Help - How hot is too hot?

[cornfish]

I put in a Ron Davis radiator after my PWR one got pin-holes in it. Anyway, after driving in the extreme heat here, I noticed that my car is running awefully hot. With the AC on and driving around for lunch, it runs up to the notch before the red hot line. So if around 190 is normal, is up to that notch way too hot?

Here is the deal with where I am living - It is in the mid-high 90's right now and the elevation is around 3600++.

After I put the radiatior in, I took it to a local shop to flush, refill and pressure test the coolant system. They said it was all good but after driving yesterday, it was running pretty high so we tried to burp it more last night. Today, same thing (running hotter than I remember it.) Shouldn't the Ron Davis radiator run cooler?

Speaking of, the Ron Davis radiator is way better than the PWR. Fitment was absolutely perfect and has a drain plug! The PWR one didn't have any screw holes and sine it was a triple pass, it was way too thick and I had to gap the fan shroud away from the radiator. Not only that, but it didn't have any mounting bolts so I had to make my own. The Ron Davis one uses all the ones from the stock radiator (thank god I kept them.)

I guess I am asking where the heat *should* be at with the upgraded fan shroud (MY99~02) and the Ron Davis radiator with the stock thermostat? I assume I should be worried and take it back to my local shop.

 

[plumcrazy]

thats fine

 

[PhilC]

A bottle of water wetter wouldn't hurt. Running the ac always raises the temp a bunch so I try to run without the ac which isn't terribly comfortable. AN important thing to know is what are the temps at speed under significant load. If they come down to a reasonable level in those conditions then you really just have to try and do the little things to keep the temp under control when cruising around town (ie no ac, run the higest gear feasible for lower rpms, make sure front is clear of any debris such as leaves, add water wetter etc...) If you're ever really in bad shape in traffic you can run the heater to lower the temps a bit, yeah it'll make it unbearably hot for you but better that than overheat your motor.

With all of that said, I do think there is something not right with the cooling system because with that radiator you shouldn't be seeing temps higher than 210-220 in any condition.

 

[1BADGTS]

Years ago on my modded Gen 2 Nick at Modern sent my stock radiator out to Dan Craigen to have extra cores put in it .On the hottest days of the year AC in bumper to bumper traffic temp neer went over 205-210.The alum radiator is definately lighter put how much fluid does it hold ?

 

[CROM]

In a stock car:

If it sits constantly at the mark before the red, that is too hot. I'm assuming you are meaning the 2:30 spot and not the 1 o'clock mark. When the thermostat opens and you're sitting in traffic it should drop down to the 1 o'clock mark. Under normal driving (cruising at speed) it shouldn't go very far above the 190 mark.

 

[dave6666]

The alum radiator is definately lighter put how much fluid does it hold ?

There is some good info in this thread for cornfish. Long, but good...

http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/617146-roe-racing-updated-fan-switch-report.html

As far as the RDR goes, as I have one, it was like 2 pounds lighter and when I put in the second one (the first one had a leak) I added about 1 more quart than having the stocker back in as my spare. 1 more quart ain't a lot of fluid. Maybe it has greater surface area.

 

[Madduc]

I don't have the RD radiator but, a Fluidyne. Sean told me to use two bottles of WatterWetter. Also my car will run cooler with the A/C on and the upgraded fan module, since it runs the fan on the high setting. But mine would run hot until it was completely burped. It took a good week to get all the air out. It helped to raise the passenger side while burping, fill, burping, fill, burping, fill. Now it never goes past the 3rd line by the 190.

 

[dave6666]

I don't have the RD radiator but, a Fluidyne. Sean told me to use two bottles of WatterWetter. Also my car will run cooler with the A/C on and the upgraded fan module, since it runs the fan on the high setting. But mine would run hot until it was completely burped. It took a good week to get all the air out. It helped to raise the passenger side while burping, fill, burping, fill, burping, fill. Now it never goes past the 3rd line by the 190.

What does the upgraded fan module have to do with the fan running on high? Like, what is initiating that? I thought the only thing that turned on the high speed fan was the PCM via the coolant temp sensor. Like your coolant is too hot.

 

[GTSnake]

That sounds too hot. Are you supercharged or turbo charged? If not, that is definitely too hot! Actually even if you are force fed it's too hot. With my turbos idling in traffic in 85 degress it never gets above the 1 oclock mark. Make sure you keep the A/C on. The fan is forced to stay on constantly so there's more air movement.

 

[PhilC]

"Make sure you keep the A/C on. The fan is forced to stay on constantly so there's more air movement."That's interesting, mine always gets cooler if I turn the a/c off. Once it's hot, the fan is running all the time anyway isn't it?

 

[dave6666]

"Make sure you keep the A/C on. The fan is forced to stay on constantly so there's more air movement."That's interesting, mine always gets cooler if I turn the a/c off. Once it's hot, the fan is running all the time anyway isn't it?

Exactly! My AC evaporator runs at 150+ degrees. So let's see... Take ambient air, and first run it over something that is depending on where you live, 40 to 70 degrees hotter to cool the radiator!

Yes my '01 GTS is in the collection of cars that runs cooler with the AC off.

It was actually in the low 80's here in Texas yesterday. Went out last night at about 7:00 to look for V8's and ran with the AC off. Only briefly tipped past 195 on the dash gauge.

It is amazing the cooling improvement from what was temps near 110 degrees outside a week ago! Heck, we sometimes have lows at night in the 90's!

 

[DAMN YANKEE]

This is too hot...

You must be registered for see images

 

[dave6666]

This is too hot...

You must be registered for see images

Is that an MGW shift knob???

 

[REDBLACK]

I put in a Ron Davis radiator after my PWR one got pin-holes in it. Anyway, after driving in the extreme heat here, I noticed that my car is running awefully hot. With the AC on and driving around for lunch, it runs up to the notch before the red hot line. So if around 190 is normal, is up to that notch way too hot?

Here is the deal with where I am living - It is in the mid-high 90's right now and the elevation is around 3600++.

After I put the radiatior in, I took it to a local shop to flush, refill and pressure test the coolant system. They said it was all good but after driving yesterday, it was running pretty high so we tried to burp it more last night. Today, same thing (running hotter than I remember it.) Shouldn't the Ron Davis radiator run cooler?

Speaking of, the Ron Davis radiator is way better than the PWR. Fitment was absolutely perfect and has a drain plug! The PWR one didn't have any screw holes and sine it was a triple pass, it was way too thick and I had to gap the fan shroud away from the radiator. Not only that, but it didn't have any mounting bolts so I had to make my own. The Ron Davis one uses all the ones from the stock radiator (thank god I kept them.)

I guess I am asking where the heat *should* be at with the upgraded fan shroud (MY99~02) and the Ron Davis radiator with the stock thermostat? I assume I should be worried and take it back to my local shop.

I have the exact same cooling setup as you. I had all my fluids changed yesterday including a flush and fill. The temp went to the mark before the red mark at 250. We shut it down and burped the air (there were a lot of air bubbles visible in the evacuation hose) and filled again. Took the car out and with the A/C on full cold was running at 190. It was about 90 degrees at the time. I believe you still have trapped air bubbles in your system. Good luck!

 

[cornfish]

So here is the update of where it is at now. I drained the coolant system yet again, and tried to burp the system again. It seemed as though everytime I squeezed the hose on the drivers side, it didn't seem to be filled with any fluid at all (even way above the 190 mark.) Not sure what is going on although it seems as though my thermostat isn't opening.

Waterpump? Thermostat? Not burped enough?

After shutting down the car, the coolant came flying out of the car since it was obviously way too hot and I had a fun time cleaning the garage. I would love to take it to the Dodge here but everyone I have talked to says that they have no clue what they are doing. Any suggestions?

By the way, I tried to look at the "How to" section on this site but it doesn't seem to be working. I just want my car to run good

Here is the info on the car:

1998 GTS
15,500 miles
SVS Stage 1 N/A package (cams, rr, throttle bodies, k&n, exhaust, etc.)
Just put in new plugs and mopar blue wires
Just put in redline trans fluid
Ron Davis radiator
100 degrees outside right now

Wtih that low miles, the thermostat and waterpump should be fine although I know anything can happen. Seriously, I am having some really bad luck right now since just today, I went to drive my wife's 2003 M3 convertible and her top stopped working 1/2 way down and now it won't go up or down. Anyway, thanks for all the replies and keep them coming!!

- Ron

 

[cornfish]

And yeah, that is a little hotter than mine

This is too hot...

You must be registered for see images

 

[dave6666]

The How To section is for VCA members. You might want to think about that, as you've obviously just run into your first obstacle in regards to that.

I'm thinking here... That you may have the filling and burping thing a little off.

When I do my GTS, from bone empty, I fill everything till it will take no more. Then I start the car for a minute or so, and then off for 15 minutes. Repeat as needed until finally the t-stat opens and fluid flows.

This process takes SEVERAL hours. At no point do I let the temp get above 190.

Quick review...

Run car for 60 seconds, shut off for 15 minutes. Add fluid to reservoir as needed. We're practicing heat soak.

If you are not getting fluid to the upper hose, as in it isn't burning the snot out of your hand, you don't have fluid flow yet.

Once the stat opens, I add a good amount more fluid, as it needs it, shut it down, cap it and drive it. With the fascia tank at the halfway mark in the wheelwell, I'll loose about less than 1 inch more to natural air purging.

Sooooooooooooooo, if you just filled the thing up and gave it a one shot run to 250 degrees and said ***, I'd review your technique.

Another quick review...

It takes me about 3 to 4 hours using that technique, but have done it several times with no problems and repeatable results. The system is self purging to a degree, for SMALL air amounts. I apparently leave a very small amount of air, as I loose a small amount of fluid from the fascia bottle.

Speaking of, make sure that container is filled properly with coolant. Make sure the hose connection to the tank by the engine has a good seal. If that is a bad hose joint, it will **** air upon cool down, instead of sucking in fluid.

***. Why did that button just say "Post Quick Reply?" This took a while.

***.

 

[cornfish]

Well, I called and faxed in my VCA membership payment form so hopefully that will be hooked up soon. I ended up paying for the Venom membership because I didn't pay when I first got the car (hehe.) Thanks for all of the info. I will try to follow your steps again later this week and hopefully that works. Right now, it seems to be running between the notch just to the right of the center and the notch before 250. I still think that is too hot with what I have in the car + the redline water wetter.

The How To section is for VCA members. You might want to think about that, as you've obviously just run into your first obstacle in regards to that.

I'm thinking here... That you may have the filling and burping thing a little off.

When I do my GTS, from bone empty, I fill everything till it will take no more. Then I start the car for a minute or so, and then off for 15 minutes. Repeat as needed until finally the t-stat opens and fluid flows.

This process takes SEVERAL hours. At no point do I let the temp get above 190.

Quick review...

Run car for 60 seconds, shut off for 15 minutes. Add fluid to reservoir as needed. We're practicing heat soak.

If you are not getting fluid to the upper hose, as in it isn't burning the snot out of your hand, you don't have fluid flow yet.

Once the stat opens, I add a good amount more fluid, as it needs it, shut it down, cap it and drive it. With the fascia tank at the halfway mark in the wheelwell, I'll loose about less than 1 inch more to natural air purging.

Sooooooooooooooo, if you just filled the thing up and gave it a one shot run to 250 degrees and said ***, I'd review your technique.

Another quick review...

It takes me about 3 to 4 hours using that technique, but have done it several times with no problems and repeatable results. The system is self purging to a degree, for SMALL air amounts. I apparently leave a very small amount of air, as I loose a small amount of fluid from the fascia bottle.

Speaking of, make sure that container is filled properly with coolant. Make sure the hose connection to the tank by the engine has a good seal. If that is a bad hose joint, it will **** air upon cool down, instead of sucking in fluid.

***. Why did that button just say "Post Quick Reply?" This took a while.

***.

 

[vip06]

It mite be the radiator cap. I had same problem it got hot then when you would shut it down antifreeze would pour out. I changed out the cap and no more problems.

 

[dave6666]

Well, I called and faxed in my VCA membership payment form so hopefully that will be hooked up soon. I ended up paying for the Venom membership because I didn't pay when I first got the car (hehe.) Thanks for all of the info. I will try to follow your steps again later this week and hopefully that works. Right now, it seems to be running between the notch just to the right of the center and the notch before 250. I still think that is too hot with what I have in the car + the redline water wetter.

In Texas... 110 degrees out... AC on... Sitting in traffic... I run near (not at, not to, but near) the last mark before the red line. I think someone called it the 2:30 line. Do I consider that to be normal and acceptable? Yes. It's hot as can be out, I'm preheating the 110 deg air with the AC evap to an even hotter temp, and the car is not moving. 220 water temp is just fine with me. It's when it doesn't cool down when you get moving along for a bit that you have a problem. Or if it pukes to the fascia bottle. My car has neither of those problems. At 220 degree coolant temp, stuck in traffic.

Not that this is your case, but when people start whining about the heat and their car temps and all that crap when it's 89 degrees fixing to be in the 90's, I have to go to my padded room so I won't injure myself laughing.

If your car runs 190 or so on the freeway, and then heats up to the 220 mark in traffic, I would not be concerned. Especially if it's 110 degrees out and you have the AC on. Even if it's only a chilly 90 degrees out my car might still get to near 220 with the AC on stuck in traffic, it will just take longer to do so and cool faster once I start moving.

If you routinely go over the 220 mark during normal driving, I would investigate.

If your car does not respond quickly by reducing temps upon exiting city traffic - AKA sitting at lights - and getting on the freeway and having good air movement, I would investigate.

You'll get dizzy watching the gauge on my '01 go up and down. It's when it does something I've never seen before that I get concerned. And I see 220 all the time gazing at the bank thermometer reading 110 while sitting at a light thinking this would be better with an ice cold Lone Star.

 

[cornfish]

Yeah, last weekend the issue was that it wouldn't go down. Remember that I was saying we had it running at the notch before 250 and now we have it a little lower than that (which leads me to think that there is still air in the line.) This is my second viper and I just wanted to get your guys' opinions on it. Keep in mind that I took it to a shop and they started claiming "radiator" or "thermostat." That is why I went here.

I appreciate all the info and will try to work on it this week. I seem to get off of work after 7pm and normally not in the mood to play around with it. I might take Friday off to do it since I want to take the fan shroud out for a look anyway.

Thanks again for your input dave, I will definitely repeat your steps to "burp" it.

- Ron

In Texas... 110 degrees out... AC on... Sitting in traffic... I run near (not at, not to, but near) the last mark before the red line. I think someone called it the 2:30 line. Do I consider that to be normal and acceptable? Yes. It's hot as can be out, I'm preheating the 110 deg air with the AC evap to an even hotter temp, and the car is not moving. 220 water temp is just fine with me. It's when it doesn't cool down when you get moving along for a bit that you have a problem. Or if it pukes to the fascia bottle. My car has neither of those problems. At 220 degree coolant temp, stuck in traffic.

Not that this is your case, but when people start whining about the heat and their car temps and all that crap when it's 89 degrees fixing to be in the 90's, I have to go to my padded room so I won't injure myself laughing.

If your car runs 190 or so on the freeway, and then heats up to the 220 mark in traffic, I would not be concerned. Especially if it's 110 degrees out and you have the AC on. Even if it's only a chilly 90 degrees out my car might still get to near 220 with the AC on stuck in traffic, it will just take longer to do so and cool faster once I start moving.

If you routinely go over the 220 mark during normal driving, I would investigate.

If your car does not respond quickly by reducing temps upon exiting city traffic - AKA sitting at lights - and getting on the freeway and having good air movement, I would investigate.

You'll get dizzy watching the gauge on my '01 go up and down. It's when it does something I've never seen before that I get concerned. And I see 220 all the time gazing at the bank thermometer reading 110 while sitting at a light thinking this would be better with an ice cold Lone Star.

 

[TAILWAG]

I have had my first Viper (only Viper), a 98 GTS for about 1 1/2 weeks now. The owner warned about these cars running warm...but man, was he not kidding! After reading dozens of posts, it seems it is simply the nature of the car. It is 75 degrees out and driving around town, the car runs at the line to the right of the 190 degree mark...during heavy traffic and lights on a 90 degree day, it fluctuates between that same mark and the 220 mark...only when I get on it hard would it go up to the 220 mark, but then comes down pretty darn quick to the line to the right of the 190 degre mark.

On any other car I would have been nervous/paranoid...but I guess I just need to get used to it... : )

 

[GT40DOC]

I have had my first Viper (only Viper), a 98 GTS for about 1 1/2 weeks now. The owner warned about these cars running warm...but man, was he not kidding! After reading dozens of posts, it seems it is simply the nature of the car. It is 75 degrees out and driving around town, the car runs at the line to the right of the 190 degree mark...during heavy traffic and lights on a 90 degree day, it fluctuates between that same mark and the 220 mark...only when I get on it hard would it go up to the 220 mark, but then comes down pretty darn quick to the line to the right of the 190 degre mark.

On any other car I would have been nervous/paranoid...but I guess I just need to get used to it... : )

That is exactly what my 97GTS does, unless it is one of our "wonderful" 114-116F days, then it goes higher. I have had the computer turn off my A/C compressor, due to water temp. All normal according to manual, and our Viper Tech.

 

[dave6666]

That is exactly what my 97GTS does, unless it is one of our "wonderful" 114-116F days, then it goes higher. I have had the computer turn off my A/C compressor, due to water temp. All normal according to manual, and our Viper Tech.

I'm trying to remember not to drive the fool thing when it gets that hot outside. Well, except for those 5 minute blasts to the Quikie Mart for a twelver...

 

[viper spray]

My 97 temp gauge reads 10 degrees higher than the actual temp. , I checked .

 

[TAILWAG]

My 97 temp gauge reads 10 degrees higher than the actual temp. , I checked .

Silly question, but how did you check this?

 

[dave6666]

Silly question, but how did you check this?

Easy way would be to shoot an IR thermometer at the t-stat housing right on top of the engine. That aluminum part should be fairly representative of the internal water temp. Aluminum is a great heat conductor.