Next-Gen Dodge Viper could get Ferrari-derived V10

[HollywoodGTS]

REPORT: Next-Gen Dodge Viper could get Ferrari-derived V10 — Autoblog


Way back in 1987, Chrysler bought up a troubled Lamborghini, and within two years put it to work developing a V10 engine program that would eventually give birth to both the Dodge Viper and the Lamborghini Gallardo – two of the first ten-cylinder engines on the modern market. Two decades later, the tables have turned: instead of buying up struggling Italian automakers, it's Chrysler that's troubled and the Italians are coming to the rescue. And now reports suggest that the replacement for the Viper's V10 could be derived from Ferrari's next-generation engine program.

Chrysler's original plan was to sell of the Viper business, but since no serious offers came through, Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne is reportedly keen on taking advantage of the sportscar's standing as the company's halo vehicle. But rather than have Chrysler shoulder the entire burden of developing the next-generation Viper, the engine program could be derived from the same modular powerplant that will propel upcoming Ferraris and Maseratis.

Ferrari has essentially had four engine designs in its history: the Colombo design was in use from the company's beginnings all the way through the '90s. The Lampredi engine was used on a handful of vehicles in the 50's before being phased out. The Dino engine spawned V6, V8 and V12 versions and was in use until just a few years ago, while the current Ferrari/Maserati engine powers everything in the both companies' current ranges as well as the Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione. Its 90-degree replacement will likewise offer variable configurations: a flat-plane crank V8 for Ferrari, a cross-plane crank for Maserati and a pushrod V10 for the Viper.

 

[Viper #53]

Highly doubtful. Ferrari designed engines are extremely complex, reguire maintenance at frequent intervals (timing belt replacement occurs at 20K miles and typically cost $5-7K. Ask my wife how I know...)and really don't match the persona of the Viper. Viper is about back to basics, simple horesepower and torque via cubic inches. There is a reason why Ferraris and lambos have very little mileage. Cost of mainenance and the need for a highly qualified technician. You can't scale service on a US wide basis needed. I've had three Ferraris, two Aston Martin and one 1992 Dodge Viper. Nothing, absolutely nothing (except rattline pipes) has gone wrong with my Viper in the last 16 years. In all honesty, my Astons and Ferraris have been pretty reliable, but at a cost. It really does take $5K per year to maintain them. The oil change on my DB9 costs $750. Yup, they have to remove the entire underpan to get to the filter! Not kidding!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

No thanks. The big cube Dodge V10 is the single most defining part of Viper. Without it it is no longer Viper.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Nope, not going to happen my freind.

 

[Motivated]

I highly doubt it will happen as well as ferrari is to "prestigious" of a brand to share motors with a "merican" company as far their concerned. Ferrari is very protective of their image and the viper and prancing pony images just dont mesh.

Anything is ultamatly possible in the end though, the good ol' american v10 is Lamborghini derived.

 

[texas_venom]

Do you realy think Obama is going to allow the Viper to live on??? LOL. We will be lucky to see a V8 the way things are going. And any speculation about the next gen Viper is just that... speculation. Why change the engine when the car already dominates??? We are witnessing the end of the high performance car in this country. Buy the Viper now while out can. It won't be there in a couple of years.

 

[Simms]

No thanks. The big cube Dodge V10 is the single most defining part of Viper. Without it it is no longer Viper.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Do you realy think Obama is going to allow the Viper to live on??? LOL. We will be lucky to see a V8 the way things are going. And any speculation about the next gen Viper is just that... speculation. Why change the engine when the car already dominates??? We are witnessing the end of the high performance car in this country. Buy the Viper now while out can. It won't be there in a couple of years.

LOL, he is short lived the VIPER will not be!

 

[georgethedog]

Do you realy think Obama is going to allow the Viper to live on??? LOL. We will be lucky to see a V8 the way things are going. And any speculation about the next gen Viper is just that... speculation. Why change the engine when the car already dominates??? We are witnessing the end of the high performance car in this country. Buy the Viper now while out can. It won't be there in a couple of years.

Don't be too paranoid, man. I'm not an liberal by any stretch, but you must listen to Rush and Sean Hannity way too much. Things are already shifting back in this country. His approval rating is way down and will go lower and along with that will his power to make changes. Don't worry... If the Viper dies on the vine it will be for other reasons IMO.

 

[1BADGTS]

If there is a Gen 5 Viper the R&D is already done (years ago).Lead time on projects like this is over 4 years

 

[Sittingbull101]

Highly doubtful. Ferrari designed engines are extremely complex, reguire maintenance at frequent intervals (timing belt replacement occurs at 20K miles and typically cost $5-7K. Ask my wife how I know...)and really don't match the persona of the Viper. Viper is about back to basics, simple horesepower and torque via cubic inches. There is a reason why Ferraris and lambos have very little mileage. Cost of mainenance and the need for a highly qualified technician. You can't scale service on a US wide basis needed. I've had three Ferraris, two Aston Martin and one 1992 Dodge Viper. Nothing, absolutely nothing (except rattline pipes) has gone wrong with my Viper in the last 16 years. In all honesty, my Astons and Ferraris have been pretty reliable, but at a cost. It really does take $5K per year to maintain them. The oil change on my DB9 costs $750. Yup, they have to remove the entire underpan to get to the filter! Not kidding!

Highly doubtful indeed. The philosophies behind the engine designs differ radically. A Ferrari engine is meant to have power at high rpm, an American engine has power kicking in earlier. According to David Carney's Dodge Viper, Lamborghini's engineers had limited input in the V10 design precisely because of those differences. Of course that may be a bit of sycophantic exaggeration, given the overall gushing nature of of the book, which at times looks like it has been written by a PR shill from Dodge - I like this book though.

 

[RTTTTed]

The Viper has lived through all the news that it's going to die, going to quit and still it's not just continueing but it's become the world's fastest road car and it's been announced that Viper production will be continued through the certification years. What may kill the Viper is Government costs for emmission's testing and certification. The Government's side impact certification killed the Ford GT and almost killed off the Saleen S7.

I would think that although ALL Governments do the "yapping" about green and pollution, small cars etc. ... I don't picture Obama, England's PM, canada's PM or any other Goverment Top official cruising around in a Kia or Prius.

If Obama doesn't stick out his chest with pride everytime someone says "Viper is the fastest road car in the world", then he doesn't deserve to be President. I imagine the leader of Italy makes up excuses for Lamborghini and Ferrari being so far downt he list of FAST cars all the time.

Maybe there's people that think a 300hp Genesis is a warning that if Dodge and GM put down their Big Boys Toys then Ford will have trouble being the only North American supercar? ... perhaps the GTR would be able to do as it's advertising said back when they brought out the 550hp "pretender"? I'm a North American and whenever someone tells me that Viper will be stopped, I ask them if they're gonna buy a 600hp supercar from Honda next? Ferraris and Lambos should really worry about those Japanese cars as the GTR and R8 aren't very far behind them. Since they're very happy being behind the Dodge Viper, they shouldn't be too upset when a $150,000 Nissan spanks them too?

I could see a Ferrari engine in a Viper if they (as stated) used a pushrod engine to save that $1.00 per mile for camdrive belts, but I'd really hate to see the Viper slow down with a Ferrari engine in it, and be expected to pay extra for a lousier engine.

Ted

 

[HollywoodGTS]

I was thinking, that this is more likely. LOL!

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Sittingbull101]

"a lousier engine"
Yeah, those ******** Italian engineers, they don't know anything about engines:
As of 2008[update], the team's records include 15 World Drivers Championship titles (1952, 1953, 1956, 1958, 1961, 1964, 1975, 1977, 1979, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2007) 16 World Constructors Championship titles 1961, 1964, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1982, 1983, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2007 and 2008, 209 Grand Prix victories, 4925.27 points, 622 podium finishes, 203 pole positions, and 218 fastest laps in 776 Grands Prix contested.
You play stoopid, right?

 

[PacificSEASnake]

Snakes frighten horses.

 

[1BADGTS]

"a lousier engine"
Yeah, those ******** Italian engineers, they don't know anything about engines:
As of 2008[update], the team's records include 15 World Drivers Championship titles (1952, 1953, 1956, 1958, 1961, 1964, 1975, 1977, 1979, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2007) 16 World Constructors Championship titles 1961, 1964, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1982, 1983, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2007 and 2008, 209 Grand Prix victories, 4925.27 points, 622 podium finishes, 203 pole positions, and 218 fastest laps in 776 Grands Prix contested.
You play stoopid, right?

Exactly not to mention they only make 2 or so horsepower NA per cubic inch on pump gas pass all emissions ect.

 

[1BADGTS]

Ps Guys lets also remember one other thing Ferrari not Dodge is now in charge of whatever they decide to do here .(Beggars cant be choosers).Like i posted earlyier i believe the R&D was done years ago on the Gen 5 (development timeline dictates that )but if Ferrari decides to make the next Gen Viper a station wagon with a 3 liter 4 cyl in it what can we do.

 

[Boxer12]

My thoughts exactly.

Ummm, you guys know that Lambo designed the Viper V10, right? (read the first sentence of the news release again please). Also, the new V10 is a totally different motor than the orig anyway, so no use in holding out for a carb version...LOL. As for complexity, the fuel system and high tune is the main issue here, moreso than the mechanicals. The current Viper motor is not tunable by anyone but the factory (one option, Mopar PCM), which is even less tunable than a Ferrari (which can be tuned with a computer by any dealer). Finally, the expensive timing belt service is all about cars that sit around, and is easily remedied with a chain drive system like Lambo uses if you don't mind the added weight. I would buy a Viper ACR with a Ferrari V12 anyday (assuming its around $100-150k)...when can I place my order?

PS-Anyone hung up on Gen II technology, call me for today's price on my GTS (only 17k miles, and very tunable)!

 

[RTTTTed]

I did notice that when the Ferraris were competing with the Viper GTS during 96, 97 and 98 (before the Viper got 40% intake restrictors and extsra weight) when Viper won all the GrandPrixs.

I do notice that the Ferraris were ok once the Vipers were cut to half power.

I suppose I might be wrong and the Viper's superior chassis was what kicked the Ferrari's ass? (just kidding).

Hey, if you've got specs handy ... did Ferrari ever in history win with every car entered? You know, Like Viper did when they entered all those Grand Prix races? 1st to 7th, etc.

I am amazed that that the Woodhouse cars and Tommy Archer win so often now. They're still required to be the heaviest cars on the track and still forced to run restrictor plates. I wonder how the Ferraris would do if they had to run a 40% intake restrictor plate??? Maybe they'd be faster if they had to race at a Viper weight? LOL

Ted

Ted

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Ummm, you guys know that Lambo designed the Viper V10, right?

I believe it was the grail keeper that corrected that common misconception (if it wasn't the grail keeper then my apologies). It's in the Members Only section.

Anyway, the story is Dodge solicited Lambo for it's aluminum casting skills so Dodge could cast their V10 truck engine in aluminum to be used in the Viper. Lambo's only real V10 design contribution was the intake manifold. And if I remember correctly even that was either scrapped or highly modified from what Lambo originally delivered.

No matter. Lambo makes a terrific car and Ferrari does too. But a sports car is defined by it's motor first and foremost and if I wanted a Ferrari I would have bought one.

 

[Sittingbull101]

Tedted, what are smoking?

 

[1BADGTS]

Tedted, what are smoking?

Lol for once its not me asking that question

 

[1BADGTS]

I believe it was the grail keeper that corrected that common misconception (if it wasn't the grail keeper then my apologies). It's in the Members Only section.

Anyway, the story is Dodge solicited Lambo for it's aluminum casting skills so Dodge could cast their V10 truck engine in aluminum to be used in the Viper. Lambo's only real V10 design contribution was the intake manifold. And if I remember correctly even that was either scrapped or highly modified from what Lambo originally delivered.

No matter. Lambo makes a terrific car and Ferrari does too. But a sports car is defined by it's motor first and foremost and if I wanted a Ferrari I would have bought one.

The problem is we no longer have a choice in the matter .Whether we like it or not Ferraris interpetation of where the Viper is headed may be 180 degrees from Dodges origional conception of what USED to be the Viper.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Too many parts in Italian engines.

Viper's niche is a large displacement, torque rich, low maintenance engine where the horsepower flows out in massive amounts, over a broad powerband.

They are at home both on the strip and road courses.

They are priced where a business person can afford them, and are a bit intimidating to Women.

 

[1BADGTS]

Too many parts in Italian engines.

Viper's niche is a large displacement, torque rich, low maintenance engine where the horsepower flows out in massive amounts, over a broad powerband.

They are at home both on the strip and road courses.

They are priced where a business person can afford them, and are a bit intimidating to Women.

Paul i realize what your saying (personally i hope it stays that way )but the past niche may not be what Ferarri has IN STORE FOR THE NEXT Gen (provided thetre is one )

 

[RTTTTed]

Tedted, what are smoking?

Actually I quit cigs and now only smoke with my Dodges, lol.

I guess I should have explained better about the motor, but I like to brag about all the wins that Dodge got before they got screwed. I like to add that it was the same story at NASCAR when the "wings" got banned for being too fast, or the Hemi got restricted to a 340cfm carb instead of being allowed to race with the two 625 and 750carbs they came stock with. I don't think any other company in the aurotmotive industry got banned from racing for being too fast.

I honestly think that 13mpg factory gas mileage and more than $1 per mile for SOME of the maintenance is the biggest joke in the world. My 800+hp OLD Viper gets 20mpg/us and costs nothing for cambelts etc. No $750 oil changes as written for a DB9. No $17,000 tune-ups every 15,000 miles. Haveing to take my car in for a week long tuneup every few months would ruin my summer. I've put 19,000mi on my Viper during the last 2 summers. Imagine if the tuneup came due while I was driving to Detroit and back with the 7 other Vipers? Guess they're not made for driving, eh?

You can like them if you want, but you haven't explained what's good about them other than they're faster than a 40% intake restricted Viper.

I prefer to think they make no sense because they require so much maintenance. I hesitate to think of the cost if they broke down??? Say, order a U joint while on a trip in Mexico? Probably easier to drive a tow truck?

If they were worth the half million or more then the Enzo wouldn't have burned up along the side of the highway in Kelowna earlier this year.

I imagine it's possible that a Viper burned to the ground, but I haven't seen one yet.

Ted

 

[RTTTTed]

Paul i realize what your saying (personally i hope it stays that way )but the past niche may not be what Ferarri has IN STORE FOR THE NEXT Gen (provided thetre is one )

So are you trying to say that Ferrari owns part of Dodge instead of Fiat? Fiat also owns a chunk of Ferrari is what I read.

Fiat CEO loves the Viper is what is reported. Guess he likes owning part of the "World's Fastest Road Car" since Maserati supposedly ran a "faster than Ferrari" 7:25 around the ring and there are a few companies that are building more than a Million dollar car in an attempt to beat the Viper ACR's ring time?

He should be proud.

ted

 

[ViperGTS]

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[1BADGTS]

So are you trying to say that Ferrari owns part of Dodge instead of Fiat? Fiat also owns a chunk of Ferrari is what I read.

Fiat CEO loves the Viper is what is reported. Guess he likes owning part of the "World's Fastest Road Car" since Maserati supposedly ran a "faster than Ferrari" 7:25 around the ring and there are a few companies that are building more than a Million dollar car in an attempt to beat the Viper ACR's ring time?

He should be proud.

ted

What iam saying is because no one was buying Dodges the company went bankrupt(no sales company ever goes bankrupt from selling too many of anything ) and was aquired by a foreign auto maker.That foreign auto maker can do whatever the hell they want with the Viper (what the choose to do MAY NOT have anything to do with what the OLD DODGE ENVISIONED the Viper to me )The 90s are gone

 

[1BADGTS]

What iam saying is because no one was buying Dodges the company went bankrupt(no sales company ever goes bankrupt from selling too many of anything ) and was aquired by a foreign auto maker.That foreign auto maker can do whatever the hell they want with the Viper (what the choose to do MAY NOT have anything to do with what the OLD DODGE ENVISIONED the Viper to me )The 90s are gone

Ps because they are both high perf platforms Fiat may give Viper to Ferarri (Ferarri MAY follow the Viper tradition =NOBODY KNOWS )point being they are the bosses now not Dodge.If the Vipers history is respected thats great it may not be though NOBODY KNOWS.