Guys i am starting to look for a Winter project since i cannot really alter my 08 i am thinking of picking up an 03- 04 SRT and do a built blower Paxton project (engine fuel system ect )I run things hard (my built 96 was often used by Muscle Mustang and Fast Ford as a test car -Evan Smith aint exactly easy on things)Years ago i had a Carroll Supercharged Corvette that was blown up more than it was running.Because of the intended use -HEAT ISSUES ect my engine builder (who i have used for years )is pushing my towards twin turbos.If a blower car is built and tuned properly can i turn it over to the mag guys to test say at Pocono on a 90 degree day without catostrophic engine failure.
Question for the Supercharging experts
- Thread starter 1BADGTS
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mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
Most people will not like what I have to say about this either but since I am on a roll from the Challenger forums I will.
I love power as much or MORE than the next guy and believe you can never have enough. What I also believe though is that you can spend any amount you want to do a bullet proof motor and it will still let go at some time before a stock one does. To me this is stated best as I have heard in the past as you are building a powerful bomb and the more powerful it is the shorter the fuse gets. This is not fiction either just observe any race car, it happens all the time and if not often it is because they are spending tons of money rebuilding it before it has.
End of rant... wheres those pain pills?
I love power as much or MORE than the next guy and believe you can never have enough. What I also believe though is that you can spend any amount you want to do a bullet proof motor and it will still let go at some time before a stock one does. To me this is stated best as I have heard in the past as you are building a powerful bomb and the more powerful it is the shorter the fuse gets. This is not fiction either just observe any race car, it happens all the time and if not often it is because they are spending tons of money rebuilding it before it has.
End of rant... wheres those pain pills?
AFL in NJ
Enthusiast
Dear 1BADGTS,
Here's a few cars to choose from that would give you a bit of a Winter project:
X2 Builders - wrecked dodge vipers for sale
(Personally I'd like to see that Snakeskin Green one with black stripes reborn into a twin-turbo MONSTER!)
Regards,
Aaron
Here's a few cars to choose from that would give you a bit of a Winter project:
X2 Builders - wrecked dodge vipers for sale
(Personally I'd like to see that Snakeskin Green one with black stripes reborn into a twin-turbo MONSTER!)
Regards,
Aaron
I really dont want to go wrecked (more like a nice 03 vert- low miles) I am in NJ.My engine builder is adament for my intendent useage that iam better with the turbos .I love the simplicity of the superchargers.I want to be around 825 to the tire.
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
Huh???
Certainly not monetarily. Certainly not thermodynamically. In what way is it free?
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
dragon rider
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It is a fine line between power and reliability. My experience with "bullet proof" boosted smaller displacement motors always ended the same way. BROKEN A boosted 650 rwhp gen III seems to maintain good driveability and reliability. Big hp#'s = Big Money= big headaches and lots of down time. Most 1000hp cars spend more time with the hoods up getting worked on than being driven.
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
That's kinda my take, but you have to remember there are a lot of Viper guys out there that this is a lifestyle and hobby for. These things equate to passion rather than always reliable transportation.
That's why I leave somethings open ended, too each his own when it comes to a passion.
That's why I leave somethings open ended, too each his own when it comes to a passion.
Thats exactly what i thought ,but my engine builder says NO WAY .Basically hes claiming that power level for power level both being tuned properly of course the turbo will be a ton more reliable -heat issues part wear ect.(he just did a viper twin turbo truck-small boost level made 900 to the tire ).Anybody done both that can advise would be helpful.
chimazo
Enthusiast
I don't understand where your builder is coming from by saying that turbos would have less heat issues?? Turbos themselves produce a ton of heat, along with the accompanying plumbing, which makes an already hot underhood environment only worse. I think anyone would agree that the complexity of a supercharger is less, and the boost is more easily controlled since a specific pulley will produce "x" amount of boost (yes, this is a simplification).
You mention your guy did an SRT-10 truck TT, but those have a TON of room underhood, along with a huge frontal area/opening to keep things cool. A Viper does not. Not knocking TT's on a Viper, just confused about your tuner's perspective vs superchargers.
You mention your guy did an SRT-10 truck TT, but those have a TON of room underhood, along with a huge frontal area/opening to keep things cool. A Viper does not. Not knocking TT's on a Viper, just confused about your tuner's perspective vs superchargers.
This is exactly what i am trying to find out myself.
SnakeEye
Viper Owner
Why can't you alter your '08? Still running stock headers, gears, etc?
If you go with an '03 - '06 you should be able to hit 675rwhp 600rwtq reliably without the need for an engine rebuild. Have fun...
AFL in NJ
Enthusiast
I've recently seen some twin turbo installations where the turbos are in the rear of the car somewhere underneath.....I wonder if that may be an option your builder may be intrigued by.
Regards,
Aaron
Regards,
Aaron
My old gts on engine alone made close to 600 to the tire.This time around iam looking to be around 825 plus to the tire
Definately would put them underneath(i think thats what he is referring to as heat -besides the blower heat soak problems ect )
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
Hi guys,
I have seen the rear turbo set ups also and although they will work and the actual plumbing is easier they are notorious for ridiculous LAAAAAAG from the lengths of tubing. The up side of the tubing is that it will act as a inter-cooler for the air charge being down in the air flow.
I have seen the rear turbo set ups also and although they will work and the actual plumbing is easier they are notorious for ridiculous LAAAAAAG from the lengths of tubing. The up side of the tubing is that it will act as a inter-cooler for the air charge being down in the air flow.
Reliability wise which is better say in an almost roadrace type application
PS when i say roadrace type application alot of times in the past i have turned one of my Vipers over to Evan Smith at Muscle Mustang and Fast Ford (the very guy John Coletti brought in to test Ford GT prototypes ).Evan is beyond ******* cars,great driver but if a power adder application is not 100% correct for the intended usage he will find out fast
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
If both systems are equally tuned and "safe" the turbos will probably make more power because it is costing no power to produce the same pounds of boost netting you less actual stress on the internals. Remember if you are using up 50-75hp to drive the blower then there is actually MORE stress on the S/C car to produce the same RWHP number. Make sense?
On another note I'm still a firm believer, as is Paxton that the word on the stock block and "liners" is a reliable engine equals 8 pounds of boost or less. Sure you can build the rest as bullet proof as you want with custom forged blower pistons and 2000hp rods but that does NOTHING to make the block and liners more reliable. I stated in another thread that most things can be done but as it gets bigger the life of it gets shorter there is not a reasonable $$$ way around this just ask any top shelf drag racer.
As always this is just my opinion based on gathering of info over the years,
Mark
On another note I'm still a firm believer, as is Paxton that the word on the stock block and "liners" is a reliable engine equals 8 pounds of boost or less. Sure you can build the rest as bullet proof as you want with custom forged blower pistons and 2000hp rods but that does NOTHING to make the block and liners more reliable. I stated in another thread that most things can be done but as it gets bigger the life of it gets shorter there is not a reasonable $$$ way around this just ask any top shelf drag racer.
As always this is just my opinion based on gathering of info over the years,
Mark
Guys help me here -if the engine is built and tuned properly at 800 rear wheel horsepower can i turn the blower car over to the mag guys on a 95degree day (like i did with my nat asperated gts )without it putting holes in pistons.A typical mag test may include hot lapping ,a top speed test where the driver actually is going 50mph plus at the start of the quarter mile -over 180 plus at the end (alot of redline pulling in top gears ect )
Basically what my engine guy is telling me is that everyones defination of running a car hard is different .Most guys running 800 to the tire are drag racing them now and then (making sure the engine is nicely cooled down between runs ect ).They are not handing the keys over to Evan Smith for one of his testsI am trying to find this out now so i can adjust my plans accordingly.
