I AM SURE THAT YOU ARE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT ALWAYS! FOLLOW EVERY ONE OF THE RULES AND NEVER AT ANY TIME EXCEED THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT,WOULD EVER ILLEGALY MODIFY THEIR ENGINE, OR WOULD EVER EVEN CONSIDER CHANGING THEIR EXHAUST SYSTEM (REMOVING CATS) TO MAKE THE CAR SOUND BETTER BY BEING MUCH LOUDER! WHICH MIGHT BE CONSIDERED INCONSIDERATE OR EVEN OBNOXIOUS TO SOME OF THEIR NEIGHBORS.

I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE TYPE IN ALL LOWER CASE, TYPE IN ALL CAPS,TYPE IN ITALICS,TYPE WITH TONS OF MISSPELLED WORDS.. ECT ECT...

WHO THE HELL CARES??

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

YOU ARE A *****!

Shouldn't you be worried about how much your Viper depreciated today you ***clown?

Did you read up on the 1000 horsepower v-16 caddy? OH THE HUMANITY

Just shut up and go away, you didn't make anyone look like an idiot, you just reminded us that idiots like you still exist. HOW DO YOU FEEL?

 

[lleone]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EXECMALIBU:
...
WHO THE HELL CARES??
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Clearly we do. Socially acceptable behavior is by definition that which we as a collective accept. You have been informed that your behavior is not socially acceptable. For that matter, your attack of our opinions as moronic and your mistating of facts (Maybach) is also not acceptable. Perhaps you should find another playground where your clearly demonstrated lack of intelligence and social grace is not an issue.

I asked you in a post several months ago as to the derivation of your nick. I am asking again. Where does the "EXEC" part come from? I am curious because it could be viewed as you claiming to be an executive of some sort. Given your behavior on this forum, I want to be sure that I do not have holdings in any company that you are an executive of and that I do no business with this company.

At this time I would also like to start a petition that the moderators of this forum change your nick from "EXECMALIBU" to "execMORON".

Lou

 

[malcoll]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EXECMALIBU:

WHO THE HELL CARES??

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I do because it hurts my eyes to read all caps!

 

[cstegall]

Exec,

Good post and makes a good point. I think it is understood that the Daimler part of DC will always have a tighter hold on the checkbook. I have been lucky enough to own some MB's and have noticed that they may push a lot of development money thru the division but the cars themselves have remained static in design and development. You are correct in that MB has certainly jumped on the "gadget" bandwagon and have continued to add electronics to their cars,however,that parade is a short one that at some point loads up the cars where there is no more room for "electronic gizmos" and MB will be back looking at performance vs hightech. As long as the Viper remains "raw" I believe that DC will continue to keep the ability of grandpa to smoke a Viper only in his dreams.

Thanks for reading and as always...
No Flame Intended...Just Observation,
CStegall

 

[lleone]

Craig -&gt; Ouch!

You tell him dude!

Lou

 

[Tusc]

"********"!! ROTFLMFAO Oh man, I needed that laugh today, Craig. Thanks!

Exec - your post has been repeated on COUNTLESS boards and dealing with every car you can imagine. The old HP/litre argument is a classic one and its been around longer than I have.

I don't think ANYONE in history has ever decided to buy one car over another because of its HP/litre rating. I want powerful, I want ballsy, and I want low-end torque. Sure, an 8000 rpm Lotus engine or 5-valve BMW are "cool." They might make more HP/litre, too. Wow, imagine that. But if you're so gung-** for DETAILS about an engine... look up BMW and Mercedes' TSB listings. The Z3, a popular little sports car with fair HP/litre ratings has an engine so poorly designed that there are TSBs for just about EVERY part of the rotational assembly. The Viper's stout V-10 is, admittedly, low-tech. But guess what? It holds up to some EXTREME abuse. From the factory it only comes with 450hp. Spend 7k on a Roe SC and suddenly you have a 700hp monster. And you don't have to spend $45,000 for a super-tuner to build a completely different engine to withstand the power.

Another big thing these days is refinement. Corvettes? Yeah, they're still low-tech, too. They are quick, fun, and sip gas. But they, like so many cars today, are becoming too refined. They're fun to drive, but I just don't feel the RUSH when I plant it. You want real bad HP/litre? Look at my pos Camaro, man! 355cid 2 valve/cyl blah blah blah - basic pushrod V-8 making 440 emissions-legal (HA!) hp, but that car puts my *** in the seat. I've been in AMGs, Porsches, and one yellow 355... they are all hot cars in their own right... and certainly fall in your category of HP/litre... but they did not impress me. Drop the hammer and they MOVE OUT, but you don't "feel" it.

The Viper? The looks, the simplicity, the raw unadulterated "over the top" attitude associated with every part of the car... THAT impresses me. It was built to be more of a spartan race car than an overly complex, France-mobile on wheels. It offers no apologies. The designers didn't go techno-geek on us, they just solved the problem with a sledge-hammer. And I love it!

Viper = the American way
big HP/Litre cars = Euro-trash and asian rice rockets

If you don't like your Viper and want something with more amenities and overall higher "technology" I'll trade you my C5.

 

[Tusc]

Another way to say it is that the Viper is a car that can be built on, while many of the cars mentioned by ExecMama - although powerful - are at the limits of their design capabilities.

 

[garolittle]

I just remembered why I am pro-choice.

 

[EXECMALIBU]

CRAIG 201 MPH

WHEN I SAID THAT DC COULD EASILY UP THE VIPER ENGINES OUTPUT BY 100HP..

YOU REPLIED

"MORE POWER=MORE STRESS ON THE ENGINE= REDUCED ENGINE LIFE"..

ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE VIPER ENGINE CANNOT HANDLE ANOTHER 100HP??

I BET THAT DC COULD PROBABLY HAVE LOOKED REAL HARD AND FOUND AN ENGINEER THAT COULD HAVE REDESIGNED THE WEAK VIPER MOTOR FOR ANOTHER 100P...

MAKE SURE THAT YOU TELL THE LEMANS AND OTHER ENDURANCE RACERS! THEY WILL NEED YOUR ADVICE!!

DO YOU KNOW SOMETHING THAT SEAN ROE,DAN CRAGIN,DOUG LEVIN ECT DONT KNOW?

I HAVE ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD THAT THE VIPER MOTORS WERE ROCK SOLID UP TO 650HP WITH LITTLE OR NO RELIABILITY ISSUES..

BUT I GUESS ACCORDING TO YOU I AM NOT ON THE SAME PAGE YET..

SO MAYBE YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY ALERT ALL OF THE OTHER VIPER OWNERS WHO ARE PLANNING ON BUYING A SC OR HIPO HEADS/CAM THAT THEY WILL HAVE MOTOR PROBLEMS..

I AM SURE GLAD THAT YOU ARE SUCH AN EXPERT..

I WAS WONDERING WHY IF ACCORDING TO MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BLASTED M, IF THE VIPER IS THE ABSOLUTE PERFECT CAR.

WHY HAVE SO MANY OF THESE SAME PEOPLE SOLD THEIR CARS??

 

[ronviper]

Execmalibu its' obvious you don't understand our car, its a torque monster, low maintanace, high powered sports car. We North Americans perfer torque over horsepower, lots of rubber burning straight line acceleration at a resonable price. It will take one heck of a exotic to beat the Viper also the Viper will live longer because of less stress per cylinder. If you read this board you will see lots of Vipers making 6, 7, 8, 900 plus horsepower this car is far from being limited because we have cubic inch. Also in closing we are seeing some very good tuners raising the bar for horsepower almost on a daily basis.

 

[Tomer]

Tomer

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Oh man! you are aware that oreca tears down the engines often to check them and replace any parts that look worn.

As for tuner engines vs. stock engines, just wait and see which ones last longer. Of course that's not intended to take anything away, it's the opportuninty cost of wanting more power, the people that pay out big $$ for the packages know they will need more maintenance to take care of that awesome machine.

For the last time, shut up about this "I want another 100 h.p. from the factory" just send your car to a tuner and spare us these retarted posts.

 

[ronviper]

Craig 201 you should know better than comparing tuners to factory, the problems in most cases are drivers. We beat the hell out of them and cubic inch can take the pounding if properly maintained by owner. Cars that rev higher will always need more maintaince and repairs.

 

[lleone]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lleone:

I asked you in a post several months ago as to the derivation of your nick. I am asking again. Where does the "EXEC" part come from? I am curious because it could be viewed as you claiming to be an executive of some sort. Given your behavior on this forum, I want to be sure that I do not have holdings in any company that you are an executive of and that I do no business with this company.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again I ask you, where does the "EXEC" part come from?
Are you still in high school? Junior high? What's that? You dropped out after having to repeat the 6th grade eight times? On second thought, stick with the velcro laces...

Lou

 

[EXECMALIBU]

RONVIPER,

I TOTALLY AGREE 488CI V-10 (8-LITERS) IS A TORQUE MONSTER.

WHAT I HAVE REPEATEDLY SAID IS THAT THE VIPER ENGINE CAN EASILY HANDLE AT LEAST ANOTHER 100HP...OBVIOUSLY THE TUNERS CAN PULL THE POWER UP MUCH HIGHER..

IN 10 YEARS WHY HAS DC FAILED THE UP THE ANTE MORE THAN 12% AND DO SOME SERIUOS MOTOR UPGRADES TO INCREASE THE HP AND TORQUE??

MORE IS BETTER! RIGHT??

YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TO MUCH POWER! RIGHT??

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ronviper:
Craig 201 you should know better than comparing tuners to factory, the problems in most cases are drivers. We beat the hell out of them and cubic inch can take the pounding if properly maintained by owner. Cars that rev higher will always need more maintaince and repairs.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know I should but I have nothing else to compare to. I dunno, I'll try anything to make execclueless understand.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EXECMALIBU:
RONVIPER,

I TOTALLY AGREE 488CI V-10 (8-LITERS) IS A TORQUE MONSTER.

WHAT I HAVE REPEATEDLY SAID IS THAT THE VIPER ENGINE CAN EASILY HANDLE AT LEAST ANOTHER 100HP...OBVIOUSLY THE TUNERS CAN PULL THE POWER UP MUCH HIGHER..

IN 10 YEARS WHY HAS DC FAILED THE UP THE ANTE MORE THAN 12% AND DO SOME SERIUOS MOTOR UPGRADES TO INCREASE THE HP AND TORQUE??

MORE IS BETTER! RIGHT??

YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TO MUCH POWER! RIGHT??

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DC failed at nothing.

$100 says you wouldn't have the balls to approach PVO at a VOI and tell them they failed with the viper.


It's probably a big planned obsolescence approach by DC to sell more mopar parts