Viper X10 On Track

ViperX10

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So... I FINALLY Created the Video of the Viper X10 Lap Record at Willow Springs and uploaded it on the Web. For those interested, there's an inside view of the car and the dash of the Data Acquisition showing Lap times, and Speed in MPH.

Here it is: http://www.viperx10.com/videos.html
 

Catwood

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Wow. I watched the video twice before I looked around the website. Watching the gear selection at points on the track had me totally confused until I read that you have a special gear set in the transmission. Can you explain that more? Also, what tires were you on?

I also watched your speed in various points. How you cut 8 to 10 seconds a lap from my typical times is not as obvious as it should be except in turn 8. I'm going to down load the video and watch it more...I have alot to learn.

Thanks
Carl
 
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ViperX10

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Thanks Everyone for your Replies.

More videos to come from all the tracks the Viper X10 has been to...
 
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ViperX10

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Wow. I watched the video twice before I looked around the website. Watching the gear selection at points on the track had me totally confused until I read that you have a special gear set in the transmission. Can you explain that more?

We selected the Gears so that the car would reach 185 mph in 6th Gear at 6000 rpm. We had the Nurburgring in mind as it's the only track in the world where we could reach that speed. We wanted a transmission like all the European Sports Cars (Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, etc.) that all have 6 useable gears (with Top Speed in 6th at redline instead of 5th at 4100 and no useable 6th on stock Vipers) and don't care about gas mileage/guzzler taxes. Remember, this car is for people who want max performance on the track and as I drive it regularly on the street, the difference in gas mileage is not so bad. Probably like a Ferrari or Lamborghini?!?

It's really a blast to drive the car now (even on the street) as it really behaves like a real race car allowing you to use the perfect gear/rpm combination where ever you are on the track instead of having to deal with too short or too long ratios. It's hard to explain in words, but if you've driven a Ferrari or a Porsche before, you know what I am talking about.

We also did these changes based on our experience driving Vipers for years on the tracks. For example we have never been able to run a faster lap time at Willow Springs with a Gen4 Viper than we did with a Gen3. We setup 2 Vipers with the same alignments, same tires and the 08 could not beat the lap time of the 06. Why? Because at Willow, we could never use the 08 and its longer power range due to the tall gears (we would always have to jump on the break for the next turn before the 5800 rpm sweet spot) while the 06 lower torque band allowed to use it all before the next turn/breaking point.

With this transmission, no more waste of power band. In fact, the car is soooo perfect now that we are running out of power. It could definitely use another 200-300 hp!!!

Anyways... That's why you see me shifting at different points and speed as you would in your car.

I hope it helps you understand the differences...

Terry.
 
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ViperX10

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Also, what tires were you on?
l

I was on Hoosiers R6. Remember, it is summer in California and these laps were done in the afternoon (90 to 100 degrees). For those who know Willow Springs, Fast lap times are done in the Winter in the morning session. We'll be back in 6 months... :)
 
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ViperX10

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I also watched your speed in various points. How you cut 8 to 10 seconds a lap from my typical times is not as obvious as it should be except in turn 8. I'm going to down load the video and watch it more...I have alot to learn.

Thanks
Carl

I have all the Data saved in my G2X RacePak Data Acquisition. If you can save your laps in same format, we could compare and have precise information. I would think that my lap would be a little faster than yours in the turns (that's where the car is better). There's 9 turns, so the ViperX10 just need to be about 1 second faster in each turn to make the difference.

I hope you understand that the ViperX10 is Highly modified (much wider, much lighter, with humongous amount of Down force, excellent balance, etc.), so don't try to duplicate this with your car unless it has the same characteristics or It won't work and you might get hurt.

I can't remember how is your car... You used to have a highly modified GTS Race Car, do you still have it?
 

TrackAire

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We selected the Gears so that the car would reach 185 mph in 6th Gear at 6000 rpm. We had the Nurburgring in mind as it's the only track in the world where we could reach that speed. We wanted a transmission like all the European Sports Cars (Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, etc.) that all have 6 useable gears (with Top Speed in 6th at redline instead of 5th at 4100 and no useable 6th on stock Vipers) and don't care about gas mileage/guzzler taxes. Remember, this car is for people who want max performance on the track and as I drive it regularly on the street, the difference in gas mileage is not so bad. Probably like a Ferrari or Lamborghini?!?

It's really a blast to drive the car now (even on the street) as it really behaves like a real race car allowing you to use the perfect gear/rpm combination where ever you are on the track instead of having to deal with too short or too long ratios. It's hard to explain in words, but if you've driven a Ferrari or a Porsche before, you know what I am talking about.

We also did these changes based on our experience driving Vipers for years on the tracks. For example we have never been able to run a faster lap time at Willow Springs with a Gen4 Viper than we did with a Gen3. We setup 2 Vipers with the same alignments, same tires and the 08 could not beat the lap time of the 06. Why? Because at Willow, we could never use the 08 and its longer power range due to the tall gears (we would always have to jump on the break for the next turn before the 5800 rpm sweet spot) while the 06 lower torque band allowed to use it all before the next turn/breaking point.

With this transmission, no more waste of power band. In fact, the car is soooo perfect now that we are running out of power. It could definitely use another 200-300 hp!!!

Anyways... That's why you see me shifting at different points and speed as you would in your car.

I hope it helps you understand the differences...

Terry.

Great job on the whole package Terry. What transmission ratios and rear end gearing did you end up with?

Keep the cool videos coming,
George
 

vp97

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Great video and awesome driving skills! For those that have some track time under their belt, what is the durability of using 5th & 6th gears on a long, high speed straight? I had G-Force do the tranny in my gen2 and if I remember right, they said wide open runs in the overdrive clusters is not a good idea. Any thoughts on that?
 

Bill Pemberton Woodhouse

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Terry,

The video is amazing and the smoothness of the driver is quite apparent, but I have alot of confusion on your statement about the Gen III and the Gen IV motors, even in stock form. The sweet spot you mentioned is not the same on a Gen IV, and it sounds like your gearing was not optimized like in your 06. When the new sweet spot is 6400 with the variable valve timing , it seems that gearing changes like you did on the 06 would make the 08 haul the mail even better? Better yet , a MoPar PCM and some BadBoyzz Garage ACR-X headers and a few other upgrades produce a much stronger power band on the better flowing 8.4 than on an 8.3 , so the folks that want to warm up the package get more bang for their buck.

Pleasure to watch the video as the driver is classic in his ability to minimize steering input and maximize use of the track --- great lines. I do understand your concept that some tracks do lend themselves to various cars and motors, but it is difficult to wrap around the concept you have given, as the gearing would have to be different with each motor based on their attributes.

Looking forward to watching more videos of the car, as it proves , " to go fast , you have to look slow!" Keep up the good work and thanks for the efforts so we could all share the experience with your video.
 
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ViperX10

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Bill,

Is it your name or the name of the Dealership?!? I'll assume it's your name. I think I've talked to you before when I called Woodhouse for Comp Coupe Parts.

Anyway, I have to turn auto subscribing on (or something like that), cause I never know when people communicate with me on this board. Hence the lack of response from me. I apologize.

Thanks for the compliment on the driving, like I said before, it's a lot easier when the car has that much down force and handle so well. As you know, anyone looks like a star and goes fast in a Comp Coupe. Same idea here. The car handles so well, it makes fast laps feel like cruising.

Funny you mention the "Go slow to go Fast" theory. Everyone who knows racing, knows it's true, but you would not believe how many times I have taken guys in cars to show them what to do around a track and they would get out of the car disappointed asking for someone else to show them, as they thought I was too slow (because we didn't have a lap timer to prove anything). They jump in a car with a super violent (and super slow) driver that drives all over the place and they feel like they had the ride of their life and that's what they are going to try to duplicate. Sad and frustrating. I know I look slow and in the Videos, it even shows more. It's boring to watch, but there's nothing I can do. It is what it is. Maybe someday, I will do a lap all over the place just to make a good looking video. I'll have to hide the lap timer though. :rolaugh:

As far as the Gearing and the power band of Gen3 vs gen4, what I meant is that the Gearing I Came up with for the Viper X10 is ideal for most of the tracks. I started with the fastest speed you could expect on a track in 6th gear. I picked 185 mph (for the Nurburgring, as we were suppose to test the car over there but missed the opportunity) and went down on the other gears to allow perfect selection of each gears. I ended up only changing 5th and 6th and played with final drive to reach my goal. Now the car drives like a Ferrari, Porsche or a Lambo that all use short gears with no overdrive and reach top speed in 6th at redline. So, not so good for gas mileage, but It's not really the intent of this car. So I really really LOVE these gears on the tracks. You just keep on shifting as much as you need to (like any formula car or sport racer) and you never have to "compromise" and end up too low or too high in rpm because of long gears designed for gas efficiency. For example the stock gearing on a gen 3 with it's low powerband is kind of ok on the 2 straights at Willow Springs, but the same transmission in a Gen4 is wrong as you end up having to jump on the brakes for turns 1 and 8, before you even have a chance to reach the sweet spot of the motor. In fact, I have done some intensive testing with a Gen3 coupe and a Gen4 coupe at willow (On Street Tires) and because of the powerband difference and the low gears, the Gen4 would not set a faster lap time. Hard to explain in few words, but I suppose you can imagine what I am talking about. The stock gears are just way too long for anyone to optimize their engine on any track. With the Viper X10's Gearing, it's a DREAM!!!!

What I also meant is that the handling of the Viper X10 is sooo Amazing, it's running out of motor. The car is now clearly limited in lap time, by the lack of HP (since when 500 hp isn't enough? Funny!!!). I am flat out in so many sections of tracks that I wish I could have more power for the straights and be forced to slow down for turns. For example for turn 8 at Willow spring, I am flat out from turn 5 to turn 9 and can't pass 130 mph while I would like to have more power and speed in the straights and have to slow down for 8 (which can't really be taken faster than 130mph in any production street legal car). Another good example is California Speedway where gen 3's are limited to 150 mph on the oval while a "lightly" modified gen4 ACR will hit 165!!! It's very annoying as 150 is also the speed at which the Viper X10 can take turn one (while ACR's have to slow down to about 130-140). I have a video that I will post asap.

So I am really really looking foward to building the next ViperX10 on a Gen 4 platform (It's so fast on a Gen3, imagine on a gen4!!!).

Coming Soon...

I hope I didn't bore to deaf everybody with all these Technical details. :D

Terry.
 

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