Can 5-30 oil make it run HOT?

red98GTS

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Typically, changing to a different weight oil does not make a car "run hot". First thing to look at would be bottle in front fascia for proper level. Then, burp cooling system anyway. Easy...you can do it yourself. pete the ex glass guy & hot rodder......(burp!..excuse me!)
 

JonB

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElDiablo Viper:
last time I had an oil change and they put 5-30. Now the car runs at 225 when I'm above 4K RPM. Is this normal? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


What is NOT normal is to put 5w oil in unless for winter storage.

But causing you to run hot? NOPE. As long as oil is full.
 

racetech

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I assume you didn't change brands or oil types--all cars can benefit from quality true-synthetic oils and they are listed as a requirement for the Viper for that reason.

Assuming you stayed with the same quality brand and if you have checked the other suggestions posted here above mine, I'd be very surprised if the oil had any connection with the temp increase. Maybe it would help to share a little info about motor oils and viscosity ratings.

People often misunderstand "multi-viscosity" oils. They believe that the oil somehow gets thicker as it warms up--that's not true. All oils thin with temperature increase--multi-viscosity oils just don't thin out as rapidly.

The "W" in a multi-viscosity oil stands for "Winter" (not weight). The number preceding the "W" is the tested viscosity ("thickness") at 0°F. A 5W oil exhibits the same viscosity as a straight 5 weight oil at 0°F. They would pour from the can at exactly the same rate.

The second number is the tested viscosity at 210°F. A 5W-30 oil exhibits the same viscosity at that temperature as a straight 30 weight oil. The mulit-vis oil still got thinner as it heated, just not nearly as thin as a straight 5 weight oil would. And...it never gets any thicker at 0°F than straight 5 weight--so you get the best of both worlds.

Years ago, 10W-40 was thought to be the hot ticket for cars. It was later learned that the formulation required to get that big of a spread (30 points) in the viscosity index often led to carbon buildup around & behind the piston rings. The auto makers were quick to react by recommending 10w-30 and 5W-30 (for colder climates) oils. GM used to say in their owners manuals that "use of 10W-40 motor oil can lead to engine damage that will not be covered under warranty"...they were referring to carbon buildup and stuck rings (stuck rings can't seal properly).

Another thing that changed was the type of oil used in racing applications. I'm old enough to remember when we'd use a really thick 50 weight racing motor oil. It was later learned that a lot of horsepower was lost pushing that goo through the oil galleries & parts.

Now, all the racers I know run true synthetics in their cars...and you wouldn't believe how thin they are. Racing oils are often rated now in a more sensitive scale called "centistokes" because most would test right around zero weight. This stuff is THIN! It's thought that this works well because thin oils reduce parasitic losses. The thinner oils reduce viscous drag and may also just be "slipperier". They have additional benefits of resistance to thermal breakdown.

The downside of using such a thin oil is that the oil pump must have increased volume to be able to maintain pressure and the oil return system and pan need a lot of work to help control the increased crankcase windage. Racers also often switch to roller cam bearings. These seal off the oil holes and work off splash from the crank. Sealing off flow to the cam bearings saves about 1 gallon per minute of flow through the engine.

So...the thinner oil (I assume you had 10W-30 in there before) could in theory increase the flow rate through the engine and actually cool it better--but remember, once the temperature reaches 210°F (oil temp, not coolant temp--and it will most certainly get there really fast), the oil you had in there before has the same flow rate as the one you have now. The 5W just means it'll flow better at cold startup.

Bottom line--it's almost a certainty that something else is causing the increased heat. Is the electric fan still working? Have the days just been hotter? There unfortuately are a zillion things that can cause an engine to run hotter, but I'll be surprised if the oil change has anything directly to do with it. Hope this helps!
 

ElDiablo Viper

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last time I had an oil change and they put 5-30. Now the car runs at 225 when I'm above 4K RPM. Is this normal?
 

ElDiablo Viper

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Thanks guys for all great posts. I took the car to the dealer and changed the oil back to 10-30. As it turns out my gauge in the car reads 8 deg. Higher that it really is. So when I'm driving and the temp is at 200 the the true reading is 192 which is not bad. The most that I hit was reading 225 while I was on the 3rd gear and reving at 4K or more for a couple of miles. I'm going to Mid-Ohio and will watch the temp.

Is there a way to install Oil temp gauge? Does anybody have it?
 

Tom F&L GoR

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&gt;all cars can benefit from quality true-synthetic oils and they are listed as a requirement for the Viper for that reason.

There are many ways to formulate high quality oils, using a synthetic base oil is only one way. And the Viper requirement is a technical performance spec, not a chemical spec.

&gt;The number preceding the "W" is the tested viscosity ("thickness") at 0°F. A 5W oil exhibits the same viscosity as a straight 5 weight oil at 0°F. They would pour from the can at exactly the same rate.

No, the number preceeding the "W" indicates that it meets ASTM D5239 Cranking Viscosity and ASTM D4684 Pumping viscosity limits at designated temperatures. For a 5W, it must meet D5239 at -30C and D4684 at -35C. Neither have a strong correlation to the pour point.

&gt; The second number is the tested viscosity at 210°F.

Actually, it's 212F or 100C.

&gt;the formulation required to get that big of a spread (30 points) in the viscosity index often led to carbon buildup around & behind the piston rings

Like everything else, sometimes this was true, but more often not. Many viscosity index improvers had a dispersant "credit" so along with providing the oil thickening, they helped keep the engine clean, including ring lands.

&gt;auto makers were quick to react by recommending 10w-30 and 5W-30 (for colder climates) oils

OEM recommendations for lower viscosities are also driven by fuel economy, as they recommend 5W30 year round for most engines. It's tough to untangle that from any other incentive.

&gt;all the racers I know run true synthetics in their cars

I blend the oil for a NASCAR team. It's not a synthetic. But it is thinner than most folks think it might be.

&gt;The 5W just means it'll flow better at cold startup.

True, a 5W-30, 10W-30, or 30 will all behave similarly at fully warmed up temperatures, yet have much different low temperature characteristics. For your street car, the lower number relates to how easy the engine is to start and begin pumping oil. Although the system wasn't designed to do so, the W number sort of predicts the power requirement for the oil pump to push the fluid around.
 

Tom F&L GoR

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Your question about the "W" is a good one, and I don't know for sure. It's like the "S" in API SJ and the "C" in API CH-4 engine oil performance categories. Everyone thinks the "S" means "spark" and the "C" means "compression" for gas and diesel engine oils. But actually the "S" came from "service" meaning service station, because that's where gasoline engine passenger cars used to go for an oil change. The "C" meant "commercial" because trucks were diesels and would go to a fleet or business facility for an oil change. Fun history stuff.

The sponsored race team started with off-the-shelf product because of the advertising campaign - you can buy what the team races with. This was up until only a few years ago, which proved that race oils didn't automatically have to be exceptionally special to run well.

Probably because of smart folks like you, it grew into a performance disadvantage, so special formulations were developed for them. Being conservative, we didn't make huge step changes, and we've developed an oil that has the low friction, good antiwear, and proper viscosity requirements needed for the valvetrain parts. Not knowing all the engine rules, I assume that cam lift rates with the required small diameter lifters are probably the area that keeps builders up at night; the good cam profiles are also the ones that come closest to hitting the edge of the lifter rather than coming up underneath it. And to provide low friction with good antiwear is an additive balancing game - both additive types compete for metal surfaces, but too much of one means the other won't be around to do it's job.

As for viscosity, a lot depends on cooling the oil and quantity of oil. The car has a large oil reserve, and they can pretty much control the oil temperature to whatever they want. They like small holes in the front air dam for aerodynamics, so running a thick oil with less cooling (a little hot) is not bad thing. Running a thinner oil a little cool is the same thing as far as the engine is concerned -it sees both as the same viscosity. Nothing we've done so far is improved by using a synthetic over a good quality mineral oil. Additives provide anti-wear, reduce friction, oxidation control... there's no critical feature that is further enhanced with the use of a synthetic. Sure we use a really good quality mineral oil because we don't want to develop an oil that isn't robust overall, but from what we've learned engines need, it's the additive formulation that's critical.

Drag oils are likely synthetic because they are so very thin. A mineral oil at that low visocity would tend to be too volatile.

Enough hints - after this, you're on your own!
 

racetech

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom, F&L GoR:
...there's no critical feature that is further enhanced with the use of a synthetic. Sure we use a really good quality mineral oil because we don't want to develop an oil that isn't robust overall, but from what we've learned engines need, it's the additive formulation that's critical.

Drag oils are likely synthetic because they are so very thin. A mineral oil at that low visocity would tend to be too volatile.

Enough hints - after this, you're on your own!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I now owe you a hint...

The smart stock car racers put their time & energy where it counts...aerodynamics. They can make gains more easily & quickly there. So...the hp technologies developed in drag racing are always a few years ahead of the stock car guys. This isn't a slam against stock car racers, just a fact born of the different focus required to be competitive within the sport.

A really bright guy once told me the definition of a secret--"It's something you tell to one person at a time". I'd like to make you a friendly wager. I'm betting that in 3-5 years, you'll find something rather--surprising in the oil pans of most all NASCAR teams...and in that environment, the thinner syn's will make more hp. I could be wrong...and...I better leave it at this!
 

racetech

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom, F&L GoR:
&gt;No, the number preceeding the "W" indicates that it meets ASTM D5239 Cranking Viscosity and ASTM D4684 Pumping viscosity limits at designated temperatures. For a 5W, it must meet D5239 at -30C and D4684 at -35C. Neither have a strong correlation to the pour point.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tom, thanks...engine lubricants are obviously your area and I really appreciate the info! I'm still wondering if my understanding of the use of the letter "W" was correct--that it was at least orignially selected to reflect "winter" oil performance. Most people I run into think the "W" stands for "weight" and I'm sure that's not true. LOL...I realize we may be boring the folks by splitting hairs, but I always like to make sure I've got things right!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
&gt; The second number is the tested viscosity at 210°F.

Actually, it's 212F or 100C.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahh...moment of "duh" here *lol*...yes, it was 212°F (bp of water at standard baro).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>

&gt;all the racers I know run true synthetics in their cars

I blend the oil for a NASCAR team. It's not a synthetic. But it is thinner than most folks think it might be.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You really have my interest here. The folks I work with also do projects for a couple of the biggest names in Winston Cup (I'm not allowed to say who)...and they all get synthetics. The drag cars get syn's that were actually developed for the aircraft industry. Please send me a private message with more info as to why you go with the non-syn's...thanks!
 

Ron

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<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Interesting point on the 15W-50.

My understanding is that under very hard cornering the potential exists for oil pickup starvation resulting in at least one bearing running dry momentarily. From what you're saying, a 15W-50 has more residual lubricating capability than a 10W-30. I had thought that the oil additives were what determined the residual lubrication qualities and if so I don't understand why they'd differ between a 10W-30 and 15W-50.

Tom, could you assist on this?

Thanks!</FONT f>
 
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