How Will DC/Viper Respond to The Z06?

[vipah]

What do people think that the Viper team will do?

Will they improve the SRT power numbers?

I think that we will see the Viper program canceled soon.

Hard to beleive DC will bow down to the new Chevy.

By the way, has anyone else noticed how any thread that talks critically about DC and Viper seems to get moved to some far away place on the site? Why is that?

 

[TCKTPLZ]

I probably shouldn't be posting this but here are the targeted specs I received from someone up top at DC:

GENERAL

Curb weight
3100 lb
Weight distribution, F/R 40% / 60%
Fuel capacity 19.0 U.S. gal. (72 liters)
Wheelbase 106.30 in. (2700 mm)
Track, F/R 68.82 in. (1748 mm) / 67.32 in (1710 mm)
Width 78.35 in. (1990 mm)
Front overhang 40.59 in. (1031 mm)
Rear overhang 41.14 in. (1045 mm)
Length 187.95 in. (4774 mm)
Height 40.98 in. (1041 mm)
Ground clearance 4.00 in. (102 mm)

CHASSIS
4130 lightweight steel space frame
with honeycomb composite panels

ENGINE
Type All-aluminum V10, Pushrod
Displacement 9.3liters
Compression ratio 9.0:1
Pistons Forged aluminum
Connecting rods 4340 forged billet steel
Crankshaft 4340 forged billet steel
Induction system Air enters a hood intake, passes through two 70-mm mass air meter, feeding a carbon fiber plenum; from the plenum, air is routed to two twin-ball-bearing turbos, passes through an oval bore-throttle body into an aluminum intake manifold with ten individual runners
Cylinder heads CNC machined, all-aluminum,
Valves Stainless steel with titanium retainers;
Intake: 2.02 in.Exhaust: 1.80 in.
Beryllium exhaust seats
Valve train Solid lifter/roller rocker
Exhaust system Stainless steel high flow with merge collector incorporating dual catalysts per cylinder bank and EGR system; two twin-ball-bearing turbos with 44-mm wastegates
Required fuel 91 octane
Alternator 140 amps
Battery 12 volts
Front Engine Accessory Drive (FEAD) Compact drive system with side-mounted water pump
Emission control system OBD-II compliant; dual, heated oxygen sensors
per bank; high-volume EVAP system
Fuel system High-capacity returnless with 52 lb/hr injectors
Oil system High-vacuum dry sump configuration;
Capacity: 12.6 qt (12.0 liters); aluminum oil tank
Horsepower 800 bhp @ 6300 rpm
Torque 850 lb-ft @ 4800 RPM
Redline 6500 rpm


Summer 2007.

 

[Hirohawa]

Is this true?

 

[ledfoot]

Insert smiley icon, with B.S. flag.Here.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Is this true?

Why yes...Yes it is

 

[Andy 98 RT/10]

If they made a 9 Liter, 650 hp Viper I'd buy it in a second. Somehow, I don't see DC doing that though

 

[Mopar426]

I probably shouldn't be posting this but here are the targeted specs I received from someone up top at DC:

GENERAL

Curb weight
3100 lb
Weight distribution, F/R 40% / 60%
Fuel capacity 19.0 U.S. gal. (72 liters)
Wheelbase 106.30 in. (2700 mm)
Track, F/R 68.82 in. (1748 mm) / 67.32 in (1710 mm)
Width 78.35 in. (1990 mm)
Front overhang 40.59 in. (1031 mm)
Rear overhang 41.14 in. (1045 mm)
Length 187.95 in. (4774 mm)
Height 40.98 in. (1041 mm)
Ground clearance 4.00 in. (102 mm)

CHASSIS
4130 lightweight steel space frame
with honeycomb composite panels

ENGINE
Type All-aluminum V10, Pushrod
Displacement 9.3liters
Compression ratio 9.0:1
Pistons Forged aluminum
Connecting rods 4340 forged billet steel
Crankshaft 4340 forged billet steel
Induction system Air enters a hood intake, passes through two 70-mm mass air meter, feeding a carbon fiber plenum; from the plenum, air is routed to two twin-ball-bearing turbos, passes through an oval bore-throttle body into an aluminum intake manifold with ten individual runners
Cylinder heads CNC machined, all-aluminum,
Valves Stainless steel with titanium retainers;
Intake: 2.02 in.Exhaust: 1.80 in.
Beryllium exhaust seats
Valve train Solid lifter/roller rocker
Exhaust system Stainless steel high flow with merge collector incorporating dual catalysts per cylinder bank and EGR system; two twin-ball-bearing turbos with 44-mm wastegates
Required fuel 91 octane
Alternator 140 amps
Battery 12 volts
Front Engine Accessory Drive (FEAD) Compact drive system with side-mounted water pump
Emission control system OBD-II compliant; dual, heated oxygen sensors
per bank; high-volume EVAP system
Fuel system High-capacity returnless with 52 lb/hr injectors
Oil system High-vacuum dry sump configuration;
Capacity: 12.6 qt (12.0 liters); aluminum oil tank
Horsepower 800 bhp @ 6300 rpm
Torque 850 lb-ft @ 4800 RPM
Redline 6500 rpm


Summer 2007.

I hear the Brooklyn Bridge is for sale as well.....

 

[plumcrazy]

too little too late as usual with DC.

 

[05 Venom]

Hope DC does something. Suprised there was no power increase with the coupe.
Still keep in touch with old Vette buddies and was told the numbers on the new Z06 are VERY IMPRESSIVE. 0-60 in 3.7 and 1'4 mile 11.5-11.7 range over 125mph.

However, still looks TOO similar to the base C6.

 

[Andy 98 RT/10]

Hope DC does something. Suprised there was no power increase with the coupe.
Still keep in touch with old Vette buddies and was told the numbers on the new Z06 are VERY IMPRESSIVE. 0-60 in 3.7 and 1'4 mile 11.5-11.7 range over 125mph.

However, still looks TOO similar to the base C6.

I'm not saying it won't be able to do that. But remember, we need to see independent tests of actual production cars before we can make that claim.

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

Have some faith fellow VIPER lovers. DC already has made something faster than the new ZO6. It's called the Competition Coupe. Although it's not street legal now I am sure it wouldn't be too much of a stretch since cars like the Ferrari F40, ENZO, and Mclaren F1 exist. Speaking of the Mclaren F1, it was based on a Mercedes car. DC did make a 240mph car in the past and it may be time to turn the Competition Coupe into a street legal 250mph or more supercar. I'm sure there would be a market no matter what the price and only minor mods are required. This would elevate the Viper image as the supercar and make room for the proposed Chrysler Firepower that I view as a gentleman's Viper.

 

[big-n-italian]

Dont be suprised if we get a Hemi, and two more doors.

 

[Viperfreak2]

Love that weight distribution! 40% front 60% rear? Are you kidding me? That would be WORSE than a rear engined 911! (or a corvair)

Hmmm, thinking about the some of the specs of the Me412?

 

[99 R/T 10]

If it doesn't happen this year, (whatever they decide to do), our only response to the new Z06 owners is going to be, "just wait untill next year!".

 

[radta7]

If it doesn't happen this year, (whatever they decide to do), our only response to the new Z06 owners is going to be, "just wait untill next year!".

Being a Cubs fan I am all too familiar with this quote. BTW, it is not a positive one.

 

[dirk989]

Oh my gawd! The new Vette, that isn't even out yet, sure has got a lot of ******* in tight little knots. You are saying that the new Vette is the death knell of the entire Viper program? Wow.

I can see hordes of ****** challenged middle aged men rushing out to get rid of their Viper because GM is going to build a car that may outperform it.

I happen to have bought a Viper because I love the car, not just so I can say 'mine is bigger than yours.' Heading into the office today with the top down it didn't occur to me that GM may be building a car that might line up next to me and if we both get exact perfect launches then it may beat me to the next stoplight by 7 1/2 feet. Nor did it occur to me that if GM builds the car to the released specs and I enter a corner at 150mph next to one, then it might come out of that corner more confidently.

Thanks for getting me to think about those important issues. Hopefully I will be able to forget how much I love my car and realize that GM may be building a car for approximately the same money, with slightly less weight and considerably less torque. Knowing these important facts I will work hard to keep myself from enjoying my Viper.

By the way, imagine how much better that Vette is going to be than a silver 99 GTS???


Dirk

 

[SHEVIPER]

I went to CAAP last week and the guy giving our tour said that there would be only minor changes for '07, and that those would mainly be for the new emissions regulations. He said that there would be a good horsepower increase for '08. Of course, he didn't say what that increase would be.

 

[AG98RT10]

Re: How Should DC/Viper Respond to The Z06?

Well, they SHOULD respond by upping HP in 06 cpe to 550, at least. Then, as soon as possible, offer an ACR version of the coupe with CC oil system, Quaife, ACR shocks, 5 points, etc., etc.,...
But, in the meantime, did you know that Woodhouse will install the Paxton on your new SRT-10 (or Coupe) for 10K - and honor your factory warranty?
I called today and that is what they told me.
So, for whatever price you negotiate for your new Viper, plus 10K, you can absolutely BURY the new Z06.
Since I don't have 90K plus sitting around, I may put a Roe on my Gen II

 

[vipah]

Re: How Should DC/Viper Respond to The Z06?

Dirk,

It looks like you have a serious inferiority complex that needs dealing with.

Perhaps you are just angry because you spent so much on a car that won't outperform a Vette.

I guess your important issue isn't performance and is simply looks. You should have just bought a Viper kit car.

LMAO

 

[hemibeep]

Re: How Should DC/Viper Respond to The Z06?

Of course DC needs to up the stakes......

But, I will just stick with my 97' and enjoy the ride.

There will ALWAYS be a faster car than mine, but I chose STYLE points. The viper is/was my dream car, and I really don't care what other car manu. do.....

DC will do something....now toss a coin and see if its heads or tails!

 

[TCKTPLZ]

Love that weight distribution! 40% front 60% rear? Are you kidding me? That would be WORSE than a rear engined 911! (or a corvair)

Does this look better?:

GENERAL

Curb weight
3100 lb
Weight distribution, F/R 50% / 50%
Fuel capacity 19.0 U.S. gal. (72 liters)
Wheelbase 106.30 in. (2700 mm)
Track, F/R 68.82 in. (1748 mm) / 67.32 in (1710 mm)
Width 78.35 in. (1990 mm)
Front overhang 40.59 in. (1031 mm)
Rear overhang 41.14 in. (1045 mm)
Length 187.95 in. (4774 mm)
Height 40.98 in. (1041 mm)
Ground clearance 4.00 in. (102 mm)

CHASSIS
4130 lightweight steel space frame
with honeycomb composite panels

ENGINE
Type All-aluminum V10, Pushrod
Displacement 9.3liters
Compression ratio 9.0:1
Pistons Forged aluminum
Connecting rods 4340 forged billet steel
Crankshaft 4340 forged billet steel
Induction system Air enters a hood intake, passes through two 70-mm mass air meter, feeding a carbon fiber plenum; from the plenum, air is routed to two twin-ball-bearing turbos, passes through an oval bore-throttle body into an aluminum intake manifold with ten individual runners
Cylinder heads CNC machined, all-aluminum,
Valves Stainless steel with titanium retainers;
Intake: 2.02 in.Exhaust: 1.80 in.
Beryllium exhaust seats
Valve train Solid lifter/roller rocker
Exhaust system Stainless steel high flow with merge collector incorporating dual catalysts per cylinder bank and EGR system; two twin-ball-bearing turbos with 44-mm wastegates
Required fuel 91 octane
Alternator 140 amps
Battery 12 volts
Front Engine Accessory Drive (FEAD) Compact drive system with side-mounted water pump
Emission control system OBD-II compliant; dual, heated oxygen sensors
per bank; high-volume EVAP system
Fuel system High-capacity returnless with 52 lb/hr injectors
Oil system High-vacuum dry sump configuration;
Capacity: 12.6 qt (12.0 liters); aluminum oil tank
Horsepower 800 bhp @ 6300 rpm
Torque 850 lb-ft @ 4800 RPM
Redline 6500 rpm

I spoke with some people up top at DC and they corrected this. Anything else you would like changed/altered/added? Cupholder(s)? Sequential Gearbox? Elimintation of Honda S2000 looks?

 

[MAVERICK]

wishful thinking...

 

[dirk989]

Yawwwwn. Steve, my 'inferiority complex' doesn't cause me to whine and cry that the new Vette is supposed to outperform the existing Vipers. If that sort of thing worried me then I would point out that my 04 will eat your 99 for lunch. That sort of thing doesn't bother me.

You say that you prefer your 99 to the Gen III even though the Gen III will outperform your 99. You like the style better. I understand that viewpoint. I merely said that it really doesn't matter that the new Vette is claiming to outperform the existing Viper to many of us. That fact alone is not going to 'kill the entire Viper program.' If that was true then you would have dumped your 99 as soon as the Gen III came out. Many of us still prefer a Viper to a Vette. The fact that the new Z06 (Really nice car, by the way) is supposed to be lighter and with only a little less torque and that it is wringing equal horsepower out of a much smaller powerplant - is not going to kill off the entire Viper program or make people dump their Vipers.

Competition is good. Maybe you will be trading your 99 for a new Z06 in the near future? For $30k you could get out of your GTS and into a Z06. I'm sure that doesn't sound terribly appealing to me, again proving my point.

Dirk

 

[vipah]

I wonder what other projects they will put on hold pending
proof of profitability???


http://motortrend.com/features/news/112_0505_mclaren/

 

[Fiorano]

I think Dodge needs to produce a comp coupe bodied street car. The SRT-10 coupe leaves me with no desire to trade in my GTS. A street legal comp coupe will send me running to the dealer.

 

[05 Venom]

Man, I'd pay anything to have a comp coupe bodied street version. The black one with the red stripe in the summer issue of Viper mag looks friggin' awesome.

 

[kickinasp]

Its amazing to me to see people talk about things that they dont know anything about and of course its always negative. First off, think about why GM brought out the Z06 with all the special materials, powertrain, etc., one goal, regain the #1 spot as the fastest US sportscar, that they lost in 1992. It took them 13 years. The Viper pushed GM to do this car. Now, Dodge will respond. We should all be thankful. If not for the Z06, why would Dodge take the effort to make the Viper any better? Of course they could just play the tennis game of adding 50 more HP each time someone comes close or beats it. But they also could do a car that simply pushes the limit and see HP figures near 800. One thing most people forget is there is a limit to how much HP can be put down to the pavement. There is a point where more is not better...it just results in loss of traction. So more HP will see the introduction of traction control, because Dodge will have to be responsible for the many people that buy a Viper and cant handle 400 HP let alone 600 plus. Bottom line is this.... the Z06 will push Dodge to improve the Viper and that is a win for all of us. Oh, btw... have a friend that works for GM and there are issues with the Z06 engine living...seems that the cooling of the dry sump is not working as thought resulting in engine failures. I am sure they will work out the bugs. I would rather wait a few years to get a killer Viper rather than a 50 HP one up over the Z06. Plus it gives me some time to save the $$.

 

[vipah]

Its amazing to me to see people talk about things that they dont know anything about and of course its always negative. First off, think about why GM brought out the Z06 with all the special materials, powertrain, etc., one goal, regain the #1 spot as the fastest US sportscar, that they lost in 1992. It took them 13 years. The Viper pushed GM to do this car. Now, Dodge will respond. We should all be thankful. If not for the Z06, why would Dodge take the effort to make the Viper any better? Of course they could just play the tennis game of adding 50 more HP each time someone comes close or beats it. But they also could do a car that simply pushes the limit and see HP figures near 800. One thing most people forget is there is a limit to how much HP can be put down to the pavement. There is a point where more is not better...it just results in loss of traction. So more HP will see the introduction of traction control, because Dodge will have to be responsible for the many people that buy a Viper and cant handle 400 HP let alone 600 plus. Bottom line is this.... the Z06 will push Dodge to improve the Viper and that is a win for all of us. Oh, btw... have a friend that works for GM and there are issues with the Z06 engine living...seems that the cooling of the dry sump is not working as thought resulting in engine failures. I am sure they will work out the bugs. I would rather wait a few years to get a killer Viper rather than a 50 HP one up over the Z06. Plus it gives me some time to save the $$.

What makes you so certain Dodge will respond? I have seen nothing that would indicate such action from Dodge. Instead they send all the signals to the contrary.

The fact remains that Chevy caught Viper. When you are number one you should do what it takes to remain number one and not relinquish the position. It wasn't like this is a big surprise from Chevy. The folks at Dodge either kept their heads in the sand, or had directives to put attention elsewhere. Either way, it isn't a good sign for Viper.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Kickinasp, great common sense response, and one that reads well. I have a bit of a problem with folks who complain that DC screwed up, and yet there is not a Professional team on the Planet that could claim Number 1 for 13 straight years. So what if we may be a bit back on hp for one year, I for one firmly believe we will be back at the top very soon. I guess my feeling , knowing the rabid engineers we have on the SRT Team, is that when we come back we don't want to match the competition, we will annihilate them. Patience will be a virtue, as the rumors of problems with the new Z06 continue to persist, so ...
maybe it will be like the Ford GT, and take longer to come out than projected.By then who knows what the Secret Racing Techs will have up their sleeve.

 

[mit]

In 1996, the Viper GTS coupe had 450 horsepower. The 2006 models will have 500. In those 10 years, we have not seen significant weight reduction or traction control or any kind of advancement in engine technology. Given that 10 year run, I do not share your optimism that DC is going to come back and blow Chevy out of the water. They have had 10 years to advance the platform. While there has been a body change, ABS and improved suspension, that is not a significant enough body of work in 10 years to think that DC maintains the commitment to the Viper program that they had in the early to mid 90s. People can say whatever they want, the actions over the past 10 years and the roadmap that has been made public is all I can go on. To me, neither makes it a slam dunk that the 600 horsepower 3000lb traction controlled Viper is imminent. Based on their actions, DC is going to stay with the 8.3 block, have small horsepower upgrades periodically and focus on different colors and interior packages.

The Viper is still a blast to drive and there was no contract signed by any of us that the Viper would always smoke the Corvette but you have been saying the engineers at DC have something up their sleeve for the past 4 years and nothing has happened.