Nancy options on the Viper

[BlackSnake99]

yawn... yet ANOTHER ninnies for nannies thread.

No joke, dude. All I can say is I am glad I got a non-ABS, non-ESC, non-throttle-by-wire, non-variable valve timing, '99 VIPER. Its what I think a Viper should be. To each his/her own. Hopefully the more that is added to the new Viper, the more desirable 'pure' years will become.

PS- I never turn on the radio, leave the (power) widows down, and only use the AC when the wifey complains that the make-up in her purse on the floorboard is melting.

 

[Warfang]

Didn't you know there is a button for that??

You must be registered for see images

These threads are more than just a nuisance. They take up bandwidth that we pay for, and they foster divided camps within the club. This argument will never be decided, and no one is going to change the other person's mind, so having it rehashed every couple weeks is just stupid.

Unless you have something new to bring to the argument... give it a rest already.

 

[WILDASP]

This argument will never be decided, and no one is going to change the other person's mind,

Probably right, Warfang (unless the feds decide it for us with yet more regulations, that is). The main problem, I think, is that the electronic nannies seem to induce a lot of false confidence in quite a few drivers (including some who should know better). Numerous examples can be found in the Z06 sections of Vette forums. I remember one instance where this basically caused one individual to crash a C-6 Z06. The short version went like this: he was used to a C-5 Z06, the ESC of which would grab the car at the first hint of loose, and had just switched to the C-6, in which the nanny intervenes after giving quite a bit more leeway. Cool morning, damp road, cold tires; he took a corner the way he was used to doing, got loose and waited for the ESC to catch it for him. When it failed to do so as quickly as he epected, he panicked, stabbed the brake....and naturaly, brake oversteered himself right off the inside of the corner (fortunately with only minor damage). He initially claimed he spun off the corner, but a few questions and the pic he posted of his skid marks (fronts leading rears right off the pavement) revealed the truth of the matter Whether the ESC would have saved his bacon had he been more patoient is beside the point, of course; if he hadn't been expecting the thing to cover his mistakes, he'd likely not have taken the corner that way under those conditions in the first place.

That's one of many similar instances I've heard of, and collectively these make me wonder if these devices don't actually make more than a few a bit too brave for their own good. It's something to think about.

 

[Kevan]

I remember one instance where this basically caused one individual to crash a C-6 Z06. The short version went like this: he was used to a C-5 Z06, the ESC of which would grab the car at the first hint of loose, and had just switched to the C-6, in which the nanny intervenes after giving quite a bit more leeway. Cool morning, damp road, cold tires; he took a corner the way he was used to doing, got loose and waited for the ESC to catch it for him. When it failed to do so as quickly as he epected, he panicked, stabbed the brake....and naturaly, brake oversteered himself right off the inside of the corner (fortunately with only minor damage). He initially claimed he spun off the corner, but a few questions and the pic he posted of his skid marks (fronts leading rears right off the pavement) revealed the truth of the matter Whether the ESC would have saved his bacon had he been more patoient is beside the point, of course; if he hadn't been expecting the thing to cover his mistakes, he'd likely not have taken the corner that way under those conditions in the first place.

104% Operator Error.

 

[Warfang]

Probably right, Warfang (unless the feds decide it for us with yet more regulations, that is). The main problem, I think, is that the electronic nannies seem to induce a lot of false confidence in quite a few drivers (including some who should know better). Numerous examples can be found in the Z06 sections of Vette forums. I remember one instance where this basically caused one individual to crash a C-6 Z06. The short version went like this: he was used to a C-5 Z06, the ESC of which would grab the car at the first hint of loose, and had just switched to the C-6, in which the nanny intervenes after giving quite a bit more leeway. Cool morning, damp road, cold tires; he took a corner the way he was used to doing, got loose and waited for the ESC to catch it for him. When it failed to do so as quickly as he epected, he panicked, stabbed the brake....and naturaly, brake oversteered himself right off the inside of the corner (fortunately with only minor damage). He initially claimed he spun off the corner, but a few questions and the pic he posted of his skid marks (fronts leading rears right off the pavement) revealed the truth of the matter Whether the ESC would have saved his bacon had he been more patoient is beside the point, of course; if he hadn't been expecting the thing to cover his mistakes, he'd likely not have taken the corner that way under those conditions in the first place.

That's one of many similar instances I've heard of, and collectively these make me wonder if these devices don't actually make more than a few a bit too brave for their own good. It's something to think about.

All good points, but you know what? It's been made. A hundred times over. What's the point? The govt IS planning on mandating some sort of nanny. Maybe we'll find some loophole. Who knows. The few ninnies here who have no business buying Vipers come here every couple weeks and start the same argument. The rest of us won't just let this trash go unanswered, so here we are.... probably 100,000 combined posts later on the same topic with the same handful of points over and over again. There must be a better use of our time, better things to discuss. That's why I ask the mods here to act.

Moderators "moderate" discussions, meaning help steer the discourse of the group... not just flex their muscle when pictures of BBQ's are posted... although there is a place for that.

Fact is, the Viper is not for these ninnies. They want it to be something else. Marry the person you love, not the person you think you can turn them into. Sage advice, I think. These people are incapable of being honest to themselves... like a 300lbs girl buying size 2 jeans. Buy what fits you. A Viper definitely doesn't.

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

I'd predict this theme of threads in the future..

2006 Chevrolet Corvette Consumer Complaints

DigitalCorvettes.com - ABS and Active Handling Service

active handling problems(have codes) - Corvette Forum

Big active handling problem - Corvette Forums - Corvette Enthusiast Site

 

[ViperGeorge]

For once I actually agree with Warfang on something. Neither side will change the other side's mind. We should let this topic die and leave it to Chrysler to deal with when the government says they must. This will absolutely be my last post on the subject.

One other thing though, I do resent Warfang's constant use of the term ninnies to describe that part of the club that does not agree with his position. Unless of course ninnies is a term of affection in California. If so hugs and kisses back at ya.

 

[WILDASP]

104% Operator Error.

Absolutely! Enhanced and encouraged in this case by a false sense of security. Handing some people 500+ hp (with or without nannies) is like handing a kid a loaded AK-47.

 

[1badsrt]

Dont you guys have a WOT box or tuning software that can add similar features?

 

[eucharistos]

....these devices don't actually make more than a few a bit too brave for their own good.

but they are really good at that move in need for speed (insert any other driving vid game)

when the wrx 1st came out i know a guy who thought the 4 wheel drive, turbo meant he could take an unbanked 90 at 55 (on the street) in his new wrx

wheels, suspension, labor later he knows the driver still plays a part in driving..........go figure

 

[CarDude]

Just like antilock brakes, I am sure...soon...all cars will be required to have an anti-skid program. Next thing you know there will be no way to defeat the program because the government will deem it a safety necessity (probably due in part to insurance companies).

Think about it...next time you are in an accident (whether your fault or not), what if your insurance company where to inquire if you had disabled your traction/skid...if it were not on...they deny your claim. As in-you are at fault- for taking measures into your own hands.

 

[Warfang]

For once I actually agree with Warfang on something. Neither side will change the other side's mind. We should let this topic die and leave it to Chrysler to deal with when the government says they must. This will absolutely be my last post on the subject.

One other thing though, I do resent Warfang's constant use of the term ninnies to describe that part of the club that does not agree with his position. Unless of course ninnies is a term of affection in California. If so hugs and kisses back at ya.

awww... did I hurt your wittle feelwings?

We don't complain when called backwards or neanderthals because we don't believe in nannies. It's a fun alliteration. That's all. If it sends you crying to momma, then I'll stop. Really. (taunting for comedic effect only... in case you really ARE that sensitive)

Fact is, we have more in common than not, so let's focus on that. Let's not dwell on what we have no control over.

 

[Kevan]

Just like antilock brakes, I am sure...soon...all cars will be required to have an anti-skid program. Next thing you know there will be no way to defeat the program because the government will deem it a safety necessity (probably due in part to insurance companies).

Think about it...next time you are in an accident (whether your fault or not), what if your insurance company where to inquire if you had disabled your traction/skid...if it were not on...they deny your claim. As in-you are at fault- for taking measures into your own hands.

Sorry Lawrence, but that day is already upon us.
IIRC vehicle "black boxes" have been installed in all US vehicles since 2006 or 2007.
It provides basic info of what the car was doing immediately prior to the event for both law enforcement and ins. companies.

 

[dave6666]

I think they're gaining ground on you Warfang. Isn't this 2 strong and healthy nanny posts going simultaneously?

 

[propsail]

Hey now! I like power windows!
If you listen closely, you can hear a bunch of Gen.I owners dreaming about power windows.

True Dat!!

 

[WILDASP]

Fact is, we have more in common than not, so let's focus on that. Let's not dwell on what we have no control over.

Absolutely correct, Warfang, and I hope we can all remember that when tempers get frayed in the heat of argument. The fact is, what we have here is a philosophical difference over how to preserve the car we are all so passionate about. So, rather than gettimg into yet another machismo measuring contest among ourselves, let's be philosophical for a moment.

Assuming that our beloved Snake makes it to its twentieth year in something approximating its concept as we have known it, well, in automotive terms, that's an eternity; look at all the great cars and great marques that came and were gone from production in far less time.

This has gotten to be more problematic in the society and times we live in; in a culture of instant gratification, that demands not just good, not just great, but perfect, all the while scorning personal responsibility, too many of us want it all, and we want it now. What's the perfect sports car? Well, depending on who you ask, it should have unlimited power, exclusive good looks that turn heads everywhere, offer all the amenities we want and none we don't, be as quiet or loud as we want, make any of our driving skills look like a pro's......and of course, never, ever, let us hurt ourselves or crash, even if we are sloppy, inattentive or just plain reckless; oh, and by the way, Mr. Manufacturer, we'd like that in a package for a hundred grand or less, thank you!

For all the fuss and the feuding and the controversy over this or that, the truth is, we are living in a golden moment with the Viper, whether it's Gen 1,2 3,4 or whatever. Yes, the car has evolved, and the changes have not pleased everyone. Technologically speaking, the Viper is the best it's ever been, and whatever any of us think of the changes, it still turns heads with its looks, its sound, and its reputation. That's why we love it. It's unique; it's an icon; its place in history is secure. Like us, someday, its time too will pass, but for now, we have this time, this moment, and the Viper, in all its sound and fury and thrills, and in this age, that's a remarkable thing to savor. Let's just enjoy it. Whether it's because, or in spite of, all our complaining to and about Chrysler, Dodge, the engineering team, and the folks at CAAP, they've given us one heckuva ride!

 

[eucharistos]

Let's not dwell on what we have no control over.

you mean like a car w/o nanny tech

 

[Warfang]

I think they're gaining ground on you Warfang. Isn't this 2 strong and healthy nanny posts going simultaneously?

I think there's 3... stupidity always gains ground in the beginning, but lose out in the end.

 

[Warfang]

you mean like a car w/o nanny tech

I have plenty of control... so says the many skip barber certificates hanging on my wall (kidding).

 

[korina]

I drive a 97 so I don't even have ABS but I would suggest all the non believers in the electronic nannies take a ride in a GT-R at speed. I can only imagine how great of a car my Viper would be with all those computers in it. In the end all the computers in the car make for a much better performing car. I remember when I wanted a carb and a distributor on any car I owned. I thought injection was the end of the hot rodding world. I would pay to have that stuff put in my GTS if I could in a heartbeat.

 

[Warfang]

I drive a 97 so I don't even have ABS but I would suggest all the non believers in the electronic nannies take a ride in a GT-R at speed. I can only imagine how great of a car my Viper would be with all those computers in it. In the end all the computers in the car make for a much better performing car. I remember when I wanted a carb and a distributor on any car I owned. I thought injection was the end of the hot rodding world. I would pay to have that stuff put in my GTS if I could in a heartbeat.

Why even drive a car? You can program a computer to just do it all then. You CAN buy traction control for your Viper... you DO know it exists, right? What is stopping you? Better yet, just trade your Viper in for a GT-R... I just don't understand this line of reasoning.

 

[Warfang]

Some of us rather would rather perfect our driving than let computers do it for us.

 

[eucharistos]

Why even drive a car? You can program a computer to just do it all then. You CAN buy traction control for your Viper... you DO know it exists, right? What is stopping you? Better yet, just trade your Viper in for a GT-R... I just don't understand this line of reasoning.

it is the participation trophy mentality



being good at it is not the issue for some peep now, just being on the team is enough - thus 12 soccer trophies for 12 years in little league soccer - no score keeping, everybody plays....




nanny techers, before you flame me - i do understand enjoying the technology, i enjoy when technology works well - e.g., regenerative braking on a hybrid - but you buy one of those and enjoy - e.g., GT-R, not put them on cars meant for the NFL


pls continue.....

 

[korina]

Having advanced electronics in your car doesn't make you any less of a driver. It might make a less talented driver faster but it only helps the car perform in most cases. Don't be intimidated. The stuff will make you faster. The computers don't drive for you. I won't buy a GT-R but it isn't because of the computers. I think the car just flat out performs better with the systems on most any setting.

 

[Warfang]

Having advanced electronics in your car doesn't make you any less of a driver. It might make a less talented driver faster but it only helps the car perform in most cases. Don't be intimidated. The stuff will make you faster. The computers don't drive for you. I won't buy a GT-R but it isn't because of the computers. I think the car just flat out performs better with the systems on most any setting.

is that before or after the launch controls shreds your transmission and voids your warranty?

So you haven't answered why you haven't installed racelogix tc in your own car?

 

[eucharistos]

I have plenty of control... so says the many skip barber certificates hanging on my wall (kidding).

ok, now i understand


the impersonal nature of the internet once again clouds the intended inflection, my comment was a cheap shot at humor directed at those in favor of nannies on a viper

 

[Warfang]

ok, now i understand


the impersonal nature of the internet once again clouds the intended inflection, my comment was a cheap shot at humor directed at those in favor of nannies on a viper

I may be laughing AT you occasionally, but never doubt that I am always laughing WITH you.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Why is it that Nancy options (a/c, stereo, ps, pb, abs, pw, pdl, etc) on the Viper are ok but nanny options (esc, tc, and launch control) are not?

Are you serious? You can't tell the difference between A/C, etc and TC?

Have you ever tracked your car, or any car for that matter? And I'm talking about a real track like Sebring, Daytona, Road Atlanta, not some 1/4 run down a dragstrip.

Please buy a Vett or Ferrari or Porsche. Those are all three great cars and none of us will think the less of you.

 

[Warfang]

Are you serious? You can't tell the difference between A/C, etc and TC?

Have you ever tracked your car, or any car for that matter? And I'm talking about a real track like Sebring, Daytona, Road Atlanta, not some 1/4 run down a dragstrip.

Please buy a Vett or Ferrari or Porsche. Those are all three great cars and none of us will think the less of you.

welll... some of us might

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

welll... some of us might

Not really, considering they might as well be driving a nanny car anyway. I was trying to be diplomatic.