Help with used 02 GTS

[DocAdam]

I've been lurking and reading for a while, but I am starting to get pretty serious about buying a viper.

I will be looking at a 2002 Charcoal GTS tomorrow and wanted to get some opinions. It is relatively high mileage for an 02 (36,000 miles!!!), so that could mean a few things. It could mean it was used as a daily driver for long highway commutes that were very gentle on the engine, or it could mean that the original owner did endurance races. I don't know.

Here is the internet add, as I said I will be looking at it this weekend (if I can finish my chores and my wife lets me out of the house).

http://used-cars.autos.yahoo.com/usedcars/detail/index.html?cid=automobiles-186337907&print=y

If it looks good, should I at least do a leakdown test? What would a good price be? Are the prices on ebay representative of the viper community?


I haven't driven one yet, but have been really looking forward to it. Right now I have a 2004 nissan 350Z roadster with a stillen positive displacement blower. I am looking for more performance and something that will stand out a little more. There are just too many Z's out there.

Thanks

Adam

 

[Wifey's Viper]

Price wise others probably could be more helpful but for a Graphite car in good condition with those miles the price is right, even a tad low. Check the side sills for yellowing, under the front fascia for scrapes and the side bolsters. I would have a qualified mechanic take a look as well unless you feel comfortable doing it.

P.S. It looks like it might already have the Corsa exhaust. Smooth tubes have been done which is nice.

 

[houstonT]

I would definately do a compression and leakdown test. Acceptable compression numbers are 140-150 and acceptable leakdown numbers are 6-12% (in that range). Also, in addition to what wifey's said, make sure you drive the car to make sure everything is in working condition. Depending on the in-service date, you might be able to get some stuff warrantied still....
Peter

 

[DocAdam]

Thanks,

I guess my concern is that 36K miles is kind of high. I noticed the smooth tubes, but couldn't tell about the exhaust (the dealer had no idea what smooth tubes were or about mods of any kind). If the previous owner knew enough to modify the car, does that indicate he drove it pretty hard? Tough to tell.

For me the car will be a weekend/nice day driver. I will go to the track once or twice a year.

 

[01sapphireGTS]

Adam: IMO, the car to much $$. For that price range I think you can find a 10-15K mile car with stripes, and NO front liscense plate frame. I don't care what your local state laws are, you'll never be able to resell a drilled front facia. You can still buy a pretty nice GTS for the $50K range and I don't think this car is it... If you want some help looking, let us know what your preferences are and we'll help you find the right car.

It is important that you go drive some vipers to get a feel for what they are. Mods or the lack of mods don't tell the entire story. I use my car for exactly what you will be using yours for (minus the track days) and I have mods done to mine because IMO they make the car "perfect for me". I never track it or street race it etc, just gently cruise it. But my mods were "must-do's" for me to enjoy the car the right way...

 

[PDCjonny]

Smooth tubes and exhaust are the first mods everybody makes if they are intending to keep the car a while, the stock exhaust is weak. I have never tracked or raced mine, and I did those mods with hi flo cats and short shifter cause I wanted my car that way. Like Todd said, said those are all bolt ons and easy. That drilled front license plate is a deal killer to me, there are plenty of cars around with much lower mileage.

 

[DocAdam]

Wow, good eye. I hadn't noticed the drilled front.

In my conversations with the dealer, I have already told him that I think the price is too high. I know he has some room to deal.

I mentioned that similar high mileage GTS's were going for about 40K on Ebay and he said that was too low. he basically indicated that they would go down as long as the price kept above what they could get at auction.

Todd, I guess my question is when using all this information to get the price down, what price should I be shooting for, or should I just run and look for something with half the mileage?

Thanks again.

PS - My wife has indicated that there will be no stripes, nor red, nor silver, nor yellow cars in my future. She has also indicated that the only acceptable interior shall be black. So sayeth the wife.

Basically, I am looking at black and charcoal in RT's and GTS's. For the RT's I would like 98 and up (power windows). I don't plan on going FI, at least not anytime in the near future, so the forged internal engine is not necessary. Heads and cam may be a different story.

Adam

 

[Matthew Klinger]

I agree with 01sapphireGTS, that price is to high for that kind of mileage. I recently bought an 2002 GTS (same color) with the smooth tubes, "ston gard", and a 7/70 with 7900 miles on her for 3K more than what they are asking for on this one. I thought I got a good deal, I'm sure others have gotten better. My advice would be, be picky and patient.

best of luck

 

[01sapphireGTS]

Adam: Like I and ViperJon stated, the drilled front facia is "a deal breaker". This car should sell in the very low $40's. It's just too many miles to "start your V10 experience" with... If your going to buy it for occasional use, get something nice and then keep it that way. The higher mile cars are perfect for guys who are going to use them as every day drivers, because miles simply don't matter at that point.

I would still go drive it, but don't buy it. When you sit in the car you end up buying, you'll be able to tell "the difference" between it and this one.

I'll have some more free time later this evening and over the weekend, I'll (and maybe we'll) help you find a dark, non-striped, blk interior car. I'm assuming in the mid $40K to mid $50K range ? You have to keep in mind, depending on circumstances, the seller may be willing to move $2-6K off his asking price. PM me if you don't want to put out public numbers, I'll be glad to help you find what you are looking for (as would most other VCA Members here).

What is your ceiling number, and what mods (if any) do you want to end up with ? Feel free to phone me anytime 330-327-4880.

 

[DocAdam]

Thank you all for the great responses. Todd, I'd like to keep under 52K (under 50 would be best) it's kind of an arbitrary number but you have to start somewhere.

What do you do if you live in a state that has mandatory front plates? Are there systems where you don't have to drill the front? DC is a front plate city, but I have never had one on my Z. As long as you aren't running around with a bloody knife (and even that may be OK as long as you don't go near the tourists or Georgetown), the cops pretty much leave you alone.

I will probably be moving to NJ in about a year. Does anyone know how strict they are in NJ?

As for mods, I would probably do smooth tubes, K&N and exhaust myself, so if they are there it is a bonus - but they are not important. Maybe even high flow cats. I don't want it obnoxiously loud (so no cat/muffler deletes).

 

[PDCjonny]

Most of us do live in states with front license plate requirements, but I don't know anyone who has one on. I have never been stopped in almost a year here in NY. If I was, I'd pay the fine and hope it doesn't happen again. If it became an issue there is always this nifty little unit, it really works and of course doesn't harm anything on the car. I have seen this in person and it is really neat.

See: http://partsrack.blastmart.com/customer/product.php?productid=1385&cat=153&page=1

 

[Wifey's Viper]

If you plan on installing the Corsa get the Hi Flow cats. When I bought my car the previous owner had done the Corsa but left the stock cats. The car sounded miserable. The cats make a difference but the car is far from loud in my opinion. It also gives the car more of a rumble.

 

[2000GTS]

I used to own a 02 graphite. It's a great color.

If your going to drive the car then I wouldn't worry about the miles, just buy a warrantee. The 02's are still eligible for the max care warrantee. Call Chuck Tator, he can hook you up. He quoted a friend of mine about $2000 for a 7 year. There's no point paying a premium for a low mile car if your just going to run up the miles yourself.

Bill

 

[99 R/T 10]

If you can get him down to $45K, that would be a good deal on a 2002. The facia can be repaired fairly easily. My main concern would be if the car was taken care of and would get it checked out top to bottom(frame!).

 

[DocAdam]

Bondo, possibly one of the greatest inventions of the 20th century (with the possible exception of duct tape).

JK, I would not bondo a relatively new viper.

I am going to stop by tomorrow, I will take some detailed pictures and try to get the car up on a rack. I will try to post them moday.

While the mileage and the drilled bumper don't thrill me, if the price goes low enough ... then the price goes low enough. While not ideal, you could do a lot worse (keeping in mind the final purchase will be dependent on a leakdown/compression test).

 

[DEVILDOG]

PS - My wife has indicated that there will be no stripes, nor red, nor silver, nor yellow cars in my future. She has also indicated that the only acceptable interior shall be black. So sayeth the wife.


Adam

Adam, how many miles on the wife? May want to consider trading her in...just kidding. Sounds like she dosen't want any hot chicks seeing you in a bright colored Viper. Good advice you've received above so I have nothing to add except that any Viper that is modded should not be a concern as I find that those that mod usually take great care of their cars considering the time and $$$ they have spent to make it the way they want it. Good luck with your search and purchase.

 

[BobK898]

Way overpriced.

 

[Leslie]

hey good luck with your search.

half the fun of getting my GTS last month was looking for it

www.autotrader.com
www.premierviper.com
www.vipersforsale.com (where I bought mine)
www.dupontregistry.com

 

[DocAdam]

Here is the carfax report. Does 3 owners mean anything?

No severe problems (major accidents, fire, flood damage, major odometer problems or lemon history) were ever reported by a Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) for this 2002 DODGE VIPER GTS/GTS-L (1B3ER69EX2V102152). If you find that any of these severe problems were reported by a DMV and not included in this report, CARFAX will buy this vehicle back.

You must register at www.CARFAX.com to activate this free guarantee!

CARFAX Talking CarTM
The story of this 2002 DODGE VIPER GTS/GTS-L (1B3ER69EX2V102152) according to our interpretation of the information reported to CARFAX:
This coupe has had 3 owners and was owned in New York and Virginia. It was originally registered to a company, like a bank or firm, to be used for business purposes.
It has had no minor or moderate accidents reported to CARFAX.
It has had no DMV-reported total loss events, like a major accident, fire or flood.
It has not been reported by a DMV as having an Exceeds Mechanical Limits or Not Actual Mileage title.
It has a consistent mileage history with no indication of an odometer rollback. It was driven an average of 11,206 miles per year, which is lower than the industry average of 15,000. The last odometer reading, reported on 06/29/2005, was 34,760 miles.
It was not reported by a DMV as a Manufacturer Buyback (LEMON).
Its basic warranty has expired. You may want to discuss an extended warranty with your dealer.

 

[PDCjonny]

Call Chuck Tator at Tators Dodge or another Dodge dealer you may know and have him run the VIN number for you, it'll bring up service records and any warranty work performed. I don't have his number at hand, but search this site it'll be there.

 

[plumcrazy]

what jon said. tator helped me bigtime.

dont sweat the miles. but i dont like the drilled front fascia.

 

[01sapphireGTS]

Doc: Here are two numbers that should really help with your search. Chuck Tator 914-763-3136 for any parts etc... & Bill Pemberton
800-889-1893 at Woodhouse Dodge. My car was originally purchased from Bill (new) and everyone who has posted about purchasing a viper (even sight unseen) has been thrilled with their car. Bill knows where cars are sitting for sale even if they aren't on his lot. It's worth the phone call for sure.

Here are some cars I found doing a very quick look around the web:

autotrader.com
01 GTS Sapphire (no stripes blk interior) 11K $53850 IL
00 GTS Black (no stripes blk interior) 13.8K $53500 WI
00 GTS Black (no stripes blk interior) 16.7K $48440 IL

ebay.com
00 GTS Charcoal 18.5K TX http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4565749751

Seems like a lot of the dark cars came with the Conoly interior, but they are not to difficult to find un-striped.

still looking...

 

[99 R/T 10]

I would consider the 2001 over the 2000 anyday, if only for the ABS!

 

[Batboy]

Adam, since know one has suggested this I will. You may want to contact Ron Hickey. He is the president of the Viper Club in the VA/MD region and lives in Arlington off Rt 50. He will be down here in Fredericksburg tomorrow. Three are many of us in the area that can help you look for/at cars. Ron helped me find my car. Also, you may want to consider a car from a club member. You may pay a little premium but you will know the history of the car most likely. As for this car I would be leery of any car that was owned by a company. I'll PM you with some phone numbers. Also, if you can come down south tomorrow we are having a cruise with several Vipers. It would be a good opportunity to ride/see and maybe drive some Vipers.

 

[Batboy]

Adam, can't send you a PM. Here's a link to the cruise tomorrow. Contact me if you want to chat or see some Vipers.

http://members.cox.net/viperpage/cruise1.html

 

[PDCjonny]

Adam
Whatever you do make sure you get an extended warranty! Chuck Tator can hook you up or Bill Pemberton as well. It is worth it what ever the cost, take it from me. I was not able to get one because I have a '98 and have had some large out of pocket expenses that would have been covered. (Like a rebuilt tranny). That alone would have covered the price of the extended warranty.

 

[01sapphireGTS]

Adam: There ya go, hook up with Batboy and go see, ride, & maybe drive some "nice" cars. Don't jump on the one you originally posted about just because it's cheap. There are several VCA Members that would take the time and be more than willing to help. If your a serious buyer, don't be shy - take advantage of what is being offered. There are big "end-user" differences in a GTS and a ACR etc, these are the things you should know before buying. Go see a group of cars that are owned by people who love them, don't spend an afternoon just looking at one car.

 

[DocAdam]

Wow, a ton of great help here. And I will definately be taking some people up on the help they have offered.

I am pretty sure I will be getting a Viper in the next 4 months, but since I do have a pretty fun sports car right now (310 at the wheels isn't too bad) I can be patient.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I will be seeing any vipers today as my wife has made plans for us to be at her coworkers house at 2pm. However, next weekend she will be in Miami for a baby shower and I would love to take you guys up on the offer then.

Thanks again for everything, it seems like a really great and supportive owners group.

 

[Bernard]

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I will be seeing any vipers today as my wife has made plans for us to be at her coworkers house at 2pm. However, next weekend she will be in Miami for a baby shower and I would love to take you guys up on the offer then.

Wow!!

 

[2MANYTOYS]

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I will be seeing any vipers today as my wife has made plans for us to be at her coworkers house at 2pm. However, next weekend she will be in Miami for a baby shower and I would love to take you guys up on the offer then.

Wow!!

I was thinking the same thing!