2 Piece Performance Rotors

[dtittle]

Hi Guys,

We've just finished our High Performance Two Piece rotors for Vipers and are excited as they are the perfect addition for the steet car, the racer or the showman.

First, these rotors are direct replacements for your stock rotors but offer better appearance, cooling, performance, and will break all durability records compared to factory pieces. They are precision machined from the finest alloys with 6061-T6 aluminum hats and have custom metallurgy rotors. These rotors will work with all factory systems and can be used the most aggressive pad compounds and still operate MUCH COOLER than factory rotors. On my personal car these rotors have endured over 7000 grueling track miles and are still going strong!

And for those that care about appearances the rotors can be cross drilled, slotted, and zinc washed and the red anodized rotor hats can be can be custom ordered with your choice of colors.

Next, these rotors will provide you with BIG BRAKE performance while complying with the Viper Days class matrix since they are the same SIZE as the factory rotor.

Finally, once you buy the rotor hats you only need to purchase replacement rotors as necessary. Priced at $179 for the front and $159 for the rear the rotors are definitely the best value on the market.

The introductory pricing for all four (4) replacement rotors is $1,499.99 and we will begin shipping in as little as four (4) weeks. Interested parties should place orders as soon as possible to ensure your place in line. For more information, view product information at www.dilusi.com or contact us directly.

Regards,

 

[FrankBarba]

you had me interested until i read the price.

frank

 

[dtittle]

Hey Frank,

Good point but price is really relative to what you get up front and how much you spend long term.


Q: How much to factory rotors cost? ($200 each, guessing)


I've regularly sold used rotors for $150 and people snap them up like candy. I'll find out what they cost tomorrow.


Q: How much to brake pads cost and how long do they last on rotors that are too hot? (About $300 bucks and not long)

Brake pads are intended to work within specified temperature range and get totally whacked by rotors that are too hot or too cold.

Q: How long do factory rotors last on the track? (1 to 5 sessions, average if your hauling tail)

I've personally killed rotors in one session and have seen MANY, MANY, MANY others kill them just as quickly. Many of my friends in South Texas that run factory rotors regularly ruin stock rotors. AND factory rotors have the capability to GET VERY HOT and are horrible at dissipating heat. They are so bad in fact that when hot they heat treat every suspension component from wheel bearings, ball joints, tie rod ends, and everything else in sight. The most important thing that GETS TOO HOT is your brake fluid which leaves most people driving factory brakes with a constant feeling of insecurity due to brake fade.

Point and case, a good friend of mine sustained an unfortunate 20K+ damage to their Viper due to uncontrolled brake fade. I have personally been shunted off the track because I was in a situation where my stock brakes failed due to HEAT.

With good brakes those expensive situations would probably never happen.


Q: How much time does it take you to do a brake job at the track? I mean, replace rotors and pads.


Probably at least one hour. That's time spent getting dirty when you should be driving, or riding with Mumford, or visiting with Woodhouse or the like about how to get faster and safer, or giving Courney and Tracy a hard time. Or you could pay someone $95 bucks an hour at the track.


Q: How much does a MGW gas cap cost? ($400 guessing)

The WOW FACTOR of BIG BRAKES has got to be worth something to someone. Friend of mine spend 15g's on big brakes because after the wheels it's what most see first on a performance car.

So here's the numbers:
Rotors 4 x $200 = $800
Pads 1 x $300 = $300
Suspension 4 x $1500 = $6000
Wreck 1 x $20,000 = $20,000
Gawk Factory Priceless (No VISA Jokes here)
Labor 1 x $95 = $95
Gas Cap 1 x $400 = $400

Total $27,595

LOL...$27,595 DOLLARS because you had crappy brakes! THAT SOUNDS EXPENSIVE compared to $1500 worth of insurance. Oh I left out insurance.

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:

Just kidding around!

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Regards,

 

[Brad Manhattan Beach]

David:

Are your rotors fixed or floating hats? It makes a big difference on the track.

Thanks for your feedback.

Brad

 

[dtittle]

Hey Brad,

The rotors and hats are fixed mounts. We understand that everyone has different philosophies regarding this but we feel that floating rotors are unnecessary since their basic design is to cover up flaws that shouldn't exist. We machine five (5) critical surfaces to +-.0015 tolerances so in the worst case scenario the rotors will have acceptable (and undetectable) runout.

Regards,

 

[David Jenkins]

ok boys, here's the deal. you want to find out how good, or bad, your rotors are, send me a set and i'll throw them on Mumford's car...... real world testing. put them on a good heavy car with a great driver and let's see what they do. with the rules the past two years, it was impossible for us to add big brakes. now that we can go big, we will. do you think the car will be quicker? duh....the stock '01 rears won't clear a standard purner 17'' due to the head on the brake line attachment bolt. we're working on a rear kit for the '01s. until then, we'll be happy to evaluate almost anything you throw at us.dj

 

[dtittle]

Hi Guys,

As usual with brakes there are lots of questions most of them regarding the price. I’ll try to answer here without being too windy.

The cost break down of the kit is as follows:

Rotor Hats 4 $189.99 $759.96
Front Rotors 2 $179.99 $359.98
Rear Rotors 2 $159.99 $319.98
Hardware 4 $17.50 $70.00
Total $1,509.95

Package Price $1,499.99

The cost of the kit is an introductory price and depending on volume can change. The necessary and expensive component of the kit is the rotor hat. Fortunately these are only purchased once and after that you only need replace rotors and hardware as needed.

The 2 Piece Performance Rotors that we’re offering is the base platform for our second generation of BIG BRAKE kits for Vipers and are intended to be an another alternative for aftermarket brake systems.

The rotors are direct replacements for your stock parts and the rotor disk is custom manufactured from metal alloys that are extremely durable and dissipate heat efficiently. These rotors are so hard that a few customers that managed to wear their pads down completely found that the rotor chewed into the pad backing plate with absolutely no damage to the rotor. Other rotors would be obliterated in that situation. And, while we don’t recommend drilling or slotting the rotors for track use due to potential premature cracking and wear, those that care most about enhanced appearance or even show quality looks we can cross drill, slot, or coat the rotors. This process can be tailored to the individuals taste and can allow unrivaled appearances with a minimum of expense compared to other expensive alternatives.

The rotor hat is machined to aircraft tolerances from 6061-T6 aluminum and is anodized red but can be anodized many different colors if one desires. As many have asked “Why the price” the rotor hat is again the reason. It is essentially a one time purchase that allows you to use two piece rotors and it also provides the opportunity for better under wheel appearances. These rotor hats appear much BIGGER than are designed for those that desire a BIG BRAKE appearance with reasonable cost. Again, once you have the rotor hats replacement rotors are inexpensive.

Finally, because our factory replacement brakes adhere to the Viper Days rules matrix you shouldn’t be penalized any points for their use. When used in conjunction with properly match brake pads, stainless steel brake lines, adequate fluid, and minimal cooling these rotors will offer a definite advantage over any other factory replacement rotor. While providing a better “bite” and longer life these rotors will help keep you on the track as opposed to under your car!


While building brakes we have basic goals:
1) Provide safe, durable, and reliable packages that can be implemented in phases.
2) Should be economical to purchase and maintain.
3) Should bolt on to the vehicle without vehicle modifications.
4) Must fit beneath factory wheels with no clearance problems.
5) Should NOT require the user to modify the factory hard line, master cylinder, and proportioning system. This does not mean that ours, or any brake system couldn’t benefit from these changes, it simply means that our system must work in a manner that would satisfy 90% of all consumers.
6) Should maintain the ability to have a parking brake.

Every track capable brake kit available for Vipers has required cutting of the factory caliper mounting tabs in order to facilitate clearance. Even ours. But, in an attempt to meet the goals above we went back to the drawing board and figured out how to make brake kits for all four wheels of your Viper that meet or exceed all of the above criteria and is completely BOLT ON. Including the rear.

While making our next generation kits we also have attempted to meet the needs of many that have expressed the desire for a stock replacement rotor that will stand up to the worst abuse at the track and also have better looks. We hope we’ve done that with our 2 Piece Performance Rotors.

Hope this helps.

 

[dtittle]

Dear Bob,

I'm not quite sure what I've done to warrant your aggression but regardless of the reason, I apologize. I’ve thought and thought and searched my memory, but for the life of me, I cannot recall what I did. I do remember, however, our conversations prior to VOI6 and am clear regarding the condescending comments that you and Steve made to us even though we were nice to you. When Steve looked me in the eye and asked “And what degree do you have” I found the ability to laugh as it was uniquely humorous.

Although I could retort in many ways regarding your products I won’t. The reality is that I regularly refer customers to you because you are the appropriate choice for them. I’m sure you wouldn’t reciprocate, however, because you cannot tolerate the mention of my name without anxiety. Apparently you cannot accept that in some cases I build really good products.

Unlike you, I am not in this business for the money. On the contrary, I make a nice living architecting software and find the automotive business a wonderful outlet where I can provide my friends with good products at reasonable prices. You, on the contrary, are in this for the money and because of that your vision is blurred. I believe that you and your constituents are snobs and the very fact that you are so annoyed with us is flattery and proof that the offerings that we make are valid. Thank You.

Best Wishes to You,

David Tittle

 

[dtittle]

Hey David,

I accept!!! I accept!!! I accept!!! Please, I accept!!!

Last fall Paul and I discussed using my brakes on his car and agreed to build them for him but I was late to meet my committments due to medical and health problems. Fortunately, I have recovered completely and am in the final stages of completing the big brake kit that I promised Paul and that will work for all 2001 and all preceding year Vipers.

With this in mind and in conjunction with your proposal I am elated to provide a complete brake kit for review and consider Paul the "Perfect" person to do this. With this in mind, I will provide at no cost a complete brake package that I will personally install on Paul's car at ANY Mid-Year Viper Days event. In return, I ask only that the entire package be subjectively reviewed by Paul and as many Viper Day's constituants as possible and ask that the results be published in an unbiased manner on this board. I will do my best to bring a popular magazine for testing.

I also ask that StopTech and any other company that is willing to talk trash on this board be willing to outfit a 2001 Viper with their "Best Brakes" and put it in the hands of Mumford for some real world tests. On the other hand, if they can't put up, please shut up!

In pure Mumford speak. WAR BRAKES!!! If I have to buy and brand new 2001 in order to do these tests I will. No more Mr. Nice guy.

WAR BRAKES!!!

Tittle

 

[David Jenkins]

Thanks DT. How's it going? Didn't you have eye surgery or something like that? You got body slammed too? Hope you are doing better. Anyway, if possible, I would prefer to do the install myself to know the procedures in case we sell your products down the road. That way I can honestly tell my clients that it's something they can or cannot do on their own. For right now, we would like to do some "rotor only" testing. There are several aftermarket rotors available that work with the stock components. I would like to try these because I have quite a few clients who like to upgrade but do not want to spend $3,500 on a complete front kit. Many people just want a "better" than stock rotor that looks good. I've got guys that just want cross drilled race look although their cars never see the track. We sell 4 drilled stock street rotors for $1,000 all day. I prefer slotted rotors. The drilled ones are ok for the street look. What we are trying to find is a good aftermarket rotor that fits stock components that can handle some serious heat on the track. Of course there are guys that will spend over 5k for complete kits, but there are more clients willing to spend 1k for a better look with performance. It's this group that I think needs the attention. Give me a call at the shop sometime, I'm not sure if I'm going to Thunder with Paul this weekend.dj

 

[David Jenkins]

Ouch! Pretty good smack Tittle! I'm not blasting anyone that does brakes. I've read the trash, now I want to know first hand, through our own testing, who's stuff can take the Mumford test. I don't bad mouth any product unless I know from personal experience that it's crap, and even then I try not to talk trash. I've heard good and bad about almost everything. I don't take it for gospel unless I know for a fact that it's true. We are lining up some brake pad testing for a major manufacturer, and are assisting in developement and testing of a rear kit with parking brake. Everyone knows Mumford is bad a**. So we are open to anyone who wants to jump in and get their brakes beat on.dj

 

[Brad Manhattan Beach]

Hi Guys:

I don't mean to deflect from this great cat fight, but I don't think that Stop Tech has anything to prove when it comes to racing durability. Here is a link for you:
http://www.p-e-m.com/template.cfm?content=news&news_id=52

They also had their brakes running on the #10 Genesis racing BMW M3 that finished 9th overall in the 24 hours of Daytona race. The 355mmx32 mm STOPTECH AeroRotors and drive pin system lasted the entire 24 hours. According to Bill Auberlen the lead professional driver on the team "this is unprecedented for the front rotors of BMW M3 to last the entire 24 hours and is a tribute to the improved performance of the STOPTECH AeroRotors" The STOPTECH AeroRotor features a patent pending vane design that improves airflow and cooling and also features a proprietary high quality metalurgy.

I know that Paul can run with the best out there, but what does it prove, that wasn't proven on these two race cars? Running 2 hours of qualifying and the entire 24 hour race at Daytona on one set of rotors says it all.

 

[dtittle]

Hey Brad (StopTech Customer and Loyal Representative at Large),

First, please help me understand why you guys have to waive your credentials in an attempt to belittle someone else? I simply don’t understand this! StopTech builds great brakes and everyone knows that! I personally referred many customers to them last year because I acknowledge that in certain circumstances their products make more sense than mine and I care more about the customer than the sale. If others accept ST why can’t they maturely acknowledge others?

Next, while it’s great that you’re trying to “Calm down the Catfight”, I curious why you started it in the first place? I mean really! Why do you need to post a hooking question on my thread when you already know the answer? Don’t play dumb Brad because you do this on every auto board known. While your loyalty is awesome you must know that when you do that kind of thing and if I “Bite” Bob is going to come out punching with belittling statements like “You better get your facts straight” or some other condescending garbage or public technical scrutiny! Gees, in a similar situation, Steve even had the gall to ask “What my DEGREE was in”. When you guys aggress like that you how do you expect people to respond? In response to Steve I simply said “Third” (degree that is) and all of the other times you’ll never know how much fun it is poking at you.

Finally, I think that you guys should deal with the fact that you or no one else is the “all knowing obewan of brakes”. If you don’t like what someone else says or posts, don’t read it. And when you arbitrarily lump yourselves with the “Premier” braking companies like Brembo I personally feel you’re a little TOO arrogant of you because you haven’t earned it yet. I’m sure you will but you need a few more 24 hours of Daytona or FIA wins to bragg that much. Congratulation on that BTW!

As it stands today there are many other companies that make GREAT brakes. BrakeMan, Shawn Roe, and us are perfect examples of companies that make brakes systems that are perfect for situations where yours aren’t. But unlike you guys, most of us don’t feel the need to pound others with our credentials in order to feel better. Would you respect us more to know that we have refused solicitations from Brembo and Alcon to use their products? Or maybe that there are many people running if Viper Days that will forego the points loss to use our brakes over Alcon, Brembo, or even yours? Or that in less than one year we became one of the largest distributors of Wilwood brakes as we sold 50 Viper packages and many Corvette kits. That’s over 200 calipers and 200 rotors some of them at $500 bucks each. Or maybe that on a couple of occasions this year you have lost business to us because we were the right choice.

I hope you take the ribbing in good fun as it’s intended. If not, maybe it would help you to repeat this little ditty every day on your way to work. Here goes: “Hi we’re StopTech brakes! We’re smart! We’re funny! And gosh darn it, we make good brakes”! Repeat.

Anyway, and like I said, it’s all in fun!

C-ya,

 

[dtittle]

Hey David,

I had a cornea transplant in my left eye since I was essentially blind with 20/600 vision prior but have 20/40 now. It took a while to heal as that's a pretty sensitive area. The very day I was feeling better a friend of mine performed a train wreck style body slam on me and broke everything in sight. He meant no harm he was just PO'd that my rotors don't float. It was really a freak accident. I'm healed now and am ready to get into some MumfleWars.

These rotors are in between upgraded factory kits and expensive full blown brake kits. They're diverse too as they can be used for appearance, performance, or both. There are those that squawk about the price but aren't seeing the big picture as $1,499 is almost the actual cost of parts and comparing them to $99 replacement rotors is apples to oranges. There's definitely demand for them since I sold three sets yesterday.

I'm certainly willing to put my money where my mouth is. I'll give you and Paul a set of these rotors and since StopTech won't show I'll even buy a set of StopTechs rotors to test. Gee I'll even send brand new front and rear PFC pads. Oh, I forgot, StopTech doesn't believe the rear brakes DO ANYTHING so in fairness, maybe you should completely remove the rears when we test their rotors. And since all of ST's literature claims that if you "Induce" airfflow the rotors will be cooler, maybe we can get Bob and Steve to come out and provide some of their abundant air. Whaddyathink?

Hey Paul, since I'm a rookie at Mumflespeak, so I don't know it's okay to talk trash about Bob's sister? And, how do you spell pinoche? Pinocha? Please help! Anyway, if it is okay, I'll put my sister against Bob's sister test any day. I can bring her "fully loaded" and can throw in for a full day of endurance testing and induced airflow. WAR Ummm?...INDUCED AIRFLOW, Yeah!

I need some more lessons but I kind of like this Mumfleslang! Heck you can WAR anything! WAR "PREMIER" BRAKES! WAR "FLOATING" ROTORS! (I never understood why mine sink?)

Hey Bob, if a rotor expands 2mm when heated, how much does a rotor HAT expand? And how do you become a "Premier" brake company! Is it based on sales or self image? Or do I simply have to make floating rotors in order to hang with you guys?

Having Fun.

 

[David Jenkins]

ok, that's it, I quite. I'm going to go play somewhere else. Brad, I'm not trying to prove anything by putting on Stoptech rotors or brake package. Obviously it works good on Beemers. My point being, I've heard all the stories about everyones brakes. I've heard that Stoptech, Dilusi, Brembo, Roe, etc. ****! Now, do you think that that's entirely true? Of course not. I've also heard that Stoptech, Dilusi, Brembo, Roe, etc. are the best! Do you get it? You would not believe the trash talk people tell me. I try not to repeat this stuff to anyone except Mumford. I don't bad mouth unless I know it's true. I'm not slamming any of the brake guys. They all have been "proven" in some way, just not my way. I built a car for Dario Francitti's crew chief. He swears by Alcon and Dynamic. That doesn't mean we're going to drop $$ for an Alcon kit. I'd just like to know from personal experience if this stuff works in our situation, on our car, with Mumford driving. I'll just take our 1:25 at Willow, with stock brakes, and go play somewhere else. "Can't we yawl just get along?"dj