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2014 TA Track Attack #8, CTMP (Mosport) Aug 6, 2014...The 90 Minute Enduro

Discussion in 'Generation V Discussions / SRT Coupe, GTS, GTC, AC' started by Bruce H., Aug 9, 2014.

  1. Bruce H.

    Bruce H. Enthusiast

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    I was back at the track to focus on a couple of things I thought I could improve in my driving. I’ve built a lot of confidence over the last 3.5 months of driving and tracking it, and now that I’m there, and lap times have really improved, further gains are going to have to come from improved driving. The areas I’m working on are:

    -looking further ahead
    -using lower gears to provide harder acceleration exiting corners
    -brake later, harder, and get back onto the throttle quicker

    It was another 6th Gear open lapping day, open only to advanced drivers, but unfortunately it was fully booked. They did however allow me to come at 3 pm, as they knew some cars would have started packing up by then. That was the case, but it’s a bit tricky going out cold onto a track with guys that have been warming up all day and have become both very fast, and in some cases, quite aggressive. I needed to warm up my brain and tires quickly.

    I’m not sure the brain ever quite got there, and the tires seemed to take quite a while also. I reduced pressures to 26 psi cold to allow for initial increase from heating, pitting three times to check and reduce ever-increasing pressure. I settled on 32 psi hot, half way between the 30 I had been running, and the 34 that Erich at SRT recommended I try with the Pirelli Corsas that come on the TA (and Track Pack optioned Vipers). I’m still on the originals, with the fronts worn almost down to the wear bars on the outside half of the tread face. Inside face definitely has more tread, showing that even more negative camber would be beneficial beyond the 2.5 degrees that the TA comes with. Erich recommended 2.7 to 2.8 to Venom V and myself at Homecoming, and VV has recently done just that. I will as well soon. Rear tires are barely worn, and might even out last a new set of fronts.

    [​IMG]

    The car handled well, but different in a couple of ways this time around. Where I had been getting just a hint of push (understeer) going really hot into some tight corners, that was now completely gone, even though I was attacking the corners more aggressively I think. But instead I was getting the rear a bit loose, both under braking and throttle on exit. It may be that the Corsa’s grip is increasing as the tread wears down on the front, much like the Toyo RA1 R-compound that peaks when almost all tread is gone, but you might also expect the grip to be reduced from many track heat cycles and driving over 7000 miles. Either way I continue to be very impressed with this tire. The rears may have seemed to lose grip because the fronts had improved more relative to the rears, and my corner speeds increased just enough to exceed their grip, or perhaps it’s got something to do with the extra 2 psi.

    [​IMG]

    Further evidence of the tires maintaining their grip is the consistency of the car's peak G-Force recorded in the SRT function pages. I had reset it to zero on the way to the track and it then matched the same peak cornering grip as had been recorded in my first 7 track days at 1.5 g both left and right, and slightly improved in braking g's at 1.44g. That's awfully impressive considering the heavily worn front tires.

    [​IMG]

    The other change to handling is that my rear wiggle under braking returned after vanishing 3 track days ago. The only change I can think of is the extra 2 psi. I continue to use “Track” ESC and “Race” damper modes. I’m back out on the 19th and will play with pressures a bit. I only notice it under extremely hard braking at very high speed, which is every 95 seconds or so at the end of the back straight at speeds a hair over 150 mph at times. Once I pitted to check tire pressures and brake pad smoke was wafting out between the spokes. Normally you do a cool down lap prior to pitting, and I usually do a slow lap around the paddock parking areas to have some moving air help cool them. Love the TA’s brakes, can’t fault them, but I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of needing to upgrade pads or fluid if I ever went with slicks and dramatically increased the braking loads. Brake pads miraculously still have close to a ½” of material left front and rear. That’s awesome considering what I’ve put them through!

    [​IMG]

    I really think many of you would be astonished just how fast and well-mannered the TA is on track, how dominating it is over most high performance cars, and how competitive it is with the best of the best… and I’m sure the same applies to the SRT and GTS models. An Aventadore is probably the only stock production car I’ve encountered so far that was as fast or faster on a straightaway. Both of these cars haul like they’re modded, and I at least know that the TA can go the distance running strong and cool. A well-driven new 911 GT3 (991) with every nanny known to man couldn't keep up. He raved about the DCT, it probably had CCB’s too, but while I respect the car and was truly happy for the man having found a car he enjoyed, the contrast in approach to performance just made me appreciate the Viper that much more.

    I tested the Viper's endurance over a solid 90 minutes of continuous aggressive tracking, with only very quick stops to check tires and one 10 minute pit where they had to stop the whole track. Some Porsche driver ed/lapping days I've been to ran a 90 minute enduro, with a mandatory 5 minute break. That was a signiture and popular feature of their events, and my restricted track time at this event created that opportunity, and I pitted with only fumes left in the tank! Temps stayed well within the normal range, tire grip didn't become greasy from over-heating, and I didn't get fatigued at the wheel. I was so focused on getting the car and myself safely warmed up in a hurry that I basically didn’t spend much time working on my goals. On the break a woman on pit lane asked if she could go for a ride-along with me and I reluctantly agreed to it. It further distracted me, but it turned out she had won the day at the track in a contest, and I was happy to make it memorable. She said she had always wanted to go for a ride in a Viper…and I'm pretty sure I gave her one to remember!

    The next event is on a smaller and safer track at Mosport, and I’ll be using that to hopefully get the car loose to practice driving on the limits of adhesion, and regaining control after exceeding them. Things could get a little messy, but exceeding the limits is an invaluable lesson in learning to drive within them. In September I'll have the pleasure of a private coaching day at Mosport with SRT team driver Kumo Wittmer. We'll be using data-logging to identify opportunities for improvement, and I plan to be as prepared as possible.

    I was unable to upload an 8 minute video segment moving through traffic, but here it is broken into shorter segments. I'll post the link to the fix once I figure it out.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElNwecHk6mI
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2GxW5TvcLc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSEeJAbgUrM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHNcSntss48
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyMZ9pPGGG8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scPkIZNpA5Y

    And just when I started to do a cool-down lap I noticed the event owner's full-on race car in my side mirror coming up behind and thought it's be nice to follow him for a moment. He then started his cool-down as well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CQSkEzGeFs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIW3L86Yvf8

    Thanks for your interest, and thanks to our friends at SRT for their passion and daring in designing and building such an engaging, uncompromising and unapologetic driver’s car. I hope a lot more serious enthusiasts will discover the Gen V Viper in its natural habitat where it rules supreme! And if you don’t happen to need world-class supercar performance I think there’s still a pretty good chance you just might fall in love with this exotic for a very broad range of other good reasons!

    Here's a once in a lifetime video comparison test by EVO magazine of some of the best analogue exotic supercars ever built. They share the Viper's same goals and virtues, all are magnificent, and all are wonderfully flawed. This look back really helps put today's Viper into perspective, and how it will become more appreciated into the future. My all-time favorite video review, and it's time very well-spent. Enjoy!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCpCbZaD8xc&feature=player_embedded&list=UUFwzOXPZKE6aH3fAU0d2Cyg

    Bruce
     
  2. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    As usual, a great write up and videos. Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  3. Free2go

    Free2go Enthusiast

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    Could you please give us a more detailed accounting of this ^^? We're the seats easy to clean?
     
  4. Nsane1

    Nsane1 Enthusiast

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    Wow, great write up, 1.44g, very impressive!
     
  5. Free2go

    Free2go Enthusiast

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    And did you wipe off the dash before things dried?
     
  6. pathoguy

    pathoguy Enthusiast

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    Looked at some of the videos.....awesome. As someone who will never race his Gen 5, I really enjoyed watching someone who does.....quite a thrill actually. I got a little anxious a couple of times and found myself gripping the mouse tighter.... Closest I will ever get to see how these cars can really perform in capable hands.
     
  7. FrankBarba

    FrankBarba Enthusiast

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    Bruce...If your only heating your tires up to 32 your not as good as you think....unless i read it wrong, then sorry....
     
  8. Dom426h

    Dom426h Enthusiast

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    I read it as he decreased the pressure a few times to get to his target of 32.
    Frank, do you recommend running a higher psi?

    "I reduced pressures to 26 psi cold to allow for initial increase from heating, pitting three times to check and reduce ever-increasing pressure. I settled on 32 psi hot, half way between the 30 I had been running, and the 34 that Erich at SRT recommended I try with the Pirelli Corsas that come on the TA (and Track Pack optioned Vipers)."
     
  9. Bruce H.

    Bruce H. Enthusiast

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    Thanks, guys...glad you enjoyed it. If you ever get a chance to ride along for a few laps in one just do it! It'll give you a whole new appreciation for the car.
    Dom's right...I kept letting more and more air out every as they heated up. I'm sure I'd have hit 100 psi otherwise and really impressed the hell out of you :)
     
  10. sunsalem

    sunsalem Enthusiast

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    +1
    Great stuff.:)
     
  11. lawdogg149

    lawdogg149 Viper Owner

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    Great write up!!! Glad to see others like to drive like me. Also see you make the same mistake I make. "taking your had off the wheel to give the courtesy wave as your passing someone" I know I do it too. That will be something a good instructor will try to beat out of you. Notice how you drift some as you wave to the guy in the lambo. Not busting your balls because I do it as well. I just feels good to make those kind of passes. Anyhow thanks a lot for the feedback I will be taking my gen V out for her maiden track voyage in a couple of weeks at Road Atlanta. I see that you are bouncing around a lot at speed so Im going to get a harness on the way soon. That would be the only mod I see that I will need thanks to you. Shiny side up my friend. thanks again.
     
  12. Bruce H.

    Bruce H. Enthusiast

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    Thanks, and congrats on your recent acquisition! The harness is a given for a track rat, but I'd also have an alignment done to increase camber, particularly the front. The TA is set at 2.5f, but SRT recommends more like 2.7-2.8 if you can get it. My TA feels great at that but I can confirm that more would provide more even wear, despite a lot of street miles relative to track use. Your GTS has a lot less camber, and Venom V has just done this on his GTS and posted in a couple of different treads about it recently (check this forum and the other).

    I drove RA several years ago in a track modified Supra TT, with some Vipers on track and many Z06, and I can't wait to get the TA back there. Perfect track for the Gen V. I assume you've been there before. You will find the car grips and turns in so well that the lead up to, and speed down through the downhill esses will be incredible, left T5 at the bottom sure-footed, seriously high g's through the banked T6, drama-free through the hard T7 in 2nd and up through the gears and grabbing 5th before crossing over T9 and cresting at 150+ mph. I love the TA's brakes but I would be incredibly surprised if you wouldn't benefit from at least a brake fluid upgrade on the GTS because the downhill into the hard left T10a has to be one of the most demanding brake zones anywhere and is going to come at you awfully fast unless you start lifting off the throttle early. Grip and handling should allow great speed coming down the hill into T12 and sling-shotting you onto the front straight. Geez...do a write-up on your day there ASAP!
     
  13. Bruce H.

    Bruce H. Enthusiast

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    Took the car in for an oil change, brake bleed, CEL and some other work.

    The TA rotors have become so hot that the steel has hardened...that's the streaks on the front rotor. Rears are fine. How are others making out with the TA brakes, or StopTechs on the Track Pack and GTS cars on the track?

    [​IMG]

    The TA brake pads are extremely durable on the track. Front new pad thickness vs my original pads with over 7000 miles and 8 track days for reference...only about 1/8" of pad thickness worn. Rear pads worn less. i'm used to a set of stock pads lasting 1-3 track days, depending on track. How are others with Stop Tech and TP/GTS brakes making out on the track?

    [​IMG]

    I've mentioned scraping my splitter under extreme braking into two different right hand corners. It turns out it is the stock wheel well deflectors, with my left one ground down a half inch compared to the right! These are not supposed to have been installed in any car supplied with the Advanced Aero front splitters according to Erich of SRT. Mine have now been removed. Maybe the car can be lowered for track use afterall???

    [​IMG]

    I had the rear knuckle support installed on both sides. This prevents the wheel from causing additional damage if the knuckle breaks do to an impact on the street or track.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Front tires are almost down to the wear bars but I think they've got maybe two more days left on them before the cords show on the shoulders. Either way that's when the'll come off and new fronts go on. Rears are still perfect.

    I had a Check Engine Light (CEL) come on at the track and put the engine into "limp mode" (no power). It eventually cleared and the car felt almost normal, but down a bit on power i thought. A stored code indicated a defective O2 sensor which was replaced under warranty. This could explain why my lap times didn't improve on this day, and hopefully they will now that I've got full power back.

    I also have the engine hood weatherstripping coming away like others. Apparently the carbon fiber hood nneded to be cleaned of residue better for these self stick strips to adhere. New ones on order.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. sunsalem

    sunsalem Enthusiast

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    Exactly where are these "wheel deflecters" located?

    Have you or do you plan on lowering your car?
     
  15. Bruce H.

    Bruce H. Enthusiast

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    They are actually air deflectors mounted ahead of the wheels in the front fender wells in the picture with the two screws shown. They hang down and that's why I was scraping them at times under hard braking.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. lawdogg149

    lawdogg149 Viper Owner

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    Really interested to see why SRT didn't want to leave them on. My car still has them as well. I have the advanced aero too. Should I remove or not ? Not sure of any improvements if I removed them. Please let me know what you found out.
     
  17. zim32

    zim32 Viper Owner

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    I recall having read, in a previous thread, that they were beneficial and very necessary when tracking to eliminate possible lift by rechanneling air circulation from wheel wells...
     
  18. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    In the case of the non advanced aero equipped Gen V, they are necessary to achieve the claimed top speed and help with drag a little at highway speeds. But in the case of the Aero equipped cars, they are not needed. They are easy to take off if so desired.
     
  19. Bruce H.

    Bruce H. Enthusiast

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    The air deflectors serve an "aero" function at high speed, and are used on some other cars as well. The addition of the Advanced Aero Package front splitter obviously changes everything about the front aero, and SRT's Erich Herschele, responsible for Viper's chassis and handling, made a point of telling me that installing them with the Aero Package was a factory error and suggested I remove them. It made sense to me, and he is the guy that would know for sure. I don't think anything evil will happen if anyone chooses to leave them on...but if you're worried about that then just take them off as recommended.
     
  20. sunsalem

    sunsalem Enthusiast

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    Ah, OK, thanx for the info.
     
  21. jjrho

    jjrho Enthusiast

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    the 1.5g you pulled...laterally....is it possible that you did more but viper only shows upto 1.5 ??
    wondering 'cause at recent so.cal. viper track day, one of the TAs that had the fastest time, had 1.5 as well.... max, i think...

    jR
     
  22. Bruce H.

    Bruce H. Enthusiast

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    Yes, 1.5g is the max it will display, and I've recorded it under braking now as well. I'll check datalogging I've been doing recently as well to try to see if I can better see what the actual max is.
     
  23. ACRBruce

    ACRBruce Enthusiast

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    Wonder how easy would it be to get Dodge to release a software update to remove the cap on the display?
     

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