Vette vs Viper Vid VIR viper days revisited

[timz06]

Hi Guys, thought you would enjoy this vid...hope it is not too boring. The bulk of the vid is me vs. a race prepped viper. Don't know his specs anyone know? His car says big dog racing on it I believe. I was able to pass him the first day, but he learned the track and improved. Thought I had him in the vid as well, but couldn't quite reel him in. This vid shows the strengths and weaknesses of both cars, you can see how he pulls me in the straights and then gets reeled in. In the end he built up some distance and my oil temp was 300 so I had to shut it down. PS. the second blue gts in the vid is my HUCKELBERRY FLYIN RYAN!
Tim
http://slobird.com/movies/redviper.wmv

 

[Vic]

Nice driving, Tim.

So are you going to put a big oil cooler on that car? Seems like the next step, cause you can push it hard enough.

 

[riverflyer]

Tim, nice video. Two questions. What kind of work have you done to your car(Z06 I take it)?
What kind of speeds were you guys putting down on the long straights?
Seems like you came into most of the corners much hotter than the Viper, is that true and due to line choice or difference in cars? Well I guess thats three questions.

 

[cratica]

That's what I noticed as well. The vette driver is really pushing his car, squeeling on the corners, getting loose a few times, etc. The viper drivers for the most part seem to be pretty cautious with their awesome rides and having a spirited sunday drive! That's exactly why I'm looking for a vette too. I need a ****** car for the track. I don't want to risk wrecking my viper. I definately would have waved you by like all the vipers did. All in all, cool video.

 

[ViperJohn]

Thanks for sharing the video. I enjoyed watching you reel 'em in under braking.

 

[cratica]

Timz, were you on your racing tires again or are these stock tires?

 

[timz06]

Hi Guys, I was running on stock tires, that was a rule from Skip if you didn't have a roll bar. Kuhmo ecsta mx. Those things make a ton of noise. Tire doesn't have awesome grip but ok. Fun tire to drive on because it is very predictable and will squawl like hell before it lets go, and then it will let go gradually.

I don't know if I will get an oil cooler...usually I am ok for 30 mins, if I am not running with someone I will just take a break here and there and cruise on the back straight and cool things down.

The car is stock except for borla catback. Just put a vararam intake on a couple of days ago, hopefully it will give me a little more speed at ra on the straights weekend after next.

I was hitting about 146 on the back straight going over the hill according to my gps. We got a good laugh, one viper guy was claiming he hit 160 on the straight, (first viper passed in the vid) we gave him the gps and he only hit 146. He said something was wrong with the gps.

 

[pdmracing]

I love the gps, It dont lie, Its amazing how fast people THINK they are going!

 

[Janni]

Thanks for posting the video.

One clarification - this is a fairly stock street car on Pilot Sports - NOT a race prepped car at all. It's a non-ABS ACR, street alignment, nothing tweaked, still running stock brake pads. He does have headers, highflow cats, cat back, wing and splitter. And a TON of vinyl. Don't feel bad - everyone that sees his car at car shows always says it's the fastest, too. We call it "visual horsepower"....

He drives 2-3 track events a year, but mostly on the street. He's a very smooth driver that improves each time he goes out. He hadn't been checking his tire pressures this event until Sunday afternoon and then when we dropped them down, he managed to run a 2:17:9 - a personal best. And, based on how conservative he is, there's more there.

 

[NascarDave]

Tim,
Nice pic's on your site

Have fun and be safe. Viper Days rocks!

DN

 

[Bugeater]

Race prepped. Lol. Stuart will love that! We did change the brake pads and brake fluid the weekend before.

Good video Tim!

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

Video tape me next year when I'm there! That is of course If I slow down so your still in sight by turn 5. I've topped all my personal bests at every track this year on street tires and the 2:12:6 I've done at VIR will be in jeopardy next year! Tim you should have hauled up the car to Putnam Park this last weekend. Two other guys I saw had Georgia plates made the trip. The weather and track conditions all weekend surrendered what I thought were exceptional times from all participants. Actually Tim you were getting pulled away from on the exits to all the three long straights. You caught them up on braking for the next turn. Especially the turn on to the long front stretch you were driving a straight line through the last two turns which sets up a to early of an apex on the last corner slowing you down through that. I try to get parallel to the curbing on the preceding turn that way when I turn in for the last turn with a full head of steam I have a generous amount of track left at track out. On those three areas I can see you picking up 4 to 5 seconds if you continue to brake like you do at the ends of the straights.

 

[CitySnake]

Nice Video Tim! Thanks.
My few comments were generally answered in the thread that followed your post. I was actually surprised at how much you were able to outbreak the Viper and how much he would out accelerate you...but it would SEEM that you were the better driver overall on that day (better may = driving harder). As was mentioned, there was a LOT of difference in the entry speeds to turns. The Viper was on the breaks WAY earlier than you entering virtually corner. In that regard, I'm not sure that your video exhibits as much the differences in the car but more the differences in drivers.

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

Nice Video Tim! Thanks.
I was actually surprised at how much you were able to outbreak the Viper and how much he would out accelerate you. The Viper was on the breaks WAY earlier than you entering virtually corner.

Anti lock brakes are the big issue as I witnessed first hand this weekend riding along in a car that has them. They can go into the brake zone further and slam them on without tire lock up. In non ABS cars such as mine I have to worry about lockup and have to brake way sooner. In the vid you saw one car give Tim a little smoke to drive through. Turn 1 at VIR has over the years has significantly flatspotted 3 passenger front tires on me.

 

[cratica]

Another point is that if I were on a track for the first time in my Viper, I would be going around the track just as these viper drivers were. The vette is much more forgiving and allows novice drivers (like myself) to drive them much harder with less fear of losing her. If I were in my old vette on this track, I would have felt much more comfortable and would have really pushed the car as Timz did his.

My viper is not the easiest car to get the best performance out of (but definately the most fun!). However, if I spent a couple of weeks at the track with my viper and my old vette, the viper would slap the vette around the track something silly by the end of the two weeks!

 

[Vic]

I hate to say it, but I felt more confident sliding my Vette around, than I do my Viper. I think there are a couple of reasons for that-
1. The Viper costs more, and it would be very sad to turn her into a taco-shaped lump.
2. The Viper has higher limits, so your "hearts' in your mouth" as you reach farther and farther into the unknown regions of the cars' capability. Takes a lot of nerve to find the limits. Turn 8 at WillowSprings comes to mind, 135mph for the fast guys.
3. The Corvette is a very stable, predictable handling car, that doesn't have a lot of surprises near the limit.

 

[cratica]

VIC!

That's what I was trying to say! You have a way of saying
things much better than I.

Yes, I felt much more confident sliding my vette around than I do the viper. Guys at work wanted me to go with them to their vette days equivalent at Texas world speedway and I just couldn't take my dear beloved out there! I would have taken my vette in a heatbeat. The vette is much like my miata, a sure handler and you can feel faster in it because you can reach the limit MUCH easier.

That extra handling capability and those extra tenths of G force the Viper has over the vette come at a price. It's called experience and seat time. I don't have it.

 

[Mike 99ACR]

That red Viper was awesome. Thats the results I always see with Zo6's. Be glad he did not have a big brake package and was a novice driver with little track time. There will always be some first time Viper's on the track to pass. Thanks for showing what a Viper can do.

 

[Bugeater]

Alan,
What size street tires are you using up-front? Are you using your purners w/street tires, or stock rims?

 

[timz06]

Alan, thanks for the critique! That was my first weekend at the track, so I know I have lot's to learn. My best time was a 2:17 so I need 5 secs to catch your 2:12, I don't think it is going to happen on those tires, plus it was very hot, over 90 killing my power.

BTW flyin ryan was the second car in the vid and he is not a novice driver, we both had about the same time on the track, just that I got an extra 1/2 day in on Friday on the north course.

I was asking about the mods on the red car because it was covered with stickers and said big dog racing, and was very loud. I have never been spanked by a stock viper and invite you stock guys to bring it to road atlanta sept 28th!

tim

 

[timz06]

Mike what kind of times do you run at sebring?

Tim

 

[NascarDave]

Hoosier Daddy, when I rode with Ray, I told him that if I drove like that in my non-ABS, I'd be picking up hedgehogs all day long. It's amazing how much better the ABS makes a driver...especially if they have a yellow car!

DN

 

[cratica]

" I have never been spanked by a stock viper"

Timz, did the Viper drivers you "spanked" know they were supposed to be racing you?

 

[timz06]

I guess not, I was the only guy at vir driving hard in the advanced group.

 

[VPRGTS]

HDaddy & Nascar,

Your killing me.

Got the car cleaned up from the last weekend. Had lots of "bugs" to clean off of mine. How are you doing getting all that "rubber" off the front of yours? How is it that I got the bugs and you got the rubber? Ha,ha.

Now that you got a ride in mine you know my secret. Throw it across the turn and catch it (hopefully) on the other side.

-the rolling no pest strip.

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

Alan,
What size street tires are you using up-front? Are you using your purners w/street tires, or stock rims?

I use Purners 17" rim 12" wide with 315 sized Michelin front tires. The stock rim width of 10" I feel is to narrow for that sized tire.

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

HDaddy & Nascar,

Your killing me.

Got the car cleaned up from the last weekend. Had lots of "bugs" to clean off of mine. How are you doing getting all that "rubber" off the front of yours? How is it that I got the bugs and you got the rubber? Ha,ha.

Now that you got a ride in mine you know my secret. Throw it across the turn and catch it (hopefully) on the other side.

-the rolling no pest strip.

I did notice some grass clippings and dirt tight to many of the apex curbings slowing down my efforts wondering if I was going to find any grip left following you.

 

[VPRGTS]

I had a blast. Let's get together again soon.

For those of you that haven't attended a Viperdays event recently, GO. You are missing out on some truly great people and it is definitely the most fun you can have with the car (whether you are pushing the limits or not).

I had over 7 hours of track time this past weekend. Not typical for other driving events. And the people do not compare.

 

[SNAKOIL VA]

Heck, I ran a 2:14.849 (87.2 mph avg.) at VIR back in May. The fast guys in this class are running 2:11's and 2:09's in the same car. Not bad for a little 2 cylinder, 500cc, SCCA F-5 car with bad spec suspension!

 

[pdmracing]

BTW flyin ryan was the second car in the vid and he is not a novice driver, we both had about the same time on the track, just that I got an extra 1/2 day in on Friday on the north course.

I was asking about the mods on the red car because it was covered with stickers and said big dog racing, and was very loud. I have never been spanked by a stock viper and invite you stock guys to bring it to road atlanta sept 28th!

tim

Now Now Tim,
I didnt know Drivers Ed class was racing?? Passing in designated areas & no passing in turns? I dont think so. If you think that is racing, come out & try it some time. Are you faster than Rouleau @ Road Atlanta? Thats a stock car (cat backs) & a novice driver(less than 1 years on track). Months ago with ME in his car(220lbs) I timed him @ 1:44's on a 29 degree day. That same day & in that same car I was 4+ seconds quicker. I think the last time he was out he was down to the 141's. Oh yeah @ VIR rouleau was running some used piloted I gave him that were in my garage since 1998!

Most of the Vipers you are on track with have no ABS & the average investment is double that of a vette. So most guys who are novice drivers, approach the limits with caution, because no anti locks are gonna save their a$$ if they go in too deep.Never mind the tendancy to flat spot the fronts.
Granted you are doing very well, So dont let it go to your head. The best part of this sport is that you can always get better & there is always someone better than you.

Remember the old saying
"There are only 2 kinds of racing drivers. Those that have crashed, & those that havent crashed yet."