05 SRT with better shifter vs. Z06

[phoenix1]

I think that most agree that the stock shifter is clumsy, and slow at best. 3 other shifters I see mentioned in the forum are Hurst, SVS, and B&M. I'd like to see a clear cut winner by testing the 3 shifters and stock in the same SRT. Use several drivers and do a few straight line runs (0-60, 1/4 mile, 1 mile)to determine the king of the shifter. I feel there's gotta be an improvement in times (1 or more tenth improvement?). Now the real test! Every car mag. that's done a comparison test between the SRT and Z06, has the Z06 slightly faster depending on the length of the run. I'd now like to see the SRT with the newly crowned shifter take a stab at a Z06. Wouldn't that blow one's mind if all it took was a slick shift? Maybe one of the shifter manufactures would do a comparison test. What a PR move if one of the manufactures could make the claim that ours is the fastest and slickest shift, but will also move you ahead of a Z06. Comments guys?

 

[Alexarz]

I would think that other variables would outweigh any increased efficiency of a shifter. Racer Robbie is supposed to have a good shifter for sale to Viper owners.

 

[ASKYOURWIFE]

That was pretty lame to be honest...Then couldnt the z06 benifit from a different shifter as well?

Ive read of guys on here doing 11.7-12.0 at 120-123 mph in their stock SRT 10's...

the Z06 guys run 11.5-11.8 at 121-126 for their better drivers....

Theyre both fast cars..the z06 is faster..But the Viper is much more rare..more expensive and more beautiful..

Now to really equal things out you'd have to put both cars on the same exact tires...

Then and only then do i think the SRT 10 would give the Z06 a run for it's money.

WHY CAN THE 02 RT 10 DO THE 1/4 MILE IN 12.0 AT 118 MPH...BUT THE SRT 10 RUNS THE SAME 12.0 BUT AT 121 MPH ( CAS IT'S TIRES ****)

 

[valentine_viper]

I recently installed the Hurst shifter on my '04 SRT-10, and while it's an improvement over the stock one, I very much doubt that it would make the car faster than a Z06 in the 1/4. However, I then changed out the wheels and tires to SSRs with sport cups. That shaved about 72 lbs of unsprung weight, improved traction and did away with the wheel hop. I'm pretty sure that it would now beat a stock Z06 pretty easily, drivers being equal.

 

[Racer Robbie]

I would think that other variables would outweigh any increased efficiency of a shifter. Racer Robbie is supposed to have a good shifter for sale to Viper owners.

Thanks Alex.

While a good shifter, we blueprint our shifters, would help lower ET times there is a lot more to it than just a shifter. Weight is the big factor between the viper and the Z06. The viper is a weight hog. I have shaved over 160 lbs off my viper with more to go.

I would love to go up against a z06 with my viper. I have tried to talk my brother in law into putting his foot where his mouth is as he is all talk and no action when it comes to running his Z06 against me in a drag race.

And in my humble opinion our Vipers are road racing cars and not drag racing cars.

Robbie

 

[Bo knows]

Robbie

What did you do to loose the weight ? Anything we can all benifit from ?

Bo

 

[Racer Robbie]

wheels, tires, crossover pipes, cats, exhaust system, wind deflectors, heat shields, air bags, stock steering wheel, seat brackets

 

[SnakeBitten]

I fail to see how a shifter is going to make the Viper faster than the Z06...If you are talking ET wise it will help but you are still going to be traveling at 2-4 mph slower at the end of the 1/4....IMHO for the SRT Vipers to run with or beat a Z06 they should get lighter wheels and tires, complete exhaust, 11 lb Braile battery[over 100lbs weight savings all together] then add gearing and you will be right there with a STOCK Z06.....ET-ing with them in the 1/4 dont mean shyte when you run on the highway...Unless you drop weight and add gears etc it will run away from you on the highway...We've all seen the videos of how easily it runs away from the Viper on the highway..A shifter aint gonna even things up..

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

This thread was completely moronic. Leave it to "Racer Robbie" to interject.

 

[JBsZ06]

Theres always someone faster etc..

The acceleration of the quartermile is overrated..as a few tenths of a second one way or the other don't really matter that much.

Once a car goes over 400 hp it is my belief off the line acceleration is more a matter of driver skill and tires...

If I remember correctly the race track times of the viper and the Z are so close its like a tenth of a second...(latest car and driver)

Its really a matter of whose got the better stock tires that might make a difference.

You mention changing the shifter? I say dump the stock runflat tires and then compare...both cars..

Runflats **** for acceleration. The sidewalls are so stiff they allow the tires to just spin off the line...(if that tenth or two of 1/4 mile acceleration really matters)

Get a nice set of soft compound street tires and dump the stiff runflats....if you really want to get the best out of a car..(for street driving they are fine)

Did I mention I'm not a big fan of runflats..?

Have a good one.

JB

 

[valentine_viper]

Tires and wheels are definitely the key. I ran my 04 SRT-10 this weekend on the the SSR Comp wheels and sport cups. Ran 11.9 at 118 mph. There's definitely a couple 10s improvement still to be had. My 60' was mid 1.8s. I'm sure I can do better with a little more practice. I bogged out of the hole and then spun pretty bad in second which cost me some mile per hour. With practice, 11.6 to 11.7 at 120 to 122 mph is what I estimate.

Only other mods are Hurst shifter and DC reflash. That puts it pretty much even (or maybe a tad quicker) with a stock Z06. Of course, throw a set of comp wheels and sport cups on a Z06, and it will have an advantage again (assuming the drive train holds together).

 

[Racer Robbie]

Just dumping the runflats and reshoeing with the same stock size tires from Michelin in Non run flats makes a huge difference. I can not believe the difference. Luke from Tire Rack and Jon from Parts Rack recommended it. It is like driving a different car.

 

[MbnViper]

wheels, tires, crossover pipes, cats, exhaust system, wind deflectors, heat shields, air bags, stock steering wheel, seat brackets

also some CF Hood,CF front fascia,CF rear bumper..etc will do

 

[Viper X]

There are much better tire options than non-run flat Pilots and PS Cups.

Kumho Ecsta V-700's = traction. This swap alone will make a HUGE difference in your ability to get the car moving and keep it moving.

 

[valentine_viper]

There are much better tire options than non-run flat Pilots and PS Cups.

Kumho Ecsta V-700's = traction. This swap alone will make a HUGE difference in your ability to get the car moving and keep it moving.

I considered the kumhos, but was advised by a few people that had tried them that Sport Cups were better; equal or better traction, longer lasting and don't need to be shaved for track use (Tire Rack highly discourages track use of Kumhos without shaving). I also checked Tire Rack ratings on both tires and Sport Cups came up as the clear winner in almost every performance category: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=C

In addition, the Sport Cups are a little lighter and came in widths better suited for what I wanted (345 rear and 295 front)

 

[JBsZ06]

I forgot to mention years back I dumped the C5 corvette runflats on my 1999 C5 and replaced them with NON runflats.

I could not believe how much smoother and silkier the car drove. I got the feeling the car dropped 500 lbs...

It rode so much better. It make the car feel as though it shrunk down quite a bit.

I attributed the change to the decrease in unsprung weight as well as the softer sidewalls.

I can't say for sure about the viper SRT/10's runflats yet I have a feeling as mentioned by srt/10 owners above mentioned. It makes a huge difference.

For street performance the Viper SRT/10 's stock tires are excellent I'm sure...

I'm only suggesting if your looking for a mod to make an improvement (where none is really necessary) swapping out the tires is probably one of the best ways to go..

(btw if you go non runflat I'd suggest changing the alignment setting a bit to compensate for the softer sidewalls to get the most out of the handling and tire wear.

A good friend of mine locally has a viper srt/10 and he's let me drive it a couple of times .....Even as I drive it with the utmost respect to him as a friend and his car I could tell guys with your viper SRT/10's they are awesome vehicles.

Hope you don't mind a Corvette Z06 car enthusiast and owner who admires many fine vehicles including the Viper...

Great car! Enjoy

JB

 

[Racer Robbie]

I forgot to mention years back I dumped the C5 corvette runflats on my 1999 C5 and replaced them with NON runflats.

I could not believe how much smoother and silkier the car drove. I got the feeling the car dropped 500 lbs...

It rode so much better. It make the car feel as though it shrunk down quite a bit.

I attributed the change to the decrease in unsprung weight as well as the softer sidewalls.

I can't say for sure about the viper SRT/10's runflats yet I have a feeling as mentioned by srt/10 owners above mentioned. It makes a huge difference.

I found that running 36 front, 32 rear PSI works real well. This tends to dial out the understeer, push, from the softer sidewall non run flats.

For street performance the Viper SRT/10 's stock tires are excellent I'm sure...

I'm only suggesting if your looking for a mod to make an improvement (where none is really necessary) swapping out the tires is probably one of the best ways to go..

(btw if you go non runflat I'd suggest changing the alignment setting a bit to compensate for the softer sidewalls to get the most out of the handling and tire wear.

A good friend of mine locally has a viper srt/10 and he's let me drive it a couple of times .....Even as I drive it with the utmost respect to him as a friend and his car I could tell guys with your viper SRT/10's they are awesome vehicles.

Hope you don't mind a Corvette Z06 car enthusiast and owner who admires many fine vehicles including the Viper...

Great car! Enjoy

JB

 

[bluestreak]

wheels, tires, crossover pipes, cats, exhaust system, wind deflectors, heat shields, air bags, stock steering wheel, seat brackets

also some CF Hood,CF front fascia,CF rear bumper..etc will do

I hope some people reading here do realize the vette has crappy runflats too........

For all the mods listed in this thread add a CAI and tune on the vette will get you smoked once again.

 

[Viper X]

Valentine,

__________________________________________________________________________________

"I considered the kumhos, but was advised by a few people that had tried them that Sport Cups were better; equal or better traction, longer lasting and don't need to be shaved for track use (Tire Rack highly discourages track use of Kumhos without shaving). I also checked Tire Rack ratings on both tires and Sport Cups came up as the clear winner in almost every performance category: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=C

In addition, the Sport Cups are a little lighter and came in widths better suited for what I wanted (345 rear and 295 front)"
___________________________________________________________________________________

You've done some reading, good. I'm offering you real world experience as one of those people who have actually tried both tires and am trying to help. No matter what a few guys driving sport compacts (typically lighter, less powerful cars) or Tire Rack may say about PS Cups, on a Viper, on the race track, at the drags or on the street - and I've done all of the aforementioned activities with both types of tires in a 1000 hp SRT-10 and in a 650 hp GTS as well as in a stock GTS and SRT-10, the Sport Cups don't come close to the Kumhos in traction, no way, nada, no chance, period, exclamation point. When pushed hard, PS Cups overheat and get greasy, slippery and you will go off track with them. I've been there. No one at Viper Days runs these tires except the newbies. Ask John Archer. Check the tire's tread wear rating, the Kumhos are 50 - very soft and sticky, the Cups are 100 if memory serves - much harder. I personally think that they try and make the Cups last too long and give up traction.

Yes, you should shave the Kumhos for serious track useage, I do. Most Viper owners I know don't get anywhere near serious enought to need them shaved, but you should.

On the subject of how long the Kumhos will last, I'm at about 10,000 miles on the back of my 1000 hp SRT-10 and the Kumhos are still going ..... and I run this car hard.

I really wish Michelin would make a street / track tire worthy of being tracked on a Viper, I'd buy it, but they don't.

Finally, they are a bunch cheaper than the overpriced, underperforming PS Cups.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Dan

 

[GR8_ASP]

I also have real world experience, but only with sport cups. Unfortunately Kumho did not have any tires at the time when I was buying earlier this year. I have heard from others with Kumhos that they are excellent for the street. I have also heard the tread depth is too great and will result in tread rollover if you track them with full tread.

Sport Cups are clearly not ideal for the street. They need to be warmed before they respond well. They also need to be heat cycled or they will have the greasy result Viper X mentioned. Properly heat cycled I have found them to be an excellent track tire, but much more expensive to track than either stock tires or Hoosiers, etc. For track only I would not recommend them as the compromises for street use and higher cost is not worth it.

I have found that in cooler weather Sport Cups are far inferior to damn near anything. Just plain terrible. Same thing in the rain or wet roads. But on smooth roads in warm weather or on the track I have found them to be great. On the track, when properly heated I could not break them loose in 2nd (with 630 RWTQ) unless I was in transition. In 3rd they stuck like glue. And of course great cornering.

If Kumho ever came out with 19 inchers for the rear I would jump at it for my stock wheels. For my track wheels I would stay with Sport Cups or go to a track only tire (but since I drive to the track I have avoided Hoosiers).

Oh, another point, I have never experienced wheel hop with Cups. Wish I could say that about Pilots.

 

[valentine_viper]

You've done some reading, good. I'm offering you real world experience as one of those people who have actually tried both tires and am trying to help. No matter what a few guys driving sport compacts (typically lighter, less powerful cars) or Tire Rack may say about PS Cups, on a Viper, on the race track, at the drags or on the street - and I've done all of the aforementioned activities with both types of tires in a 1000 hp SRT-10 and in a 650 hp GTS as well as in a stock GTS and SRT-10, the Sport Cups don't come close to the Kumhos in traction, no way, nada, no chance, period, exclamation point. When pushed hard, PS Cups overheat and get greasy, slippery and you will go off track with them. I've been there. No one at Viper Days runs these tires except the newbies. Ask John Archer. Check the tire's tread wear rating, the Kumhos are 50 - very soft and sticky, the Cups are 100 if memory serves - much harder. I personally think that they try and make the Cups last too long and give up traction.

Yes, you should shave the Kumhos for serious track useage, I do. Most Viper owners I know don't get anywhere near serious enought to need them shaved, but you should.

On the subject of how long the Kumhos will last, I'm at about 10,000 miles on the back of my 1000 hp SRT-10 and the Kumhos are still going ..... and I run this car hard.

I really wish Michelin would make a street / track tire worthy of being tracked on a Viper, I'd buy it, but they don't.

Finally, they are a bunch cheaper than the overpriced, underperforming PS Cups.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Dan

I have been building some real world experience with the Sport Cups of my own lately, and in appears you may be right in some regards. I ran the Sport Cups at the drag strip weekend before last. Found that they hooked off the line much better than stock, but seemed to spin more in second (probably due to the much lighter wheel/tire combo). I spun almost all the way through second. Still got bad wheel hop (even worse than stock) if I tried to launch hard. Best technique seemed to be a low rpm launch, let it bog a little, then roll into the throttle pretty aggressively. Managed 1.8 60' times that way and feel I could do a good bit better with more practice and experimentation. I was never able to do better than 2.1 with the stockers. Ran 11.9s, but I'm sure I could work that down at least 2 or 3 10s. I wouldn't recommend Sport Cups specifically for drag racing, but they are better than stock. Khomos are probably better for this if you don't want to run drag radials.

Just yesterday, I autocrossed the car for the first time. I was using the Sport Cups. First let me say that while I am a pretty good drag racer and at least decent on a road course, I **** at autocross! Much harder than it looks. My impression of the Sport Cups for this is that they were terrible. It was cold out with intermitten sun. I tried different tire pressures, but seemed like everytime I got on the throttle the car would slide. My best time all day was 47.7 seconds. There were a few guys there (with Vipers) on stock tires and wheels running in the 43s. I let an instructor take mine for a lap and although he did much better than me, (in the 43s) he commented that Sport cups are not a good choice for autocross and he could have shaved another couple of seconds off if I had autocross tires. There were several cars there running Khomos and they were inveriably turning the fastest times.

Sport Cups definitely do not like the cold. I am impressed enough with what I have seen with the Khomos that I will probably try them next time around.

 

[Racer Robbie]

Guys, the post above is not mine, don't know why I am listed at the left of it but I changed from the Run Flats to Copperhead wheels with Michelin Non run flats and it is night and day. They are lighter and softer riding than the run flats and they are availble in stock OEM sizes. They out handle the run flats and are great in rain. This past weekend I got caught in a monsoon of a rain storm and I could not believe how good they were. The Michelin NON Run Flats are a good tire if you want to stay with your OEM size wheels and OEM Tire size.

 

[lankhoss]

That was pretty lame to be honest...Then couldnt the z06 benifit from a different shifter as well?

Ive read of guys on here doing 11.7-12.0 at 120-123 mph in their stock SRT 10's...

the Z06 guys run 11.5-11.8 at 121-126 for their better drivers....

Theyre both fast cars..the z06 is faster..But the Viper is much more rare..more expensive and more beautiful..

Now to really equal things out you'd have to put both cars on the same exact tires...

Then and only then do i think the SRT 10 would give the Z06 a run for it's money.

WHY CAN THE 02 RT 10 DO THE 1/4 MILE IN 12.0 AT 118 MPH...BUT THE SRT 10 RUNS THE SAME 12.0 BUT AT 121 MPH ( CAS IT'S TIRES ****)

If you think that the Goodyear runflats the Z06 has are better than........well, anything.....you are badly mistaken. That's probably the biggest "bottleneck" the Z06 has. Those tires are awful.

And the only reason the SRT-10 is anywhere near the Z06 in ET on the quarter mile IS because of its better traction. The Z traps no less than 2mph faster than the SRT-10 in the quarter mile, and sometimes as high as 5mph more....and that's a very big gap in speed. It only gets worse beyond the quarter, too.

 

[ASKYOURWIFE]

0-150 for the C6Z06 in 17.5

0-150 for the SRT 10 in 19.5

0-150 for the gen 2 in 22.0

Well the C6Z06 will hit 0-150 mph 2 seconds before the viper..In car lengths im sure thats pretty sustantial...

And a whopping 4.5 seconds before the Gen 2...

Well atleaste my gen 2 still looks better ( hey I know thats pretty coy...But not many cars really look better than a C6Z06..So I take some pride in that while I see 4 tail lights)

 

[ASKYOURWIFE]

Well i tried and tried to find C5Z06 0-150 mph times but I couldnt find anything..

But the Z51 base C6 did 0-150 mph in 25.0 seconds..

Still 3 tenths behind the gen 2 viper and 5.5 seconds behind the SRT-10...Atleaste that makes me feel a little better as well..

Man it seriously modding time.

 

[Flash1034]

Do they make them to fit the stock wheel size. Ive only seen Michelins and Racing slicks.
\
Flash

 

[Racer Robbie]

Flash, here is the link from Tire Rack for the tires that are made in the factory OEM sizes. They are as follows>

MICHELIN RUN FLATS
MICHELIN NON RUN FLAT PILOT SPORTS
HOOSIER A6 AUTOCROSS
HOOSIER R6 ROAD RACING

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/CompareTir...amp;RunFlat=All