HogWhisperer
Enthusiast
Think how bad it would be if you didn't have your cats! MAN!
CATS or no CATS?
- Thread starter Acatala7
- Start date
BlackACR
Enthusiast
LA, has a couple of factors. One is over crowding and, two it is in a valley like Mexico City which traps in the air. I don't think that is a good example. If you are not happy with the emission problem then why are you adding to it. Some of you guys need electric Vipers. That will be the day..........
BlackACR
Enthusiast
No, cars burn cleaner due to technology. Not from goverment regulations. If that was the case there would be no 11MPG SUV's running around. Like the Monster Yukon I have. By the way 11MPG was stock not now!!!!
BlackACR
Enthusiast
If you want to blame anyone it is the Japanese. They built a fuel efficient low emission car back in the early 70's that started all of this. Thanks to there innovations cars are more efficient on power and mileage. I guess the gas crunch of the 70's did more than any government regulations.
joe117
Enthusiast
Cats or no cats, the real problem is this. We have come a long way in cleaning up the engines in our cars over the last thirty years. I think they are just about as clean as they are going to get. A twenty percent decrease in the small amount of tailpipe crud from todays average car wouldn't make for cleaner air in the vast majority of places in this country. The fact that the technology involved in any further improvement might just be wasteful, intrusive and an unproductive use of environmental improvement dollars and effort will have little effect on the folks who are using the environment as a club to beat the "rich" over the head. The same folks who used to fight against the "rich" and "corporate greed" under the red banner of communism have switched to fighting the same battle under the green banner of the tree hugger. I’m for clean air and water but I know the difference between what these folks want and what is good enough. Don't let them win or we will all be on bikes.
Makara
Viper Owner
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlackACR:
LA, has a couple of factors. One is over crowding and, two it is in a valley like Mexico City which traps in the air. I don't think that is a good example. If you are not happy with the emission problem then why are you adding to it. Some of you guys need electric Vipers. That will be the day..........
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If I get the same or greater thrill out of driving an electric viper, then I am all for it. Maybe when I felt I was in need of a little extra testosterone I could pour gas out my window as I drove it. I beg to differ with your comment that LA is not a good example. LA's pollution is compounded by the topography and that is why it serves as a reminder that what comes out of our tailpipes (or sidepipes) does not just float away forever. There might be a day when even the most remote island will be smothered in pollution that has nowhere else to blow. I like to eat meat but I don't shoot cows as I drive past a pasture. My point is: have your fun but don't waste what you don't need. It seems that the 2-3 hp increase of running high flow cats (on a 400-450 hp+ engine!) does not offset the detrimental environmental impact.
LA, has a couple of factors. One is over crowding and, two it is in a valley like Mexico City which traps in the air. I don't think that is a good example. If you are not happy with the emission problem then why are you adding to it. Some of you guys need electric Vipers. That will be the day..........
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If I get the same or greater thrill out of driving an electric viper, then I am all for it. Maybe when I felt I was in need of a little extra testosterone I could pour gas out my window as I drove it. I beg to differ with your comment that LA is not a good example. LA's pollution is compounded by the topography and that is why it serves as a reminder that what comes out of our tailpipes (or sidepipes) does not just float away forever. There might be a day when even the most remote island will be smothered in pollution that has nowhere else to blow. I like to eat meat but I don't shoot cows as I drive past a pasture. My point is: have your fun but don't waste what you don't need. It seems that the 2-3 hp increase of running high flow cats (on a 400-450 hp+ engine!) does not offset the detrimental environmental impact.
HogWhisperer
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Makara:
........ I like to eat meat but I don't shoot cows as I drive past a pasture.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Another reason not live in California!
........ I like to eat meat but I don't shoot cows as I drive past a pasture.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Another reason not live in California!
joe117
Enthusiast
The very idea that mankind can change the climate and pollute the entire globe is preposterous. The entire population of the earth, if they were standing in typical rock concert crowd order, would fit inside a circle with a fifteen mile radius. In other words, if you had a globe with a one foot diameter, the footprint of man would be the size of a pinprick. We can cause local pollution and make a mess here and there but the earth has seen things more important than ourselves and we couldn’t change it if we tried.
There are lots of people who would have you believe otherwise and they have many reasons for their point of view. If you look closely you can see what they are really up to.
There are lots of people who would have you believe otherwise and they have many reasons for their point of view. If you look closely you can see what they are really up to.
Makara
Viper Owner
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark O:
I take my old oil to a guy who burns it in his waste oil funace which heats his shop. Am I a bad person??
The biggest polluter of the world is Mother Nature herself. Can you say Volcano?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Can you point me to the volcano that makes LA smoggy?
I take my old oil to a guy who burns it in his waste oil funace which heats his shop. Am I a bad person??
The biggest polluter of the world is Mother Nature herself. Can you say Volcano?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Can you point me to the volcano that makes LA smoggy?
GTS Bruce
Enthusiast
*** *** ** * Bottom Line * ** *** *** Last Comment***** If you are a tree hugger you are on the wrong forum. Bruce
Rich Detert
Viper Owner
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jcaspar1:
15 mpg is the worst!?!? Either the Gen I's only came with a 6 cylinder or your idea of hard driving is shifting from 1st to 3rd rather than using the skip shifter. I get 22 with freeway only driving, 8-10 to and from work and probably 4-5 with hard (dragstrip/racetrack driving) driving. Maybe one of your throttle bodies is stuck closed!
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If there's any question about how hard I run my car, let my time slips answer it.
On just the motor 12.30 @ 112 mph, with a little help from a BTR Nitrous setup 11.40 @ 126 mph.
The fastest top speed so far 155 mph (pre nitrous) with the top off (kinda windy).
There's nothing wrong with hugging a tree, just remember to cut it up in pieces small enough to fit in the fireplace.
15 mpg is the worst!?!? Either the Gen I's only came with a 6 cylinder or your idea of hard driving is shifting from 1st to 3rd rather than using the skip shifter. I get 22 with freeway only driving, 8-10 to and from work and probably 4-5 with hard (dragstrip/racetrack driving) driving. Maybe one of your throttle bodies is stuck closed!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If there's any question about how hard I run my car, let my time slips answer it.
On just the motor 12.30 @ 112 mph, with a little help from a BTR Nitrous setup 11.40 @ 126 mph.
The fastest top speed so far 155 mph (pre nitrous) with the top off (kinda windy).
There's nothing wrong with hugging a tree, just remember to cut it up in pieces small enough to fit in the fireplace.
King GTS
Enthusiast
I've got Hi-Flow Cats.
Janni
Enthusiast
Well, I have seen the light. You guys have won. Your superior debating skills have proven too much for me. I can't tell if it was the subtle yet arrogant "I deserve to be able to pollute becasue I can afford a $70K car" to the always popular "Look at him - he's W-A-Y worse than me" comparison tactic.
I have to tell you- my life has just gotten a TON easier. I have decided to apply this logic to more aspects of my life. I have a nice house and pay enough taxes, I figure there's no need for me to put my trash in little bags and yuk up my own yard, and since I pay taxes that pay for the roadside prison garbage crews, I'll make sure I keep them busy by just throwing my stuff out the window. Heck, I pay A LOT of taxes, I deserve to be able to litter.
Then, since we do most of our own oil changes, the one thing that is always a pain is to go to the local landfill to use the pesky oil recycling thingie. I live near a little creek that feeds a river and we have a little neighborhood lake. No need for those Saturday trips anymore - I'll just easy on down to the creek and pour it in. Its only a few quarts at a time. Heck, compared to the Exxon Valdez, I don't even think my contribution would even show up on the SCALE! It's briliant. I feel vindicated already.
Isn't this fun?
I realize that we burn a LOT of fossil fuels. I will still enjoy our cars without guilt. I will make sure that they stay in good condition so that they run properly and as cleanly AS POSSIBLE. It's bad attitudes like we have seen here that bring on legislation like the one that wants to CRUSH old cars, tax folks that repair and restore classics. It puts us in an adversarial position with anyone concerned about the environment - "Hey look at those VIPER people, not only do they get 10 MPG, NOW they want to disable the emmissions control systems on their cars. What polluters - they must be stopped!"
And ya know what - maybe I AM a tree hugger. Big freaking deal. I LIKE the fact that I CARE about my environment. I like the fact that I like to do what I can to make the planet just a little better. I really don't think that these 2 things are mutually exclusive. No one is 100% one way or the other - I don't own a hybrid - but I do own a ULEV commuter vehicle.. I think we can enjoy our cars AND treat the planet with a certain amount of kindness and respect - its NOT that hard - it may be 2 -3 HP difference in the cats vs hi-flo debate. And I think this discussion belongs in the VCA - thank you.
I have to tell you- my life has just gotten a TON easier. I have decided to apply this logic to more aspects of my life. I have a nice house and pay enough taxes, I figure there's no need for me to put my trash in little bags and yuk up my own yard, and since I pay taxes that pay for the roadside prison garbage crews, I'll make sure I keep them busy by just throwing my stuff out the window. Heck, I pay A LOT of taxes, I deserve to be able to litter.
Then, since we do most of our own oil changes, the one thing that is always a pain is to go to the local landfill to use the pesky oil recycling thingie. I live near a little creek that feeds a river and we have a little neighborhood lake. No need for those Saturday trips anymore - I'll just easy on down to the creek and pour it in. Its only a few quarts at a time. Heck, compared to the Exxon Valdez, I don't even think my contribution would even show up on the SCALE! It's briliant. I feel vindicated already.
Isn't this fun?
I realize that we burn a LOT of fossil fuels. I will still enjoy our cars without guilt. I will make sure that they stay in good condition so that they run properly and as cleanly AS POSSIBLE. It's bad attitudes like we have seen here that bring on legislation like the one that wants to CRUSH old cars, tax folks that repair and restore classics. It puts us in an adversarial position with anyone concerned about the environment - "Hey look at those VIPER people, not only do they get 10 MPG, NOW they want to disable the emmissions control systems on their cars. What polluters - they must be stopped!"
And ya know what - maybe I AM a tree hugger. Big freaking deal. I LIKE the fact that I CARE about my environment. I like the fact that I like to do what I can to make the planet just a little better. I really don't think that these 2 things are mutually exclusive. No one is 100% one way or the other - I don't own a hybrid - but I do own a ULEV commuter vehicle.. I think we can enjoy our cars AND treat the planet with a certain amount of kindness and respect - its NOT that hard - it may be 2 -3 HP difference in the cats vs hi-flo debate. And I think this discussion belongs in the VCA - thank you.
HogWhisperer
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janni:
The lowest common denominator has never been good enough for me....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL! Janni, you are too much! Always playing the devil's advicate aren't you. In the market for an electric car? LOL!
The lowest common denominator has never been good enough for me....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL! Janni, you are too much! Always playing the devil's advicate aren't you. In the market for an electric car? LOL!
Chuck 97 GTS
Enthusiast
Let me get this straight. Tree huggers don't like catless Vipers but a <insert your favorite big block 60s-70s musclecar here> without cats is OK?
Makara
Viper Owner
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GTS Bruce:
*** *** ** * Bottom Line * ** *** *** Last Comment***** If you are a tree hugger you are on the wrong forum. Bruce
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks for adding to the discussion Bruce. I think that there is an acute difference between tree hugger and being environmentally conscious. Do what you want. Personally, 2 hp does not mean enough to me to take my cats off.
*** *** ** * Bottom Line * ** *** *** Last Comment***** If you are a tree hugger you are on the wrong forum. Bruce
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks for adding to the discussion Bruce. I think that there is an acute difference between tree hugger and being environmentally conscious. Do what you want. Personally, 2 hp does not mean enough to me to take my cats off.
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GTS Bruce
Enthusiast
I like the cartoon.Nice sense of humor.No one gives a rats asx about 2 HP.It doesn't have anything to do with HP.People pull them for cool side sils,a louder exhaust note and flames out the back. Bruce
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
YEAH!! What MarkO said, also L.A. has the clearest air around! That's Lower Alabama to you yankees.
Back to the original queation.............I removed both cats and kept the factory resonators and rear muffler. I am happy with the results. Louder, deeper sound, much cooler side sills, I would also say there was a SOTP improvement because the tires are easier to break loose from a roll. I have a '96 GTS and it may respond better to exhaust changes than the later creamies. The mod also cost me less than 50 bucks!
BurnR8
Enthusiast
"creamies"...now that is just plain rude!
puffs, cp's, creampuff, ok....but "creamies"...geez...next we will have to drive with fluffers..
puffs, cp's, creampuff, ok....but "creamies"...geez...next we will have to drive with fluffers..
jcaspar1
Enthusiast
Louder always seems faster...show me the numbers. I think the funniest thing is people who run straight pipes without cats on their street cars and then wear ear plugs because it's too loud!
Count all us hunters and fisherman with the "tree huggers" (esp. the bow hunters who truly are tree huggers) as we all hope to continue for many generations to come.
Count all us hunters and fisherman with the "tree huggers" (esp. the bow hunters who truly are tree huggers) as we all hope to continue for many generations to come.
HogWhisperer
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jcaspar1:
............. Count all us hunters and fisherman with the "tree huggers" (esp. the bow hunters who truly are tree huggers) as we all hope to continue for many generations to come.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My guess is that the people who have removed the CATS from their Vipers haven't done so to any other car(s) they own. Also, these cars aren't driven much so it's not like they've done this to their daily drivers.
Another thing, I've hunted and fished all my life and still do. I'm surprised to find we have a person that speaks for all of us on this issue. LOL!
............. Count all us hunters and fisherman with the "tree huggers" (esp. the bow hunters who truly are tree huggers) as we all hope to continue for many generations to come.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My guess is that the people who have removed the CATS from their Vipers haven't done so to any other car(s) they own. Also, these cars aren't driven much so it's not like they've done this to their daily drivers.
Another thing, I've hunted and fished all my life and still do. I'm surprised to find we have a person that speaks for all of us on this issue. LOL!
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
With every law that’s passed another freedom gets taken away. And yes, to some extent that includes the freedom to pollute. Let society dictate, not the government. Let society look down at people that smoke, drink or take their cats off, but don’t go passing a law against it. We already have more laws than freedoms in this country.
Makara
Viper Owner
What's your deal man? If you can't handle a discussion without getting **********, stay out of it. I never told anyone to put their cats back on. Someone asked for "thoughts on Cats or no Cats." He even asked if having no cats would cause a problem during inspection. I suggested high flow cats and gave my reasons. A discussion followed with several people perhaps seeing it as an attack on themselves for not having cats. How many times have I said that I wasn't telling anyone what to do, do whatever you want, or this is just the reason that I have high flow cats? Do you even read the posts or do you just want to find something to get mad at? If you want to call me a tree hugger, that's fine. Just remember this: by your reasoning you are a tree hugger too... that is unless you pour oil into your front lawn or a nearby stream, throw batteries out the window when you are done, or let antifreeze pour down your driveway for kids or pets to consume.
HogWhisperer
Enthusiast
Makara,
Just so there is no misunderstanding between you and I, let me be clear about my sentiment regarding tree huggers. And that is; Trees need love too, especially Californicated trees!
So go for it!
When can we move on to netting Dolphins and Whaling?
Just so there is no misunderstanding between you and I, let me be clear about my sentiment regarding tree huggers. And that is; Trees need love too, especially Californicated trees!
So go for it!
When can we move on to netting Dolphins and Whaling?
Makara
Viper Owner
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paul Bilberry:
Makara,
Just so there is no misunderstanding between you and I, let me be clear about my sentiment regarding tree huggers. And that is; Trees need love too, especially Californicated trees!
So go for it!
When can we move on to netting Dolphins and Whaling?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am all for ridding the world of dolphins. They have no place on the hood of a car.
Makara,
Just so there is no misunderstanding between you and I, let me be clear about my sentiment regarding tree huggers. And that is; Trees need love too, especially Californicated trees!
So go for it!
When can we move on to netting Dolphins and Whaling?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am all for ridding the world of dolphins. They have no place on the hood of a car.
GTS Dean
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KenH:
There is an uproar here in Oregon because the state is talking about putting a special tax on hybrid vehicles to make up for the lost revenue in gasoline taxes due to the vehicles efficiency.-- Ken
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ken,
The lion's share of the money to construct and maintain the roads in this country comes from motor fuel sales taxes. The more you drive, the more you pay. More fuel efficient vehicles may be better for the environment, but they put more wear and congestion stress on the infrastructure while paying less and less to maintain it. Everything costs more, including roads. Fuel taxes are not indexed. Gasohol (ethanol blend) is taxed at about 1/2 the rate of gasoline, but is being required in more air quality non-attainment areas all the time. It no longer needs a tax break to be economically viable.
Tony Besharse,
You may have passed the TSI (two-speed idle) test this time, but the TNRCC has bad news for you: Starting later this year, D/FW and Houston/Galveston will start to phase in the dreaded ASM (acceleration simulation mode) treadmill test. Good luck trying to pass this one with no cats and a non-stock PCM. Not saying it can't be done, but the Calif. tuners will have a real leg up on most everyone else in that department.
Makara,
<<I like to eat meat but I don't shoot cows as I drive past a pasture. >>
Now, how else is a person supposed to eat, or test the bullet performance of his handloads during the off-season? Boy you city-slickers need to come hunting with me from the living room window sometime....
(Kidding, sort of)
There is an uproar here in Oregon because the state is talking about putting a special tax on hybrid vehicles to make up for the lost revenue in gasoline taxes due to the vehicles efficiency.-- Ken
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ken,
The lion's share of the money to construct and maintain the roads in this country comes from motor fuel sales taxes. The more you drive, the more you pay. More fuel efficient vehicles may be better for the environment, but they put more wear and congestion stress on the infrastructure while paying less and less to maintain it. Everything costs more, including roads. Fuel taxes are not indexed. Gasohol (ethanol blend) is taxed at about 1/2 the rate of gasoline, but is being required in more air quality non-attainment areas all the time. It no longer needs a tax break to be economically viable.
Tony Besharse,
You may have passed the TSI (two-speed idle) test this time, but the TNRCC has bad news for you: Starting later this year, D/FW and Houston/Galveston will start to phase in the dreaded ASM (acceleration simulation mode) treadmill test. Good luck trying to pass this one with no cats and a non-stock PCM. Not saying it can't be done, but the Calif. tuners will have a real leg up on most everyone else in that department.
Makara,
<<I like to eat meat but I don't shoot cows as I drive past a pasture. >>
Now, how else is a person supposed to eat, or test the bullet performance of his handloads during the off-season? Boy you city-slickers need to come hunting with me from the living room window sometime....
(Kidding, sort of)
HogWhisperer
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Makara:
I am all for ridding the world of dolphins. They have no place on the hood of a car.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL! Touche!
I am all for ridding the world of dolphins. They have no place on the hood of a car.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL! Touche!
luc
Enthusiast
I love trees (I don't hug them)but I also love to have a nice fire in my fireplace.
I like meat but if I had to kill a cow to eat meat,I know that I will not do it.
So this subject,like a lot of things in life is not black or white.
I don't understand how peoples can say that we are not creating more pollution per person than we did 200 years ago.
Our way of life,our civilization require it,but I think that we have a duty/responsability to try to minimize it as much than we can for the future generations.
I love cars and some of them,I'm sure,pollute a lot,but why adding to it by removing the cats,all that for what? a couple more horsepower,not worth it in my book.
Luc.
00GTS with cats
1965 race Shelby 408ci 550hp 110 leaded,no cats
1969 race Mustang 420c1 650hp 110 leaded,no cats
1991 Roush Mustang Trans Am 310ci 620hp 110 leaded,no cats
1974 Jaguar V12 roadster 327ci 330hp unleaded,no cats
1984 Jeep Wagonner 360ci 250hp,unleaded,cats
1988 Jaguar XJ6 230ci 240hp unleaded,cats
1995 Ford Explorer 250ci 200hp unleaded,cats
2001 Yukon 500ci 340hp unleaded,cats
2001 Jaguar XJR 250ci supercharged 380hp unleaded,cats
1969 Mustang Mach 1 Cobra Jet 428ci 360hp unleaded,no cats
so with 3800ci and 7250hp,I don't feel the need to remove the cats on my GTS
I like meat but if I had to kill a cow to eat meat,I know that I will not do it.
So this subject,like a lot of things in life is not black or white.
I don't understand how peoples can say that we are not creating more pollution per person than we did 200 years ago.
Our way of life,our civilization require it,but I think that we have a duty/responsability to try to minimize it as much than we can for the future generations.
I love cars and some of them,I'm sure,pollute a lot,but why adding to it by removing the cats,all that for what? a couple more horsepower,not worth it in my book.
Luc.
00GTS with cats
1965 race Shelby 408ci 550hp 110 leaded,no cats
1969 race Mustang 420c1 650hp 110 leaded,no cats
1991 Roush Mustang Trans Am 310ci 620hp 110 leaded,no cats
1974 Jaguar V12 roadster 327ci 330hp unleaded,no cats
1984 Jeep Wagonner 360ci 250hp,unleaded,cats
1988 Jaguar XJ6 230ci 240hp unleaded,cats
1995 Ford Explorer 250ci 200hp unleaded,cats
2001 Yukon 500ci 340hp unleaded,cats
2001 Jaguar XJR 250ci supercharged 380hp unleaded,cats
1969 Mustang Mach 1 Cobra Jet 428ci 360hp unleaded,no cats
so with 3800ci and 7250hp,I don't feel the need to remove the cats on my GTS
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paul Bilberry:
Trees need love too, especially Californicated trees!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Is San Fran that capital for that too?!
"Not that there's anything wrong with it."
Trees need love too, especially Californicated trees!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Is San Fran that capital for that too?!
"Not that there's anything wrong with it."
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