Bob Lutz Gives"Thumbs Down" to the SRT/10!!!!!

[King GTS]

Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

Bob Lutz spoke out on the new SRT/10 and he didn't mince words! It seems like we're not alone on our feelings w/ the new "Viper".

And I quote....

"Glancing at the Dodge Viper, which he helped develop while at Chrysler, Lutz said, "It's sad that they've made the new version look too plain. They should have kept it looking like an outrageous high- performance sports car, which is what it originally was designed to be."

For those interested in the entire article...


Bob Lutz Speaks Out!

Click "News" then look under "Daily Headlines"......Lutz's comments are #2.


But this is exactly what a whole lot of current Viper owners have been saying all along! It's ironic that someone like Bob Lutz agrees with us whole heartedly.

 

[gtsviper]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

The entire article is not there so it's hard to respond without seeing the comments in context. Given that Lutz is now a senior executive with GM, it's hard to imagine him not criticizing the competition. Remember the strength he brought to Chrysler and the very reason he was sought after by GM is the brutal honesty and common sense he brings to the table. He's right, the outrageous shock value from the original Viper may not be there but instead we can look forward to incredible performance that most owners can only dream about using to the full potential. We also have the foundation we have built as VCA and Viper owners. Critics fail to comprehend that balance and evolution are good things. To all those who condemn the SRT, we suggest that you look at the big picture and stop whining.

 

[kverges]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

The new Viper is Dodge's response to the marketplace, IMO.

Look how the Viper has changed over the years. For example, the car did not start out with

1. Roll-up windows
2. Outside door handles
3. A/C
4. Electrically adjustable rearview mirrors
5. Milder cam to get rid of gear rattle
6. Softer and chamfered brake pads to get rid of squeal

The current poll shows Silver at or ahead of Red in color choice, which in my mind shrieks "conservative", i.e. would also consider BMW, Porsche, Mercedes instead (the classic silver cars).

Our local club was polled and over 50% are more interested in show 'n shine than performance driving events. Understandable, since performance driving has many risks and more wear and tear on the cars. I sure have torn up cars on track and often kick myself for it.

No criticism, just an observation, but the demographics of Viper buyers are such that image, comfort, and less "outrageous clown shoe styling" probably appeal to a broader market and the "softer" car is more likely to draw upon persons who would otherwise buy the Porsche, BMW, Mercedes. After all, if you don't actually track drive the car, you can point to sticker price, race heritage (which isn't really the same as the street car, but no one seems to know or care), published performance numbers, and the subjective feel of the car on the street. Plus, to be honest, you can't use even the current performance anywhere but on track.

Don't get me wrong, I have ordered the new car (in Red), and the numbers indicate that it should whomp up on the old car. As soon as it is broken in, it goes to the track to compare lap times with my GTS and older RT/10. If it is slower, it is gone. If it is faster, it is a keeper (and it sure looks to be much quicker). For me, form follows function and the car better have a LOT of extra go, as I can't say I prefer the styling over my old RT/10.

At least there is not an automatic transmission option (yet). When that comes, it better be coupled with the gold chain option, too (unless the rare disabled driver needs the option, but then I'd rather see a SMG like the new M3).

Overall, I think we have no one to blame but ourselves for the ever-softening of the car. Overall, it is what we said we wanted, I am afraid.

Remember, for every non-performance item about which we complain, the resulting softening, or doo-dad, or whatever, takes away time and money from the go-fast budget.

Flame on!

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

Very well said Keith. I still laugh at current owners, who drive "creature comfort" Viper's, that bash the new one for offering what THEY have supported?

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

I changed the link in the original post so that you should be able to read the entire article. Interesting indeed! Now, do you suppose he (Lutz) will provide the customary "Ode to a Viper" at this year's VOI? Me thinks not...

Chris

 

[Janni]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

Did we really expect Lutz to say "Dayum! That is one FINE looking ride! Why didn't I stay at D-C so I could have been a part in THAT?"

Of course not. Bob is going to be his typical opinionated self, with a little extra ego thrown in there because this is such a change to a design that he had such a large part in shaping. So, ANY departure from the existing car was not going to make him happy since HE was not a part of it. Make sense???

And oh, a couple of more things - he's obviously pushing hte envelope at GM, so methinks he wouldn't praise the competition if in fact he has it in his sights for the Corvette... And lastly, Bob oohhing and aaaahhing over a car doesn't make as good press as the comments we see here. He's a master - the writer's love him - don't you think he plays to that just a little???????

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

The "ode to Viper" is a good question, and one that is being addressed now. Since he is the Honorary Chairman of the VCA, he is STILL a part of this family.

Janni, when Bob was at Chrysler he had no problem giving the competition compliments. In 98 he commented on how the VW bug was the "best in show", and he knew then that the PT was on the way. He also had no trouble telling Wolfgang at this years show how impressed he was with the majority of the DC concept vehicles. If Bob was a fan I can confidently say that he would have told everyone that he liked it. Besides, last year at the Viper unveiling, he then made is dissatisfaction on the new Viper known, and that was way before he had a noting that he was going to GM.

 

[Y2K10 SRT#39]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

I'll miss "ode to Viper" at VOI 7

 

[King GTS]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

I think as long as Hennessey, TNT, Levin, BTR, etc.. are in business, the Viper will always be fast. I've never been too concerned with what the power will be from the factory because I would've never bought it to keep it Bone Stock anyway. So I don't think the new Viper will be 'exploiting' too many of the past version Vipers. I mean I'm sure there out there, but who really buys a Viper & does ABSOLUTELY nothing to it? Will the new Viper be fast? Heck ya! Faster than any in Texas? Hell no!
My only concern is the way it looks. I mean who knows, when the hard top comes out on it, it may look totally different. But for now, I agree w/ Mr Lutz whole heartedly. And that's just my opinion. Not trying to agitate anyone who's buying the new car, just stating how I personally feel about it.

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

King, I guess I fall into that group that does "absolutely nothing" to their Viper. And to tell you the truth, I still love it that way.

 

[King GTS]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

And there's absolutley nothing wrong w/ that Steve!

I knew there were some owners like you out there. I can't explain why I want it to be quicker & quicker but even w/ no mods the car is Awesome!

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

Let's not say goodbye to the "ode" just yet.

 

[VEETENN]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

BOB LUTZ IS RIGHT! "They should have kept it looking like an outrageous high-performance sports car". The new SRT will be a great performer but for me performance must go along with a great look for a street legal car. I'm hopeful Dodge will get the "look" back when the coupe comes out.

 

[King GTS]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

I agree 100%!! But based on what a lot of members said on the other thread I started (SRT/10 = Thumbs Down!!!) they'll be no Coupe! I for one can't understand why they wouldn't put out a coupe, being that the GTS has outsold the RT/10 2-1 since its inception, but everyone is so adamant that they won't build it.

 

[Russ Oasis]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

OK guys. Lutz is a guy who calls it as he sees it. If he liked the SRT-10, he would say so. And Steve, to blame the "softening looks" on drivers who want a top that doesn't leak or a better stereo, is looking to the wrong place. I think that the creature comforts that have been added are to make the car more driveable on a daily basis....NOT to make it look like an NSX or Camaro. The numbers speak for themselves. The VAST MAJORITY of Viper loyalists don't like the way the new car looks. Yes, I ordered one. I'm faithful to the Snake. But we need to be honest among ourselves. Not a whole bunch of Snake drivers like the new design. Let's get back to the outrageous "cartoon" look. The unmistakeable "there's a Viper" look of the original RT-10 and GTS. I don't hear anybody complaining about the front or new hood design, but from the doors back.....What WERE they thinking when they approved this design? There were so many incredibly outrageous variations we could have had.
And thank you DC for the CC. I got the news that I'm getting one of the first 25. I can't wait to get mine and race it in the VRL.

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

Russ, I bought a Viper because of the raw back to basic attributes. I have never looked at a Viper as an "everyday" driver, so maybe you can understand why I have always been against ANY evolution of what I have. Case in point, the GTS just did not bleed Viper to me. It was comfortable, no leaks, air, adjustable pedals, something you could drive more easily than the RT/10. So when the time came to choose between an RT/10 and a GTS it was a no brainer for ME. Now are the GTS owners a different breed? In my eyes yes. They are people who enjoy driving their Vipers on a more frequent basis, and they obviously love having the creature comforts. Are they wrong? Hell no, this is what they like, so they should be able to buy it. Have I sat here for 6 years bashing them for their choice? No, I love the fact that the Viper community is becoming more and more diversified.

Now do I like the SRT/10? When I compare it to MY RT/10 it is astounding how much more aggressive the new one looks TOO ME! Will it replace my RT/10? As the GTS did not, neither will any car with a DEAD PEDAL. Does this car have a place in my garage? Hell yes, it offerers even more than a GTS. I get to use it everyday I want, with all and more comfort than the GTS, plus I get the added bonus of MORE performance!

I did not buy my first Viper based on looks? NO, but rather for the fact that it was something that NO ONE ELSE HAD, A crazy concept with no practicality. To ME, that is what Viper is. I am sorry that many of you feel different, and that I don't see it as you do, but my opinion will not alter. Should those that LIKE the SRT/10 have to defend their right to like/love it? No more so than anyone who prefers a GTS to an RT/10.

This is a new addition to our family. It's time you start treating as such. And just so everyone can relax on the "Lutz" thing, he had his chance to give us a wild Viper, but it was his VETO that made the flock move away from the wild mid-engine theme, to a real convertible one. It simply came down to what they felt embodied the Viper spirit more, a True convertible or a Mid-engine Version?

Off my soap box, and probable drowning.

 

[Frank Parise]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

I know, I know, Lutz is an icon. Lutz is the reason why we have Viper. I know, I know. I've read as much about Viper histroy as the next guy and I've even had personal correspondence with Bob in the past. He's a very likable guy and a role model in the business.

I love Lutz, his style, his guts, even his poetry. I'm sure we hold a very special place in his heart and he does with us as well.

BUT...as charismatic a guy as Lutz is, I don't believe a guy in his position with GM should be the honorary chairman of the VCA! Dude....he's on the other team! That's, like, really offensive Dude! Think about it.

Whether he owns a Viper or not, he is now legally responsible to act in the best interest of the GM shareholders, and that definitely means it must be at the expense of DC, Ford, and all other competition. He's getting paid big bucks to make sure among other things that the Viper legend remains just that..a piece of the past.

It's now in his personal best interest to slam the new Viper in every way he can. He realizes how influential his quotes are. He'd like nothing more than to see all 10,000 of us retreat over to the bowtie club and spend our big bucks with GM.

Times have changed. We need a new hero for the new era. Meet John Fernandez. Take a closer look at the Competition Coupe. In my opinion the CC is far more outrageous and far more impressive looking than any Viper from the past. Be patient and wait for the next street coupe.

Let's move on. Adios Bob.

WAR CHEVY, WAR LUTZ, WAR POETRY

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

Frank, you might want to send that motion to a board meeting. I doubt all will feel the same, but who knows? The position is only in name, and Bob has never attended a VCA business meeting, but John has been asked to hold the Team Viper board position and has declined (this was before there was a PVO though).

 

[BobK898]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

I agree with Lutz as goes the current convertible edition, but if they produce the GTS-R concept, I think he would be hard pressed not to be complimentary. The new styling does not cut it for me on the convertible but the coupe looks fantastic.

 

[Gary Lashinsky]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

How many of you have seen the new 2003 Viper in person? I was a bit dissapointed with the photo's in the car mags. but after a close up one hour look at the car last year in Detroit, I was impressed. Everything we asked for we got! You won't be dissapointed! Put a hardtop on it and WOW!

 

[Hisser]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

Sorry but the 2003 *****. They can have them all for all I care. I am sure the performance is better but they really screwed up on the design. WHIMP CAR

 

[ewave]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

Wayne,

I agree with you. I do have one question though: If you think it ***** so much, why are you using the 2003 SRT-10 logo for your avatar?(!)

 

[remster]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

that's a big faux-pas, but that logo looks nice, so what's the big deal?

 

[Mike Brunton]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

Wayne,

You know, that's a really good way to make friends in the club, and to improve inter-Viper relations by saying the "CAR *****" and is a "WHIMP CAR" (sic).

Perhaps you could be a little more eloquent next time and say you don't like it without insulting everyone who purchased one. From your comments, you don't seem like the kind of person I'd like to hang out with at Viper events - I'd infer that I wouldn't be welcome at "Viper events" based on your words.

There are lots of people who don't like the car - to each his own - but it takes a bit of a mongoloid to hurl insults at the owners of the new car - especially when we are all ONE CLUB.

 

[King GTS]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

I feel sorry for the dealer that's marking up his 01's & 02's over $10,000 when 01's are being sold for as low as $68,000 now. Not a very smart business man.

All I can say about the SRT is that I hope the GTS version is just being kept under 'raps'. I personally feel it's coming and that the silence is just a marketing ploy. After all, they do have to sell the remaining 01 & 02 GTS's, and if we all knew that a GTS version was coming out that looked identical to the car that's been at all the car shows.......well I don't think too many people would want the current GTS's.

I think we're all in for a real big surprise! *mark my words*

 

[MW]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

<FONT COLOR="Red">Think I'll just keep my "old" (ha) RT/10 and GTS for the same bucks! Still enjoying doing things to and with them. The Competion Coupe may be the exception but will be unobtainable for a good while to a regular guy. The SRT Viper does not evoke the same emotions from me. I like the SRT-10 Ram better! </FONT c>

 

[gtsviper]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

Bob Lutz didn't like the original Viper when he first saw it. So what does that say? See the quote in the Whiners Forum from his book. Moderators...we really need the new Whiners Forum for these guys.

 

[MichaelP]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

Have seen it in person and you are right. The squared off door cutout looks like a Mustang.

 

[shifter]

Re: Bob Lutz Gives\"Thumbs Down\" to the SRT/10!!!!!

A cup holder and a tape deck. Doesn't that tell all?