Viper vs new Z06

GCRoberts

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Stock Viper does appear to outrun a stock C7 Z06. The consensus seems to be explained in the following link:
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/2015-corvette-z06-owners-report-heat-soak-power-loss-its-actually-a-conservative-ecu-setup-89790.html

GM really doesn't want to put a gas guzzlers tax on the Vette, so they tend to throttle back the stock vehicle. If I'm not mistaken, this was done with a "skip shift" in the previous series. On the pro side, it's easily reversed with a custom tune. On the con side, the engine is "technically" out of warranty by doing so. I think most figure that they'll return the vehicle back to stock tune if they have engine problems.

With Z06's now in the hands of tuners, I'm sure you'll see new videos in a few weeks showing the Z06 can hold it's own with the Viper.
 

Nsane1

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Wow good find GC. I would have thought soak would be a huge issue, but instead they hamstrung the thing. It has monster torque, I wonder at what RPM though. To your point, this will be easily fixed and likely a 6250/640 at the wheels car, which is a beast.
 

05Commemorative

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I wonder if being too optimistic with the tune. Gains in the past were clear and pretty easy, but those had a big SC spinning slowly vs a small one already spinning like crazy. They likely put the protection items in place to keep it from blowing. Just a thought.

But in general, we should keep this discussion stock vs stock where it seems more obvious that "appears" to be out running the other.
 
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007

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But in general, we should keep this discussion stock vs stock where it seems more obvious that "appears" to be out running the other.

This was exactly the point, given the hype on how quick the car was going to be.
 

James1

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not surprised been saying it all along with Z06's weight. I hate to see what the supercharged viper going to do to it lol.
 

orlanderlv

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It has a lot to do with the fact the engines keep dying on people, that the rear tires are STILL not wide/slick enough and the car is just too heavy. Of course the ECU could be tuned and I'm sure you are right about the gas guzzler tax but I feel it's more an issue with not being able to fix the inherit flaws with the platform. Pretty sure it will be fixed in a couple of years.
 

PDCjonny

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With Z06's now in the hands of tuners, I'm sure you'll see new videos in a few weeks showing the Z06 can hold it's own with the Viper.

But then it's not stock versus stock. Which was the point of the video.
 

snakeplissken

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It sure looks like the Viper TA pulls on the 15 Z06 from a roll, but there will need to be more videos. The conservative ECU on the Z06 will Have to be addressed by GM.
 

Bobpantax

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GM spent considerable money developing and testing a controller for the Z06 that produces the stated power while meeting EPA regulations. The idea that the calibration is "conservative" is pure BS. The engine uses a small volume, high revving supercharger ( 20,000 RPM) to produce better throttle response. There were trade offs involved in choosing to go that route. The video shows the result of those trade offs.



It sure looks like the Viper TA pulls on the 15 Z06 from a roll, but there will need to be more videos. The conservative ECU on the Z06 will Have to be addressed by GM.
 

GCRoberts

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GM spent considerable money developing and testing a controller for the Z06 that produces the stated power while meeting EPA regulations. The idea that the calibration is "conservative" is pure BS. The engine uses a small volume, high revving supercharger ( 20,000 RPM) to produce better throttle response. There were trade offs involved in choosing to go that route. The video shows the result of those trade offs.

Not sure I totally get your point. Are you stating that tuners will not be able to get significantly more power out of the Z06?

I suspect the power is there in abundance, at least that's what the tuners are suggesting. I have no idea why GM is holding back this power. I know they don't want to spend a fortune on warranty repairs, so they'd be crazy not to be a "little" conservative. But the tuners are saying the ECU is "EXTREMELY conservative". Seems like there is a lot of room for compromise there.

In the end, neither the Viper or the Z06 is a "drag car". What really matters is their track time. With the current state of the Z06 ECU, I wouldn't put my money on it's track time either. However, I really think this is a temporary issue. In the meantime, I can't really blame Viper owners from having a little fun at the expense of Z06 owners. I'm sure it works both ways.
 

Free2go

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In this video, John Hennessy states that his company upgrades the blower on the Corvette to a 2.3 liter at 7 pounds of boost to achieve a little over 600rwhp. Ladies and gentlemen, I think its fair to say that its not the stock ECU that's conservative, but rather the stock blower.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3gdM4eV8IE
 

Bobpantax

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Tuners will get more power but it will be at the expense of the regulated EPA contaminant output and reliability and durability as compared to the stock vehicle. Tuners do not do the same amount of R&D and/or testing as an OEM. Tuners do not guarantee their work for tens of thousands of miles. But my post was really going to the comment that GM could just wave a magic wand and do a better controller calibration that produces a significant amount of additional power. If they could have produced significantly more power and met EPA regs and durabilty and relaibility tests in doing so, the Z06 would have been released with more power from the getgo.

Not sure I totally get your point. Are you stating that tuners will not be able to get significantly more power out of the Z06?

I suspect the power is there in abundance, at least that's what the tuners are suggesting. I have no idea why GM is holding back this power. I know they don't want to spend a fortune on warranty repairs, so they'd be crazy not to be a "little" conservative. But the tuners are saying the ECU is "EXTREMELY conservative". Seems like there is a lot of room for compromise there.

In the end, neither the Viper or the Z06 is a "drag car". What really matters is their track time. With the current state of the Z06 ECU, I wouldn't put my money on it's track time either. However, I really think this is a temporary issue. In the meantime, I can't really blame Viper owners from having a little fun at the expense of Z06 owners. I'm sure it works both ways.
 

Steve M

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I think most figure that they'll return the vehicle back to stock tune if they have engine problems.

Those that try this to try and get around a voided warranty will quickly find out that the OEMs have implemented a counter of sorts in the PCMs to determine just how many times a PCM has been written to. If it shows that it has been written to more times than can be backed up with valid service work (like a new software patch issued by the OEM), your warranty = gone.

Flashing back to stock used to work just fine back in the days when consumer grade tuning software was a relatively new thing...the OEMs have since caught on and made changes to keep owners honest about warranty claims.
 

Bobpantax

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The issue is how durable and reliable it would be. The 1.6 liter supercharger already spins at 20,000 rpm. I have to believe that assuming a tweak is possible that there would be a significant trade off in emissions, reliability and durability. I also do not know how much power leeway is built into the bottom end of the engine, the auto transmission and the differential. We will soon see since some owners will start modding the car. Some mods will probably work. Others will not.


Bob, do you think the Z06 is capable of 600 rwhp with simple ECU tweaking?
 

Sybil TF

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Those that try this to try and get around a voided warranty will quickly find out that the OEMs have implemented a counter of sorts in the PCMs to determine just how many times a PCM has been written to. If it shows that it has been written to more times than can be backed up with valid service work (like a new software patch issued by the OEM), your warranty = gone.
Yikes!!!!!!!
 

WANTED

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bottom line Z06 is faster, more upgraded every year , faster then the viper. less expensive. just saying :dunno:
look forward to the viper being king again but think at this point it just wont happen.:eater:
 

Mopar488

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bottom line Z06 is faster, more upgraded every year , faster then the viper. less expensive. just saying :dunno:
look forward to the viper being king again but think at this point it just wont happen.:eater:
Seriously? You must be privy to news the rest of us aren't. The whole web is full of Nine Ball's white T/A stomping a new ZO6.
 

Free2go

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bottom line Z06 is faster, more upgraded every year , faster then the viper. less expensive. just saying :dunno:
look forward to the viper being king again but think at this point it just wont happen.:eater:


As a member here, I pay for the right to access Viper related info...sling my opinions around...and engage in occasional trollery. I pay for my membership because I'm a giver, not a user. As a paying member, I get irritated when I see a troll not paying the toll.
 

emericr

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Clearly a win for the Viper.
Disappointing for the new Z that GM has restricted it so much. If manufacturer claims 650hp, I expect that hp all the time, not just a less than 5 pulls or 4 laps.
 

WANTED

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As a member here, I pay for the right to access Viper related info...sling my opinions around...and engage in occasional trollery. I pay for my membership because I'm a giver, not a user. As a paying member, I get irritated when I see a troll not paying the toll.

Really you respond with that.:eater: You pay, lmao free. I paid for many years. No i am not a troll as you stated. I have paid the TOLL only now to find a road with *** holes, unpainted lines!!!!!! I say it like it is, don't like it, don't read it. Keep buying the lemonade being sold and enjoy it, its your choice. :nono:
 
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