Roe blower with methanol injection?

[obaa996]

I'm looking forward to picking up a GTS soon, and already scoping mods for it; a Roe blower with the methanol injection kit is pretty high on the list now that I see a few local guys have theirs running well.
I'm curious about the methanol kit, and what quantifiable benefits it offers. I understand that it will lower the intake charge temp, thus boosting hp/reducing detonation, but I haven't seen any dyno charts which show the before/after difference. Does the kit act as a power adder on top of the blower gains, or does it just allow you to increase the boost level, i.e. an 8 lb. system would theoretically produce the same power with or without a methanol kit, but in reality, you wouldn't likely be able to run an 8lb. system at all if you didn't have the methanol kit?
I'm also curious about the actual usage/maintenance of the system, given mine will likely be a daily driver. How quickly the methanol is consumed (something like a couple gallons of methanol per tank of gas?)? Where do you buy this stuff? How much is it, and is it commonly available (as in, will I be able to find it along the way if I take a cross country trip)? Does it go bad like gas if left sitting; I've heard that the oxygenated gas out here will rot fuel lines, etc.? Along the same lines, what happens if you run out of methanol in the middle of nowhere, and can't get more. Does the VEC2 track and compensate for it? Or do you need to have the car tuned twice (with and without methanol) and swap programs in this case?
As to the actual running of the car, I read on Roe's website that anti-freeze windshield washer fluid could be used. I'd imagine that the quantity and quality of the methanol in wiper fluid would vary from company to company, and likely from batch to batch. How does the concentration (and quality) of the methanol affect the car's tuning? Is the tuning tolerant of changes in methanol concentration? Does the VEC2 automatically compensate for it?
As you can tell, it's all pretty mysterious to me; I'd appreciate any info you can give.
Thanks!

 

[plumcrazy]

call sean and dave at roe. they always help me when i have questions.

 

[IEATVETS]

That was a mouthfull! Roe has a great product but they don't have the only horse in the stable if you know what I mean.

 

[Purdue_Boiler_Viper]

Good questions obaa996. Please keep us posted.

 

[DEADEYE]

After having my h20/**** installed, I drove from Florida to New Orleans, La. I didn't use a drop of it. It only sprays under boost. The Viper has more than enough to drive normally under vacume so that won't be a problem. Even if it is, Roe can make you a non-h20/ **** card that you insert so you can run a safe tune. It's just 0 degree windshield wiper fluid too.

 

[mntngts99]

As you mentioned the water/**** cools the intake charge temp and helps with reducing detonation. The power gains come from being able to run more timing. The VEC2 controls the water/**** based on load, boost and RPM. Right now I'm using windshield washer fluid and use the same brand every time. I use about 1/2 the tank of washer fluid for every two tanks of gas. Unless your making more the 3lb of boot your water/**** pump will not be activated.

Heres my last dyno sheet. I have the 8lb W/M tuned to the point that I'm happy but still need to work on the 10lb pulley. run1 is base line 8lb pulley and 9 is with W/M. last run was 10lb pulley.

 

[mntngts99]

EDIT
I know AUSTIN,,, Wrong Forum,, My Bad.

 

[Schulmann]

Methanol reduces detonation risk. Water does the same but with a lowered effectiveness. So either you can run on higher boost or on lower octane fuel. If you run out of methanol simply use water, that`s fine too. Usually for simple street use I only run on 10% **** and 90% water. Methanol is a very agressive fluid. For instance within 3-4 years a real winter windshield fluid will mark the paint on your hood. Be carefull when using methanol and don`t abuse it. When used with moderation methanol is a great performance booster.

If you run out of water/methanol, reprogram the VEC2 => retard your ignition 2-6 degrees. But you can always get water somewhere.

Oxygenated fuel is not an issue. Methanol is far more agressive. Even unleaded race fuels are now oxygenated.
When you let your fuel sit for a long period (4-5 months) it will loose its octan level. This is why people complain about "old" fuel. It simply lost its octan level that's it. Your car is still in 100% good shape.

When driving on the hwy usually my w/m lasts 1000mi-1500mi. On the track it gets empty as fast as my fuel tank.

The best is to call Roe Racing they will explain you everything you want to know.

 

[KenH]

Something to keep in mind is that the Water/Methanol injection adds another level of tuning that is required and it is not as straight forward as normal a/f tuning. Assuming your GTS has forged pistons, I'd tune the car for no water/**** initially and get it running well, then add in the water/**** and retune for that combo. That would also give you two cards so that you can run either way.

Unfortunately, there are no local experts on tuning the Roe system much less with water/methanol. Unless you are looking for max possible power, an 8lb system without water/methanol will give you the most problem free setup in my opinion. One of the local Vette tuners owns an 8lb Roe Viper and is adding water/methanol to his system, so he may be a resource to help tune this spring.

Winter formula windshield fluid from Walmart is the simplist and cheapest source around here. It's only a little over a buck a gallon and 25% or so methanol. I think HorsepowerFreaks out by the airport carries straight methanol if you want to mix your own.

 

[obaa996]

Guys,
Thanks for the info; it clears up a lot of issues for me. I didn't realize that the methanol was diluted as heavily as that. I'm also kind of surprised that the 0 degree fluis is so readily available. I wouldn't have thought that it'd be commonly available in Louisiana, for instance; that's a good thing. I think if I do go with it, that I'd mix my own just for consistency though.
Thanks for posting the dyno chart. It looks like the water/methanol covers most of the spread towards the next pulley (maybe equivalent to 9.5lb of boost). I've heard that at the 10lb. point, the fuel system is on the ragged edge of max'ed out? How consistent is the power output when the ambient/engine temp varies, and does the VEC compensate for this? I'd think the methanol would help keep things more consistent (probably not as well as the intercooler on the Paxton, but maybe similar?). If it helps in that regard, then it's probably worth the extra tuning and maintenance effort. If not, I think I'd just opt for the bigger pulley.
I understand your approach of adding one upgrade at a time; makes sense to have two programs for with and without methanol. This also answers the question of whether the VEC compensates for the **** (apparently not). Sounds like there is big potential danger if you accidentally run out of methanol without being aware of it (and are using the wrong program). The guys at Roe mentioned that there is no level sensor built into the system, and it doesn't sound like you can visually inspect the level in the tank (it's mounted inside the rear fender?). Do you just carry around extra water/methanol and top off when filling the tank?
On a slight tangent, I'm pretty sure I'll be putting in roller rockers along with everything else. I'd rather put it in upfront, than have to go through retuning (twice, due to the methanol/no methanol issue). I'm thinking that the forced induction will make the gains from the rockers larger than if just normally aspirated. And perhaps this is a really stupid question, but if the goal of the methanol is to cool down the intake temp, would a small shot of nitrous be equally effective (for cooling purposes, and not power adder purposes)? I'm asking about the nitrous because I have a setup sitting in the garage which I never got around to putting in my RT; if it'll duplicate the methanol, I may as well use it...
Thanks again!
P.S. Ken, which tuner finally worked out the kinks in your tuning? It seems like there are now several in the area, with various people falling in and out of favor....

 

[Schulmann]

obaa996,

W/M is very simple. It works great and is "easy" to tune. W/M tanks is quite large and there were never concerns about running out of fluid. You can easily see the water level in the tank, it is mounted behind the real wheel right fender in the trunk.

I had similar concerns like you when I installed this system. It took me about 1000mi before I started fully trust the installation and so on. It was normal, the system was unknown for me. Now it is always on when the engin is under boost. Install it and get used to it ...