allanlambo
Enthusiast
Hey Adam, email me at [email protected] i want to talk to you about something.
Can a Lambo or Ferrari Touch me with my Mods?
- Thread starter HARDVIPER
- Start date
Snakester
Enthusiast
Road & Track measured the Gallardo's curb weight at 3560lbs and test weight at 3740lbs:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/2272004172749.pdf
The 3152lb weight was probably an early, optimistic estimate by MT.
Car & Driver also had 3560lbs, which makes sense given that it's AWD. And having AWD also introduces more driveline power losses, which is offset by less wheelspin from a standing start.
Most test so far show the Gallardo with about the same acceleration as the Porsche GT3, and stock Gen II Viper.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/2272004172749.pdf
The 3152lb weight was probably an early, optimistic estimate by MT.
Car & Driver also had 3560lbs, which makes sense given that it's AWD. And having AWD also introduces more driveline power losses, which is offset by less wheelspin from a standing start.
Most test so far show the Gallardo with about the same acceleration as the Porsche GT3, and stock Gen II Viper.
00prowler
Enthusiast
Is there really a comparison here?? Gen 2 Vipers are 70 grand or so new... I am not sure how much a Lambo is but I know its more than 70 grand, maybe 200 grand?. To even be able to compare these cars in performance is amazing with the price gap between the two. American muscle is awesome, Italian engineering is overpriced...American people love American cars...Period...My Gts has not been in the shop since I have owned it...3 years....
Andy 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
I think for the people who buy lambos, the price gap is a non-issue. For example, the Mustang Cobra guys will argue that they get "similar performance" for half the price, but us viper owners don't really care.
Well, I'm an American. I have owned Vipers since '92, over 30 total. Still have 3. Love Lambo's too. Different cars. But as long as there have been cars, there will be comparisons. So, why do the Mustang guys compare to a Viper? No sense in that either. They talk about the "value" thing too. They say the same thing you did, except the American stuff. And keep in mind who owns Dodge. A german company, Lambo is owned by a german company. Both great cars, very different, but great.
allanlambo
Enthusiast
Silly statement, more to a car then just performance, and in that area the Lambo still excells. Since you can compare the Z06 and Viper in Performance, that makes the Z06 just as good? I dont think so.
Oh, and btw, ive had my Diablo for 6 years, and its never been to the shop.
00prowler
Enthusiast
Ya but a Z06 is 50 grand or so,Mustang Cobra hits a wall at 150,not very exotic, Viper at 72 grand, Lambo at 180 or so....Do the cost to performance math , you got ripped off..I have maybe 6 grand in mods and you may not get by me, I have thought of buying a Diablow, but felt afraid to put any miles on it without a mechanic following me, and home ecing my home for repairs....just my American opinion...
ERDOC
Viper Owner
If you want to compare, I can get a turbocharged f-body for 25-35K that will blow the doors off Vipers, Lambos, so on and so forth. People who buy Lambos don't care for the most part if some Viper can take them in a race. Hell, lets do one better, I can build an eight second car from some POS for less than 10k. There is always someone faster out there. As far as being ripped off, that same f-body owner who can smoke you at will could be saying the same thing.
allanlambo
Enthusiast
Good for you 00 Prowler, sounds like your doing a good job convincing yourself of not having a Diablo. Btw, A Lambo does not cost 180K, but 280K. And since quite a few people here own both, a Lambo and a Viper, they will all chime in that the money is well spent, just my American opinion.
Oh, and btw, i will definately get by you, with your 6k in mods.
Oh, and btw, i will definately get by you, with your 6k in mods.
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allanlambo
Enthusiast
If you want to compare, I can get a turbocharged f-body for 25-35K that will blow the doors off Vipers, Lambos, so on and so forth. People who buy Lambos don't care for the most part if some Viper can take them in a race. Hell, lets do one better, I can build an eight second car from some POS for less than 10k. There is always someone faster out there. As far as being ripped off, that same f-body owner who can smoke you at will could be saying the same thing.
Well said.
Rather peculiar set of numbers. That particular Diablo did:
60-100: 4.3
60-150: 14.2
Sport Auto's Diablo GT did 100-160kmh (62-99 mph) in exactly the same time, 4.3 seconds. I was under the impression the Diablo GT packs 45 more hp than the SV, and weighs a bit less as well.
FWIW, Autocar's Diablo GT (rated on their site at 543 hp) recorded the following:
0-30: 2.1
0-60: 4.4
0-100: 8.7
0-150: 20.2
So the 530 hp Diablo pulls out 1.6 seconds in the 60-150 sprint? Pretty amazing. Almost too amazing to believe. What is the weight on a stock Diablo SV again?
Yes, the Diablo SV as tested by R&T did rather poorly, but we can't really pin that down on driver error. The [******] Venom 650R tested in the very same session showed a visibly steeper acceleration curve throughout the 1/4 mile run. And that was with considerably worse shifts than the Diablo had. It pulled out 1.5 seconds on the Diablo from 60-100.
allanlambo
Enthusiast
Guibo, cars tested at different times, different tracks, and even different cars will register different numbers. A fully broken in vehicle will register significantly better numbers than a new vehicle. EVO magazine tested a Diablo Gt, and ran 11.6@ 120mph, on a wet track.
Stock weight of a Diablo SV is 3366pds.
As far as the [******] beating that SV, first off, it was on slicks, and considering the number of mods it had, it should of. Also, a 60-100mph run would hurt the Diablo, as starting in 2nd gear, its not in its powerband. And that test was the worst test of any Diablo, i mean 12.7@114, I could run that in reverse.
Stock weight of a Diablo SV is 3366pds.
As far as the [******] beating that SV, first off, it was on slicks, and considering the number of mods it had, it should of. Also, a 60-100mph run would hurt the Diablo, as starting in 2nd gear, its not in its powerband. And that test was the worst test of any Diablo, i mean 12.7@114, I could run that in reverse.
Then your heavily modded, or he couldn't drive. Its simple stuff. Talk to the guys who are owners of both marques. They will all tell you the same thing. Why would EVERY guy who owns both cars say the same thing? Thing about it. No reason, unless it was true. Both great cars. Good kill Stu, but it wouldn't be the normal occurance for stock cars. Did you go from a dig? That's the VT's strenght, being all wheel drive. If you went from a roll, different story.
My point about the 650R was that that would be probably be a similar outcome for a Diablo SV owner who goes up against HARDVIPER's car (assuming the 686 hp dyno is correct). 60-100 is just a figure I used because the mag listed those times for both cars. Main point in ignoring the 0-60 figure is see how both cars perform without having to mess with all of the launch/static friction issues. And going by the 60-1/4 mile graphs for both cars, it's pretty apparent the SV doesn't pull as hard as the Viper, with the same driver at the wheel of each (as expected).
Evo did the quarter mile in 11.6 @ 120 in the wet with the GT?
So in the dry, are we saying the GT does the quarter in 11.3...11.2...? That's pretty close to McLaren F1 times. Not bad for a car that's down ~50 horses (on paper) and up about 400kgs (880 lbs). Did they happen to get a top speed too? Would like to know what gearing this Diablo had. FWIW, Sport Auto's GT did 0-99 in 8.7. Evo's GT, in the wet, got to 100 in 8.3. In the dry, would it be, what, high 7's? Very strange, considering Quattroruote got the GT (with short gear ratio) to 400m in 11.8 @ 124. (Evo's GT did the quarter in the wet 2 tenths quicker and 4 mph slower?)
onerareviper
Enthusiast
Bottom line: Most people who have tested the new Murc. against the SRT-10 in braking, acceleration, cornering, lap-times etc... have had them neck and neck in most all the mag's I've read. Some have the Murc. ahead, some the Viper, some equal. That leads me to believe the performance difference one-way or the other is not that significant (except maybe top-speed since SRT-10 is a convertible).
That being said, these cars (for the most part) DO NOT market to the same customers. Comparing ANYTHING but performance is really a stupid argument, IMO. The Lambo incorporates HIGH-DOLLAR carbon fiber, HIGH-DOLLAR custom internal engine parts, hand stiched leathers, and a painstaking anal retentive build process. Is it worth $200,000 more than a SRT-10? If you're wealthy it probably is...
Now in the good 'ole USA defense, NO ONE IS BETTER at building a super-level performing car, at a 'budget' price. Around a road course I will put the Viper and the upcoming C6 Z06 against production cars <$300,000. That's something to be proud of!
That being said, these cars (for the most part) DO NOT market to the same customers. Comparing ANYTHING but performance is really a stupid argument, IMO. The Lambo incorporates HIGH-DOLLAR carbon fiber, HIGH-DOLLAR custom internal engine parts, hand stiched leathers, and a painstaking anal retentive build process. Is it worth $200,000 more than a SRT-10? If you're wealthy it probably is...
Now in the good 'ole USA defense, NO ONE IS BETTER at building a super-level performing car, at a 'budget' price. Around a road course I will put the Viper and the upcoming C6 Z06 against production cars <$300,000. That's something to be proud of!
allanlambo
Enthusiast
As far as the EVo magazine, i have the entire test somewhere, il dig it up and post.
One thing you have to factor in, is that when Dodge builds a car, they build a boatload just to hand out as test vehicles. When Lamborghini does, youll be lucky to get one, and thats in todays world. In the days of the Diablo, Euro mags had the upper hand with testing these cars as theyd borrow one from the factory, while most U.S. tests are done with privately owned, or dealer owned cars, which are treated gently.
One common misconception about the Murcielago and DIablo is that the Murcielago is faster, this is usually not the case.
Ive driven the Srt and ive driven the Murci, both very fast, the Murci definately has the edge, no doubt in mind that if an Srt owner finds a lackluster Murci owner, that edge will not be enough to hold off the Srt below 130mph. Above 130mph, is where the Murci really shines.
As for Americans building super performance cars for a bargain price, absolutely, but ill tell you this, even if both cars were exactly even on all levels, you'll never get the same feeling you do when driving the Lambo. The smell, the feel of the car, the noise, everything is indescribeable. Just opening the door is an event. I can tell you, it is worth every penny.
One thing you have to factor in, is that when Dodge builds a car, they build a boatload just to hand out as test vehicles. When Lamborghini does, youll be lucky to get one, and thats in todays world. In the days of the Diablo, Euro mags had the upper hand with testing these cars as theyd borrow one from the factory, while most U.S. tests are done with privately owned, or dealer owned cars, which are treated gently.
One common misconception about the Murcielago and DIablo is that the Murcielago is faster, this is usually not the case.
Ive driven the Srt and ive driven the Murci, both very fast, the Murci definately has the edge, no doubt in mind that if an Srt owner finds a lackluster Murci owner, that edge will not be enough to hold off the Srt below 130mph. Above 130mph, is where the Murci really shines.
As for Americans building super performance cars for a bargain price, absolutely, but ill tell you this, even if both cars were exactly even on all levels, you'll never get the same feeling you do when driving the Lambo. The smell, the feel of the car, the noise, everything is indescribeable. Just opening the door is an event. I can tell you, it is worth every penny.
Allan I bet that lambo is worth every penny they are awesome cars and like I said I would buy one in a heartbeat (if I had those kinds of funds of course) but the viper has always been my #1 car out of every car ever made even the cars over 1 mill just MO.
allanlambo
Enthusiast
We all have our favorites, and all that matters is that we are happy with our choices.
allanlambo
Enthusiast
I went through some of my magazines and found a Road and Track featuring a Diablo Gt and a Ruf Porsche, among others. They didnt list accleration numbers, but did a 0-100-0 where the Lambo registered 13.35 sec, and the Porsche 13.06. In the article they state that the Diablo had the most ferocious acceleration. No doubt quicker than the Ruf, but the Porsches brakes surely won the 100-0 contest. Also the Porsche ran 205mph, the Diablo 202.6, but also when it was wet. They noted the Diablo would have been faster but they said coming out of the last turn the Diablo was hydro-planing in 4th. That the tires were too wide.
Yves
Enthusiast
German engineering, Belgian design
(Italian name, I guess ?)
Yeah baby !
allanlambo
Enthusiast
Murcielago is not german engineering. Same motor that has been in the Lambos all along, Belgian design is true, car is 100% built in Italy. Regardless, its freakin awesome! I couldnt careless if it were built in Russia!
Yves
Enthusiast
No kidding, so beautiful.
One of the neighbors had a friend with a Gallardo visiting him today. Feisty little car, first thought it was an Enzo (due to the angle at which I approached the car).
Funny situation over here. I've got Ferrari and Lambo owners drooling all over my 'old' Gen I. Maybe I can convince one of those guys to trade, hehe.
One of the neighbors had a friend with a Gallardo visiting him today. Feisty little car, first thought it was an Enzo (due to the angle at which I approached the car).
Funny situation over here. I've got Ferrari and Lambo owners drooling all over my 'old' Gen I. Maybe I can convince one of those guys to trade, hehe.
BADVENOM
Enthusiast
I have both and my s/c viper will pull on my diablo..but thats like comparing 675RWHP or 800 apx at the crank to 500 at the crank..Top end..Diablo loves to pull at high speed..Love thyem both..again two different cars..especially in handling...
my 2 cents
my 2 cents
BADVENOM
Enthusiast
Allan you havent been looking that hard...and you know what I mean!
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