SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
if it was a recall and an early dec '03 it may have been the valve recall
Bought a used Viper, with an unpleasant surprise!!!!
- Thread starter Fadi
- Start date
If it was an early dec '03 (2004 model) it would have been the cam-bolt Technical Service Bulletin. Mine was included (but not affected). If memory serves me correctly:
Loose bolt was known to unscrew, initially resulting in damage to the valve train (dealer replaced valves?). If bolt completely unscrewed, it would drop in the motor (new motor).
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
look at the tag inside the driver door it will have your build date on it
Cobra4B
Enthusiast
Fadi I hope you get this all squared away... take that dodge service director up on his offer and see exactly what was done to the car and why.
OK, here is the final word after intensive research.
The D19 recalls apply to all cars that have a build date through January 31st, 2004. Since my car was built in December of 2003, it obviously needed to get the recall work done.
Looking at the VIP history of the car, there is NO SHOWING of any recall work done at all, even prior to the new motor that was installed by DCX. On March 2nd, 2004, DCX repurchased the car and put a whole new motor in the car. So, why would they put a whole new motor in the car, especially when the recall repair link provided above for code D19 stated "The camshaft sprocket retaining bolts must be tightened to the proper specification"?? Well, that is because the original owner never got the D19 recall done on the car, and the motor failed. Thus, DCX replaced it.
The motor failing is a damage, and by the Michigan Automobile Dealer Association (MADA), a dealer is obligated to inform the buyer of any damages that are worth 5% of the MSRP of the car. Well, we all know that the Viper motor is well beyond 5% of the msrp, yet, nothing was disclosed to me at the time of the purchase.
Also, there appears to be some kind of an odometer fraud (I guess you can call it that). Since the engine was replaced at 250 miles, that would mean that the engine actually has 250 less miles than what the odometer advertises on the day of purchase. On the odometer sheet, it stated 5501 miles, but it should have been 5501-250.
So, there you have it. I am going to speak to the dealer on Monday, and tell them I don't want this car and demand a refund. If they don't comply, I will take this matter to court. I will be looking to get into another Viper.
Thanks for all the help, and I will keep you all updated.
The D19 recalls apply to all cars that have a build date through January 31st, 2004. Since my car was built in December of 2003, it obviously needed to get the recall work done.
Looking at the VIP history of the car, there is NO SHOWING of any recall work done at all, even prior to the new motor that was installed by DCX. On March 2nd, 2004, DCX repurchased the car and put a whole new motor in the car. So, why would they put a whole new motor in the car, especially when the recall repair link provided above for code D19 stated "The camshaft sprocket retaining bolts must be tightened to the proper specification"?? Well, that is because the original owner never got the D19 recall done on the car, and the motor failed. Thus, DCX replaced it.
The motor failing is a damage, and by the Michigan Automobile Dealer Association (MADA), a dealer is obligated to inform the buyer of any damages that are worth 5% of the MSRP of the car. Well, we all know that the Viper motor is well beyond 5% of the msrp, yet, nothing was disclosed to me at the time of the purchase.
Also, there appears to be some kind of an odometer fraud (I guess you can call it that). Since the engine was replaced at 250 miles, that would mean that the engine actually has 250 less miles than what the odometer advertises on the day of purchase. On the odometer sheet, it stated 5501 miles, but it should have been 5501-250.
So, there you have it. I am going to speak to the dealer on Monday, and tell them I don't want this car and demand a refund. If they don't comply, I will take this matter to court. I will be looking to get into another Viper.
Thanks for all the help, and I will keep you all updated.
LW VIPER
Enthusiast
Up to you, of course, but you might want to rethink this. My 03 had the valve recall when Steve owned it, and while they were doing the valve work, they threw in porting and polishing, and the engine came out with better tolerances, more horsepower and torque per the dyno runs, and was bulletproof.
Many engines that were replaced were replaced with Arrow built engines which by all accounts are excellent, better than new from stock. You might want to find out if your engine is an Arrow engine, which I believe makes your car better, and possibly your resale later.
But then, I'm a Testarossa driver, so what would I know?
Up to you, of course, but you might want to rethink this. My 03 had the valve recall when Steve owned it, and while they were doing the valve work, they threw in porting and polishing, and the engine came out with better tolerances, more horsepower and torque per the dyno runs, and was bulletproof.
Many engines that were replaced were replaced with Arrow built engines which by all accounts are excellent, better than new from stock. You might want to find out if your engine is an Arrow engine, which I believe makes your car better, and possibly your resale later.
But then, I'm a Testarossa driver, so what would I know?
Is there any way I am able to find out if the engine that is replaced is an Arrow rebuild or not? How can I tell?
As far as dyno, my car did 437/475 stock, so notihng out of the ordinary
The odometer, by LAW, reflects the mileage on the car and not the engine. Where did you get that line???
As to disclosure, I am not aware of requirements for a buy-back if it is not the first repurchase. But the requirement you stated above was clearly intended for body or paint damage for cars sold as new. Read it again. Doesn't apply to your "damage" or to a used car.
You are sounding more and more like a person with buyers remorse. If so sell it and take your lumps. If not move on. You bought a used car with over 5000 miles on it. That had the engine replaced 5000 miles ago. The warranty history was available when you bought it (meaning the dealer could have shown you the warranty history if you asked).
In the end I feel for you but I do not agree with your legal perspective. Maybe if you hire Feiger!
As to disclosure, I am not aware of requirements for a buy-back if it is not the first repurchase. But the requirement you stated above was clearly intended for body or paint damage for cars sold as new. Read it again. Doesn't apply to your "damage" or to a used car.
You are sounding more and more like a person with buyers remorse. If so sell it and take your lumps. If not move on. You bought a used car with over 5000 miles on it. That had the engine replaced 5000 miles ago. The warranty history was available when you bought it (meaning the dealer could have shown you the warranty history if you asked).
In the end I feel for you but I do not agree with your legal perspective. Maybe if you hire Feiger!
grayman
Enthusiast
Agree w/ GR8ASP. 1st, odometer disclosure applies to vehicle, not the engine. Car could of had 100 engines, and odometer is that the vehicle itself has travelled. 2nd, disclosure applies to damage (i.e. accident), not recall or manufacturer replacements. I could be wrong, but I dont believe you have a legal leg to stand on. While definitely questionably moral if the dealer knew of the replacement, I dont think he was legally required to disclose it.
Agree with both of the above. Sounds bad, but the fact that you finally found a dealer willing to let you drive the car may have been a clue.
The fact that parts are missing on the car (cat hangers)though, gives you recourse from a safety stand point.
The fact that parts are missing on the car (cat hangers)though, gives you recourse from a safety stand point.
Hoosier Daddy
Enthusiast
CARFAX should have mentioned factory buyback (Lemon law). Don't these buy backs also come without a warranty?
prosthogod
Enthusiast
My question is, what are you trying to achieve. If you want to reurn the car , then based on all this info it would probably happen. If you don't, then this whole thread is useless banter. not to be rude. Just drive it like you stole it and then if it breaks- go talk to the dealer who sold it to you. My .02
zen garage
Enthusiast
Carfax does not show everything. There was an 04 that ran through auction today that was disclosed as a lemon law car and carfax clearly showed the lemon law buyback. However a few months ago there was another car I watched at auction that was a buyback for engine rebuild that carfax showed no problem. In fact carfax still showed the original owner.
edretti
Enthusiast
Sorry to all for lack of reply from last week. Been out of town. Pm's have been sent.
Eddie
Eddie
Quick update:
The dealer, by law, HAD TO DISCLOSE to me that it was indeed a factory buyback, REGARDLESS if they knew or not. If they did not know, that is their problem, not mine.
After two months of dealing with the dealer and lawyer, I returned the car today and got a full refund...
Now, it is time to go car shopping again. This is the fun part..
Thanks everyone for the help/input.
Fadi
Lee00blacksilverGTS
Enthusiast
It seems you won the battle, congrats. Interesting comment about dealing with the lawyer. Not familiar with how these deals work. You got the full refund, did the lawyer take a big chunk of it?
The lawyer took $1,500 from me initially, which I will get back within the next week from him. So ultimately, nothing came out of my pocket and I was still able to return the car with a full refund..
(the refund being the downpayment I put on the car at the beginning of the purchase and the loan off my name)EllowViper
Enthusiast
...plus you got the use of a Viper for "free" for many months (less gas/maintenance/insurance..etc). Not sure how to compute the lost value of your time/aggrevation...but what the hey, pretty good outcome given the **** sandwiche that you had to eat.
zen garage
Enthusiast
Hell, I rent Dodge Stratus' for 800 a month. I figure two months in a Viper is worth at least 3g.
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