Policy Limits
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Exclusivity Rocks...I've always valued it highly because I hate having something most people have. and I constantly see corvette, bmw, Porsche, MB on the road all the time.
What makes the Gen5 worth $100K?
- Thread starter 99sh
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kdaviper
Enthusiast
When I see a nice Porsche, I glance at it, for sure, but when I see a Viper of any gen, I STARE until It goes out of sight or I begin veering into other lanes of traffic.
v10enomous
Enthusiast
What makes cars with smaller engines worth $100k
mnc2886
Enthusiast
What makes cars with smaller engines worth $100k
My favorite comeback!!
Brian GTS
Enthusiast
Guys I personally have owned every Gen of Viper dating back to 94 . Ican not afford the 5 that being said if I could EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of that car had better be equal to what others are offering at a 150 k sticker .Track performance in the price range the 5 is at is only a SMALL ASPECT of buyer critera .
VENOM V
Enthusiast
Uh, they're not $150K. You can get an SRT for a little over $100k. Even my Stryker Red, which is at the high end of what people spend, is $143,090 with Track Pack, gas guzzler tax and destination fee. Worth every penny, and it scores a bulls eye on my buyer's criteria. But it's also not going to sell big numbers like Porsches. It's a specialty vehicle, it doesn't have to appeal to everyone. Just a couple thousand a year to make a profit, and I think it'll hit that number.
And many dealers will not take the chance in ordering one with a basic interior because if its not up to par the car will sit .(A main reason why the 4 didn't sell well )Many cars in this price strata are limited production (how many Ferrari Dayton are produced yearly )
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
A base 911 4S is more expensive than a base Viper.
I don't think you have a concept of what cars costs in 2013. The base SRT is exactly inline with what almost all other Vipers was, inflation adjusted.
I love how you quote the price of a optioned car, with every box ticked as an example of average Gen V pricing.
Since I facilitate the sale of 15 20 ultra high end exotics a year I would hope I know what cars cost today..
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
So, you should know it is at the bottom end of the price scale for high performance cars then - so, the "every single aspect" seems a bit silly, since the viper runs right over almost everything.
In 2008 dollars the Gen IV would be MSRP of ~96k, add in govt mandated traction control and you land right at the price of the Gen V base.
So, how is it every gen prior was this mythical bargin, but the Gen V priced virtually the same is a rip off?
Do tell.
In 2008 dollars the Gen IV would be MSRP of ~96k, add in govt mandated traction control and you land right at the price of the Gen V base.
So, how is it every gen prior was this mythical bargin, but the Gen V priced virtually the same is a rip off?
Do tell.
PS COMPARE and CONTRAST features offered in other cars in the exact price range the 5 is in. Do any of them offer all wheel drive ,alum frames, dry sump systems carb fiber braking systems and dealer network to support a 150 k buyer. Yes a base 911 is more expensive than a base Viper your comparing a Dodge with a Porshe pedigree.Do you realize in the price range the cars now in PEDIGREE is extremely important to a would be buyer .
VENOM V
Enthusiast
I think the SRT Viper does compare well to cars in its price range. I'm glad it's not all wheel drive, keeps it light. The Viper's warm up lap will beat a comparably priced Porsche's fastest lap. The interior is night and day improved compared to previous Gen Vipers, and is in the neighborhood of Porsche quality. I agree with you on carbon ceramic brakes, I think it should be an option. My dealer is superb, but obviously not all the Viper dealerships are. The buyer needs to shop around, hopefully there are multiple Viper dealers nearby. There are 5 dealerships within about 20 miles of me, I ended up with a top notch dealer after walking away from the first dealership.
There is no perfect car, be realistic. The Gen V Viper is pretty spectacular to me, especially at its price. Nobody's gonna call the Gen V a fast piece of plastic, it is clearly way beyond that. Read the Road and Track comparo with the SLS Gullwing, pretty impressive results.
There is no perfect car, be realistic. The Gen V Viper is pretty spectacular to me, especially at its price. Nobody's gonna call the Gen V a fast piece of plastic, it is clearly way beyond that. Read the Road and Track comparo with the SLS Gullwing, pretty impressive results.
VENOM V
Enthusiast
EXCLUSIVITY, PERFORMANCE and DROP-DEAD GORGEOUS HALLE BERRY STYLING are more important to me than PEDIGREE. You're trying to lump all buyers in one box, but that's not the case. Like I said, SRT doesn't need to attract every buyer, let someone else buy the vanilla sports cars. Around 2,000 V-10 loving enthusiasts a year are all that need to buy this niche American supercar to turn a profit. The others can go buy Porsches, GT-R's and Corvettes. Fine by me, they're all good cars on their own merits. But they don't stir my soul like the mighty Viper.
Venom iam not looking at it from a personal standpoint (I wouldn't have close to 20 years of relationship with them if I didn't personally like them )iam looking at the 5 from a objective standpoint of what the car needs to be successful .The Gen 4s problem was it was a 60k car priced in the 90s .At near 150 k for an optioned 5 that is a ton of money to pay for a front engine Dodge without MANY of the technologic features and dealer support network its competition is offering .The reason the 5 didn't have these features was because SRT could afford to put them in there (Alum frames ,carb fiber brakes ,dry sump oiling are extremely expen to implement )Another factor is the horsepower at 640.Horsepower sells cars (that new ZR-1 going to be easily 750 plus .in the ident price range )Its a tough sell at 150 when the damn Mustang at one third the price has more power
Let me ask you this they couldn' tsell the Gen 4 in the 90s you really think 40 hp a nicer interior and a few body panels on the same chasis is worth 150k Only time will tell if your correct
Policy Limits
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well I'm pretty sure I fit the description of the new breed of viper buyer and here's my take. I shopped a Porsche 991 C4S against my Maserati purchase NOT against my Viper GTS purchase. For a sunday funday toy like the Viper I shopped it against McLaren...a car that wasn't to be utilized as a daily; just a fun cruiser. The McLaren test drive was fun but honestly it didn't look the part. I felt that once the novelty of the insect doors wore off (or once you closed them) that it wasn't as aesthetically impressive as a 458 Italia. So I looked at some Italia's. beautiful but I already know four guys with them in yellow, red, black and white. Then there's cost. My fully optioned GTS ran only mid 130's (with even the car cover option) which is a lot less than the others. On the exclusivity front I know several friends with the other subject vehicles and know zero people in my region building Gen V's right now. even if I do see one this season, I highly doubt it will be my color or with my options. So ultimately the relatively low cost coupled with the high exclusivity and performance numbers and all while its still a hand made supercar, did it for me.
I've heard SRT compare the gen V tires to the Veyron, the interior to the Bentley, the speed to weight ratio to the F12 and Bugatti. Its only on here and on the web that I've seen comparisons to Porsche or worse yet, to corvette. Bottom line its tons of car for the $$, one of the most exciting new supercars in production, and there's nothing else that interests me as much for this season.
I've heard SRT compare the gen V tires to the Veyron, the interior to the Bentley, the speed to weight ratio to the F12 and Bugatti. Its only on here and on the web that I've seen comparisons to Porsche or worse yet, to corvette. Bottom line its tons of car for the $$, one of the most exciting new supercars in production, and there's nothing else that interests me as much for this season.
VENOM V
Enthusiast
Agreed, time will tell and nobody knows. Glad to be a part of it before big cube cars eventually become extinct.
I think that the package they have put together is remarkable. I have always loved the Viper, and the refinement of the Gen V finally makes the car the right choice for me. I'm not yet skilled enough at the track to feel comfortable driving a 640 HP super car without traction and stability control (at least not at first, at a new track) so glad they implemented that. The refined interior and Uconnect, I want those for this price point. I think the Laguna Seca track record speaks volumes, on inferior tires. To answer your question, yes I think it's worth it. There are Track Pack SRTs with leather for around $108k for the purist that doesn't need the fluff, that's a bargain. So the buyer has price Vs. features options. Smart of SRT.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
LOL, 1BADGTS is sticking to that $150,000 price point like a child not letting go of a bowl of ice cream.
Hate to break the news to you Mr. New Breed Viper owner, but the Viper has always had those things.
Are you aware they only made about 700 Gen 4 ACR's in three years?
Many of which were one of three or or one of four colors?
For some reason I think your "friends" with Italia's will recover from their jealousy.
Mamba52
Enthusiast
I agree with you 1BadGTS. Wait until VenomV sells his Dodge in 4 years. His Uconnect can't save him.
patgilm
Enthusiast
Out of all of the potential owners out there I am really looking forward to your impressions when you get yours since you have never owned a previous Viper before. Given the types of cars you have had and considered, I want to know whether the quality of the Gen V meets your expectations. For most prior Viper owners of course the new interior is going to be incredible because of what they were used to in the prior gens. However, you are the real test so hopefully you get yours relatively soon.
Despite the lack of "technological features" the Viper manages to outperform most cars pitted against it on the track. Off the track you have very unique and distinctive styling and enough modern tech for the car to be viable as something driven daily. Its "primitive" pushrod engine also happens to have solid reliability which helps translate to a cost-of-ownership that is not through the roof. It being a Dodge means OEM parts are not going to have the super-inflated costs that come along with any of the import brands.
As for the price...the Gen 4 was probably overpriced at $90K but fair at $70K... I was not interested in that edition because it looked too much like a honda S2000. People who would want a car like the viper would most likely want the ****, aggressive styling you get with the Gen 5 that really makes it stand out from the pack.
Let's debunk this FUD you're spreading here:
Frame:
Boxed steel space frame with aluminum and magnesium sections. Weight is reduced without sacrificing durability - aluminum is a soft, flexible metal while steel provides more rigidity. Seems to me like SRT engineers were more interested in function over having something to market to wealthy-but-ignorant shoppers.
Oiling System:
Dry sump oiling systems are ideal for race cars since they cool oil down effectively and help remove bubbles that form from it splashing around. On the road under normal driving conditions they're sub-optimal because they keep the oil from getting warm enough to flow correctly, resulting in under lubrication. The Viper uses a swinging arm pickup that moves within the oil pan to ensure that the engine is always able to draw the maximum amount of oil during hard cornering. Internal baffles improve structural integrity while also ensuring that the oil stays evenly distributed in the pan, and it minimizes sloshing to prevent air bubbles from forming in the oil. A high volume gerotor pump keeps the oil flowing without leeching excessive HP from the engine - a dry-sump system requires multiple pumps to function which add more load to the engine in addition to being extra points of failure.
Carbon/Ceramic Brakes:
These perform well on the track where they will reach high temperatures, but do not fare so well on the street under typical driving conditions. It is likely that a set of ceramic rotors and pads will become available as an upgrade for those who want it. The viper's braking system itself is already great with 4-piston brembo calipers on all 4 corners, and with the track pack the Viper's braking system is more than capable in competitive use while remaining usable on the street.
Horsepower:
Maybe some people shop on horsepower figures alone but the viper is designed as a total package, and for its price point it has everything - performance, styling and exclusivity - that tends to exceed other vehicle options. Also, a few bolt-ons and some ECU tuning could get an extra 100 HP out of the engine without much effort.
Viper Vs Cheaper Cars with same or more horsepower:
Yes, you can build a 1000 HP mustang or a 900 HP honda but who cares...at the end of the day, neither of them are vipers and neither of them are built to control that power as effectively as the viper is. So a Viper with 640 HP is going to do better than a cheaper car with more HP in everything but a drag race (maybe). This quip also ignores the fact that you can increase the Viper's performance just as well.
SAVE IT THIS AINT FANTASYLAND.From my buddys who I raced with at McMullen Argus I know for a fact SRT ENGINEERS wanted ALL of the above features in the 5 (including 700 hp )but they simply didn't have platform money As far as racetrack perform being the ultimate determining factor of purchase in the 100k price pointt the GEN 4 Viper absolutely destroyed EVERYTHING out there on the track how well did that car sell.Buyers in this price strata want- expect EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the car to be first rate (tech features ,amenitys,,fit finish, features ,ride dealer servicingect )
Please stop with the BS it cheapens the feable argument your trying to make.If you truly believe those features you mentioned are not in there because they are not superior (MONEY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT )despite the fact that ultra high perf platform in the world has them I beg to differ.LOL Ferrarri , Porsche know nothing about selling high perf cars The operative word is SELLING .
Policy Limits
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Hate to break the news to you Mr. New Breed Viper owner, but the Viper has always had those things.
Are you aware they only made about 700 Gen 4 ACR's in three years?
Many of which were one of three or or one of four colors?
For some reason I think your "friends" with Italia's will recover from their jealousy.
I'll agree its always had those things but now it had things its never had like legally mandated safety controls, a world class interior and modern features...even has a new name. I've shopped for previous generations before including the Gen 4 and the interior scared me away. This model appears to have just even refinement to make it a world class GT car but while still maintaining its edge. The point wasn't that I was trying to make Ferrari guys jealous; it was that I'm glad I'm not going to be them
