May not have to worry about 2015 Z06

MoparMap

VCA National President
VCA Officer
Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Posts
2,431
Reaction score
268
Location
Kansas
Yea I know that's a cute saying, but then a 700 lb/ft of tq turbo diesel truck would win races against Ferrari's. When defending lower HP cars, this is nice marketing, although they tend to have low tq as well, lol. I'd argue it's easily an equal formula, making tons of tq I one thing, making it quicker is HP, and acceleration is dependent on both.

I think Jorgenson's youtube video is similar (can't see at the office), but it is rather impressive what some of those diesel trucks can do at the drag strip. It's not unheard of to see a monster 5000+ pound truck launch into the 10s and even 9s. Pretty fun way to embarass some supercars if you're clever =P.
 

swexlin

Viper Owner
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Posts
1,357
Reaction score
0
Location
West Chester, PA
I think Jorgenson's youtube video is similar (can't see at the office), but it is rather impressive what some of those diesel trucks can do at the drag strip. It's not unheard of to see a monster 5000+ pound truck launch into the 10s and even 9s. Pretty fun way to embarass some supercars if you're clever =P.

There are some monster built, street driven Cummins trucks in my truck club, and it's pretty amazing what they can do.
 

Stealth

Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Posts
536
Reaction score
0
Location
SoCal
The title of this thread is perplexing. 3500 lbs for the C7Z is really not heavy and lighter than I was expecting. It will be an excellent car and a good evolution of the C6ZR1 and will be an awesome performer at a great price. The Gen V was the choice for me but I applaud GM for the C7Z.
 

05Commemorative

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Posts
480
Reaction score
0
Location
Sammamish, WA
I guess it depends on your perspective. 3500 is heavy for a zo6 replacement as several hundred lbs heavier. Now, if you view as a zr1 replacement, then you are correct in not much difference
The title of this thread is perplexing. 3500 lbs for the C7Z is really not heavy and lighter than I was expecting. It will be an excellent car and a good evolution of the C6ZR1 and will be an awesome performer at a great price. The Gen V was the choice for me but I applaud GM for the C7Z.
 
OP
OP
J

James1

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Posts
20
Reaction score
0
I was comparing it to the ZR1 since both are supercharged, but the ZR1 weighed 3353.
 

drl650

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Posts
45
Reaction score
0
Location
Cape Coral FL
It is a little fat but with todays technology and the Z06 is full of new technology it will be a beast, And from what the engineers have stated back several months ago before the final tune and numbers were released, They stated the New Z06 had posted the fastest track times around Milford than any other car they have ran around the track including the ZR1. We should have some numbers posted very soon. I really want a new Viper but My bum shoulder wont allow me to shift a stick, I really wish the Viper would offer a auto style trans, So I will have to buy a new Z06 with auto trans. Don't hate me I love the Viper but cant shift the damn thing. lol.... I am just a car guy so don't hate me for buying
the Z06...
 

FLL-B/W-GTS

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Posts
575
Reaction score
0
Agreed, forget that old shifting thing. Super fast shifting ,high tect and boosted cars are the future.The new Z06 will be a quarter mile and track monster at bargain price . One thing for sure, their will not be hundreds of them they can not sell sitting in the dealer showrooms. So,lets see what Dodge has in store for future Snakes ,if they make any more...

The only Snake now to buy is a TA,that will be the best of the last new Vipers and will retain its value and is the best performer....
 

Free2go

Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Posts
3,290
Reaction score
6
Agreed, forget that old shifting thing. Super fast shifting ,high tect and boosted cars are the future.The new Z06 will be a quarter mile and track monster at bargain price . One thing for sure, their will not be hundreds of them they can not sell sitting in the dealer showrooms. So,lets see what Dodge has in store for future Snakes ,if they make any more...

The only Snake now to buy is a TA,that will be the best of the last new Vipers and will retain its value and is the best performer....

Yawn.........
 

sunsalem

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Posts
324
Reaction score
0
Well the Viper is actually proven formidable yet........................
The TA is the stand-out, due to its handling abilities.
The other 2 didn't break new performance milestones of consequence when compared to the G4.


I really want a new Viper but My bum shoulder wont allow me to shift a stick...
Ah, you must be old like me!:D

Seriously, I hear ya on that.
The Viper base is getting older and every day find it harder physically to do things that were once easy to do.:eek:


Agreed, forget that old shifting thing. Super fast shifting ,high tect and boosted cars are the future.The new Z06 will be a quarter mile and track monster at bargain price . One thing for sure, their will not be hundreds of them they can not sell sitting in the dealer showrooms. So,lets see what Dodge has in store for future Snakes ,if they make any more...

The only Snake now to buy is a TA,that will be the best of the last new Vipers and will retain its value and is the best performer....
No argument here.;)
 

drl650

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Posts
45
Reaction score
0
Location
Cape Coral FL
Ah, you must be old like me!:D

Seriously, I hear ya on that.
The Viper base is getting older and every day find it harder physically to do things that were once easy to do.:eek:

LMAO, Not too old just a couple of real bad surgeries, I currently have severe bone on bone and the Dr. wants to perform a shoulder replacement, I am not ready for that just yet. also waiting on low back surgery Disc replacement, damn I am falling apart. Love the Viper but will have to enjoy the Z due to the offering of an auto trans.
 

JeffInDFW

Viper Owner
Joined
Jun 23, 2013
Posts
32
Reaction score
0
http://www.hotrod.com/feature_stories/1412_the_2015_corvette_z06s_lt4_v8/viewall.html

They are saying the Active Fuel Management lifters limited the camshaft in the LT4, and there is more power available there.

Sample:
The 0.551-inch lift on the LT1 intake and the LT4 exhaust is no coincidence; it’s the limit of the Active Fuel Management (AFM) lifters. The AFM system allows half of the engine to shut off by controlling oil to the four sets of lifters. With the lifters collapsed, the cam’s lift isn’t transferred to the valves and fuel is also shut off for those cylinders while the rest of the engine continues to run as a V4.

We asked Lee how much power was left in the factory fuel system. He told us that the limit is the DI pump, not the in-tank pump. Because the factory tune has to keep emissions components longevity in mind, they enrich the air/fuel ratio a bit, meaning there’s some “cushion” beyond the current 650hp rating, although there’s not a whole lot of room for a factory tune to eke out more power. However, he knows there are ways, adding “the aftermarket will do what the aftermarket will do.” By the way, the folks at Lingenfelter are already privy to the part number of the LT4’s Stanadyne direct-injection fuel pump.

When posed with the same question, Jordan Lee told us there’s still some power to be had: “I think there’s more in that supercharger.” John Rydzewski, who admitted that some early iterations of the LT4 were producing around 680 lb-ft of torque, was also free to admit where to find more power: “Open up the exhaust system and work with the camshaft.” If it weren’t for the stringent emissions requirements, “There’s a lot of room to move around on the camshaft.”


Again, Ford and Chevrolet work WITH the aftermarket......
 

sunsalem

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Posts
324
Reaction score
0
waiting on low back surgery Disc replacement, damn I am falling apart.
I had low back fusion surgery about 20 years ago...all I can say is DON'T.:curse:


Love the Viper but will have to enjoy the Z due to the offering of an auto trans.
I hope Dodge gets their act together soon or I will have to do the same.
 

05Commemorative

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Posts
480
Reaction score
0
Location
Sammamish, WA
please go back to the table for all three GenV viper models times at Laguna before you make the statement on handling capabilities.

The TA is the stand-out, due to its handling abilities.
The other 2 didn't break new performance milestones of consequence when compared to the G4.



Ah, you must be old like me!:D

Seriously, I hear ya on that.
The Viper base is getting older and every day find it harder physically to do things that were once easy to do.:eek:


No argument here.;)
 

VIPER GTSR 91

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 11, 2003
Posts
3,789
Reaction score
0
Location
Spring, Texas
Prices were just released for the C7 Z06. Starting at $78,995.
True and a better bargain than a new Viper but after adding options that most owners want, the price is a LOT higher. Very few buy stripped versions. It IS a very awesome looking car to say the least.
 

sunsalem

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Posts
324
Reaction score
0
True and a better bargain than a new Viper but after adding options that most owners want, the price is a LOT higher. Very few buy stripped versions. It IS a very awesome looking car to say the least.
Agreed.


For you guys who are in the know about the Viper, Do you see an Auto style trans in the next 6 to 12 months or at least an announcement?
I'm not "in the know," but am hoping we hear something soon.

Dodge obviously didn't want to go to the expense (?) of putting one in at the launch of the G5.
However, Corvette may force their hand now.
 

Twister

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Posts
3,140
Reaction score
1
All genV Vipers doing 1.34 or better at that track. GenV is amazing
 

sunsalem

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Posts
324
Reaction score
0
All genV Vipers doing 1.34 or better at that track. GenV is amazing
As are the ZR1 and the Z06 (both are considerably older cars).
Notice only the TA beat the 5 year old technology of the ZR1 (the C6 Z06 dates to 2005).

I don't want to even SEE the numbers the new Z06 will put up.:eek2:
 

05Commemorative

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Posts
480
Reaction score
0
Location
Sammamish, WA
Please, look at the whole chart. The ZR1 from 5yrs ago has a much slower time. It was only the last model year that had the perf you speak of. to suggest it was 5yr tech is not accurate, atleast when coming to handling. Just saying overstating things like you are is not super helpful when true data exists in the chart.

I get it, you want to excited about the new Z06, but it does weight 200+ lbs more than its prior model. It might be faster (you would hope a later model would be), but it might not be.

As are the ZR1 and the Z06 (both are considerably older cars).
Notice only the TA beat the 5 year old technology of the ZR1 (the C6 Z06 dates to 2005).

I don't want to even SEE the numbers the new Z06 will put up.:eek2:
 

05Commemorative

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Posts
480
Reaction score
0
Location
Sammamish, WA
Just highlighting the facts from the chart. Is it just me that sees 3 of the 4 top times are Vipers and 2 of them are GenV's. Go hunt for the new stingray. Go hunt for the early years of the ZR1. It does tell a more complete story.

Now, if only they were able to run a 30min test for each and show you the times then, that would be a useful test that tells the whole story.

1. SRT Viper TA 1:33.62 139 '13 649 / 1520 Randy Probst
2. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:33.70 138 '08 647 / 1530 Randy Pobst
3. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 1:33.92 138 '08 608 / 1536 Chris Winkler
4. SRT Viper GTS 1:34.23 138 '13 649 / 1560 Randy Probst
5. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 1:34.43 137 '11 512 / 1394
6. McLaren MP4-12C 1:34.50 137 '10 600 / 1434 Randy Pobst
7. SRT Viper 1:34.63 137 '13 659 / 1520 Randy Probst
8. Mercedes SLS AMG Black Series 1:35.03 136 '13 631 / 1550 Randy Pobst
9. Devon GTX 1:35.08 136 0 659 / 0
10. Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 1:35.40 136 '11 700 / 1575 Randy Pobst
11. Porsche 911 GT2 RS 1:35.56 136 '10 620 / 1370 Johannes van Overbee
12. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:35.80 135 '08 647 / 1530 Randy Pobst
13. Ferrari 458 Italia 1:36.22 135 '09 570 / 1485 Randy Pobst
14. Nissan GT-R 1:36.30 135 '12 550 / 1736 Randy Pobst
15. Nissan GT-R 1:36.35 135 '11 530 / 1736
16. Lexus LFA 1:36.39 135 '10 560 / 1609
17. Audi R8 GT 1:36.39 135 '10 560 / 1520
18. Nissan GT-R 1:36.63 134 '12 550 / 1736 Randy Pobst
19. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 1:36.77 134 '10 450 / 1400
20. Porsche 911 Turbo 1:37.80 133 '09 500 / 1570
21. Ferrari F12 Berlinetta 1:38.04 132 '12 740 / 1725 Randy Pobst
22. Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 1:38.28 132 '14 461 / 1577 Randy Pobst
23. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:38.70 131 '08 647 / 1530 Car and driver
 

Stealth

Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Posts
536
Reaction score
0
Location
SoCal
I believe the GTS gen5 Viper that randy tested was the one with mismatched tires a bad alignment in the 2013 brakes which were not the same as the 2014 GTS brakes and rotors unless they were the $3150 Track Pack brakes. That car--as provided-- was still only about a half a secondoff the TA time per the chart above. Not sure if the gts had the Corsas.

the bottom line is that the Viper Gen 5 is an awesome performer. the c7 z06 will also be an awesome performer. if someone prefers the Corvette then they should purchase the Corvette. there is no need to continue to whine about the cars and the fact that the viper does not cost $50,000.
 

05Commemorative

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Posts
480
Reaction score
0
Location
Sammamish, WA
In just doing back of the napkin math by this list, I see the following:

Coupe 78K + perf seats 2k + aero package 10k (note it requires other option taken) + nav 2k. That does not even include the popular 3LZ package for 8k. So, just to get something reasonable for the performance minded, you get to 92k for the car and still a manual. If want the auto, it is another 1700. If getting with the 3LZ package, you go over 100k. A bargain for what you get, but to suggest a higher quality than the Viper is a bit shocking. Interior not as nice. Paint job no where close. Looks IMHO not close. But, if it does gets you excited, don't use price or quality as the reason.

I for one though will be interested to see the Laguna times with and without the aero and with and without the auto.

Here is a couple of link for pricing of options. For you guys who are in the know about the Viper, Do you see an Auto style trans in the next 6 to 12 months or at least an announcement?

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...ww.corvetteconti.com/blog/wp...cing-aug21.pdf
 

05Commemorative

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Posts
480
Reaction score
0
Location
Sammamish, WA
The GTS time posted above is a production 2013 (same day they did the TA). It did not have aero package. do not remember on the brakes/tires. Your point is super valid on the performance, just wanted to make sure you know that time was not from the original pre-production car. Heck, put the track alignment on it and it wall get a better time. same with the aero.

Totally agree in your point on vette vs G5 as well. If someone wants the Vette, they should pay actual $$$ for it and move on.

I believe the GTS gen5 Viper that randy tested was the one with mismatched tires a bad alignment in the 2013 brakes which were not the same as the 2014 GTS brakes and rotors unless they were the $3150 Track Pack brakes. That car--as provided-- was still only about a half a secondoff the TA time per the chart above. Not sure if the gts had the Corsas.

the bottom line is that the Viper Gen 5 is an awesome performer. the c7 z06 will also be an awesome performer. if someone prefers the Corvette then they should purchase the Corvette. there is no need to continue to whine about the cars and the fact that the viper does not cost $50,000.
 

sunsalem

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Posts
324
Reaction score
0
Now, if only they were able to run a 30min test for each and show you the times then, that would be a useful test that tells the whole story.

1. SRT Viper TA 1:33.62 139 '13 649 / 1520 Randy Probst
2. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:33.70 138 '08 647 / 1530 Randy Pobst
3. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 1:33.92 138 '08 608 / 1536 Chris Winkler
4. SRT Viper GTS 1:34.23 138 '13 649 / 1560 Randy Probst
5. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 1:34.43 137 '11 512 / 1394
6. McLaren MP4-12C 1:34.50 137 '10 600 / 1434 Randy Pobst
7. SRT Viper 1:34.63 137 '13 659 / 1520 Randy Probst
8. Mercedes SLS AMG Black Series 1:35.03 136 '13 631 / 1550 Randy Pobst
9. Devon GTX 1:35.08 136 0 659 / 0
10. Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 1:35.40 136 '11 700 / 1575 Randy Pobst
11. Porsche 911 GT2 RS 1:35.56 136 '10 620 / 1370 Johannes van Overbee
12. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:35.80 135 '08 647 / 1530 Randy Pobst
13. Ferrari 458 Italia 1:36.22 135 '09 570 / 1485 Randy Pobst
14. Nissan GT-R 1:36.30 135 '12 550 / 1736 Randy Pobst
15. Nissan GT-R 1:36.35 135 '11 530 / 1736
16. Lexus LFA 1:36.39 135 '10 560 / 1609
17. Audi R8 GT 1:36.39 135 '10 560 / 1520
18. Nissan GT-R 1:36.63 134 '12 550 / 1736 Randy Pobst
19. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 1:36.77 134 '10 450 / 1400
20. Porsche 911 Turbo 1:37.80 133 '09 500 / 1570
21. Ferrari F12 Berlinetta 1:38.04 132 '12 740 / 1725 Randy Pobst
22. Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 1:38.28 132 '14 461 / 1577 Randy Pobst
23. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:38.70 131 '08 647 / 1530 Car and driver
I sent Motor Trend an e-mail with a link to your post and asked if they would consider taking future times at LS in the manner you prefer.
I'll let you know if they have seen the light and realize the errors of their ways.
 

MoparMap

VCA National President
VCA Officer
Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Posts
2,431
Reaction score
268
Location
Kansas
http://www.hotrod.com/feature_stories/1412_the_2015_corvette_z06s_lt4_v8/viewall.html

They are saying the Active Fuel Management lifters limited the camshaft in the LT4, and there is more power available there.

Sample:
The 0.551-inch lift on the LT1 intake and the LT4 exhaust is no coincidence; it’s the limit of the Active Fuel Management (AFM) lifters. The AFM system allows half of the engine to shut off by controlling oil to the four sets of lifters. With the lifters collapsed, the cam’s lift isn’t transferred to the valves and fuel is also shut off for those cylinders while the rest of the engine continues to run as a V4.

We asked Lee how much power was left in the factory fuel system. He told us that the limit is the DI pump, not the in-tank pump. Because the factory tune has to keep emissions components longevity in mind, they enrich the air/fuel ratio a bit, meaning there’s some “cushion” beyond the current 650hp rating, although there’s not a whole lot of room for a factory tune to eke out more power. However, he knows there are ways, adding “the aftermarket will do what the aftermarket will do.” By the way, the folks at Lingenfelter are already privy to the part number of the LT4’s Stanadyne direct-injection fuel pump.

When posed with the same question, Jordan Lee told us there’s still some power to be had: “I think there’s more in that supercharger.” John Rydzewski, who admitted that some early iterations of the LT4 were producing around 680 lb-ft of torque, was also free to admit where to find more power: “Open up the exhaust system and work with the camshaft.” If it weren’t for the stringent emissions requirements, “There’s a lot of room to move around on the camshaft.”


Again, Ford and Chevrolet work WITH the aftermarket......

The 5.7 Hemi was the same way. The MDS lifters limit the cam lift that will still allow the MDS to function correctly. Interesting to see how the different companies have worked on this technology over the years. Chrysler has had it for some time now, and I think GM has actually have it for a while too, but I never heard about it until recently. MDS was pretty much introduced with the Hemi, so maybe it was a bigger deal because of it, but I never even knew GM did the same thing until some car show was talking about the fuel shutoff solenoids under the intake on an LS.
 

Jack B

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 5, 2000
Posts
3,483
Reaction score
0
Location
NE Ohio
My jeep 5.7 uses 5 -20 oil. Sometimes when I do an oil change in synthetic it sets a code upon initial start-up. In other words the technology is sensitive to oil type and weight. My 2014 5,7 brings in the deactivation at a much lower load level than my previous 2010.

The 5.7 Hemi was the same way. The MDS lifters limit the cam lift that will still allow the MDS to function correctly. Interesting to see how the different companies have worked on this technology over the years. Chrysler has had it for some time now, and I think GM has actually have it for a while too, but I never heard about it until recently. MDS was pretty much introduced with the Hemi, so maybe it was a bigger deal because of it, but I never even knew GM did the same thing until some car show was talking about the fuel shutoff solenoids under the intake on an LS.
 
Last edited:

MoparMap

VCA National President
VCA Officer
Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Posts
2,431
Reaction score
268
Location
Kansas
Yep, the oil weight and type has been known to cause issues with MDS. Essentially what happens is the MDS lifters rely on oil pressure to function correctly. When MDS activates, it shuts off the oil flow to the lifters and they collapse so that the movement of the cam doesn't open the valves. This is where the cam lift limit comes from. The lifters can only collapse so far (.551 in the case of the Vette). There is a soft spring inside that keeps the pushrod from rattling, but not so stiff as to be able to open the valve.
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
153,091
Posts
1,681,238
Members
17,582
Latest member
viper6000
Top