draining the cooling system

[caj98GTS]

Tomorrow is tear down day! In order to fix the blown head gasket problem I am going to tear down the top end of motor so I can get the heads off and get them over to Greg Good and let him work his magic on them before putting new gaskets on!

I obviously need to drain the cooling system. The radiator drain plug appears to be a simple hex/allen wrench type plug. However, the block drain plugs have me a little confused. First of all, I am assuming that they are the two, fairly flat plugs located on the flat/horizontal surface of the block right behind the exhaust manifold merger prior to the v-band clamp???? If these are the right plugs, they look like they are a square drive type bolt. Is that square drive set up for a 1/4 or 3/8 in socket drive? If not, what size tool/square drive device do I use to get these things out?

Thanks for the help.

 

[VPRVENM97]

Yep, those are the ones. 3/8" socket drive. Make sure you wear eye protection cause you're gonna get wet.

 

[caj98GTS]

Dave - thanks for confirming my suspicions and thanks for the tip. Given how much "fluid" (oil/coolant mix that was the color of Bailey's Irish Cream) came out of my oil pan last night I am not too sure I have much cooolant left in the system at all!

 

[Simms]

Don't use the drain plug on your radiator. They tend to be tight and many have torn the radiator trying to get them loose. Just yang the bottom hose to drain.

 

[caj98GTS]

Thanks Simms. Great suggestion.

By the way, any ideas on how to flush the crankcase to get the rest of crud out? I thought about fogging the cylinders once I get the heads off. What about the radiator - I might as well flush it why I have it apart.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Before you pull hoses off...you might consider flushing system with 25-30 gallons of distilled water...that amount usually gives me clear flush at the end, noting that I do not flush with a hose system, just multiple fillings and drainings. Don't forget to clean out the overflow bottle in the fascia.

 

[Viper Wizard]

Clay,
Ian is right, DO NOT TOUCH THE DRAIN ON THE RADIATOR!! Just pull your lower radiator hose.

To clean the block, your going to have to remove a couple of the core plugs to get every thing out.

If your block is going to be without heads for an extended period of time or your going to turn your motor over without heads, you'll need to bolt down the sleeves so they don't move! I have what we call "dog bones" that bolt down between the cylinders to keep them from moving. If you want, give me your fax# and I'll fax you a tracing of them and you can make your own.

 

[caj98GTS]

Thanks Chuck and Steve. I doubt I will turn the motor over at all while the heads are off - I should have them back in 1 weeks time. Thanks for the offer to fax the template.

I will definitely go pick up some distilled water to do some purging.

Chuck - with respect to cleaning the rest of the oil/coolant crap out of the bottom end of the motor, would it be OK to take off the oil pan and use some kind of fogging oil spray to try and spray down the crank, etc? I do not want to do anything that is unneccessary or harmful to the engine but at the same time I hate leaving any residue of that stuff in there. Any suggestions?

 

[VPRVENM97]

Chuck - with respect to cleaning the rest of the oil/coolant crap out of the bottom end of the motor, would it be OK to take off the oil pan and use some kind of fogging oil spray to try and spray down the crank, etc? I do not want to do anything that is unneccessary or harmful to the engine but at the same time I hate leaving any residue of that stuff in there. Any suggestions?

That's a good question. I would at the very least take the oil pan off and drain the oil cooler. After putting everything back together and replacing all the fluids, spin the engine without the spark plugs in it just to get the oil circulating before actually starting it. Once started, let it heat up to normal temp then shut it down and change out the oil and oil filter.

I'm sure Chuck will jump in with the correct answer.

Also, while you're at it, order a set of silicone radiator hoses with the bleeder valve from Sean Roe. Makes bleeding air out of the system so much easier.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Clay, the REAL question in the back of my mind was whether you had oil in the coolant (in addition to the coolant in the oil)...and if so, how would the experts advise you to flush the cooling system...and with what...and when (now and any other time ???).

Good luck, please let us know your progress !!

 

[caj98GTS]

Steve - you and I think alike. I am anxiously going to watch the coolant come out of the block and cooling system to see if there is anything other than water/coolant. Hopefully all is fine and the oil stayed below the head surface. We shall see. Stay tuned!

 

[Viper Wizard]

Chuck - with respect to cleaning the rest of the oil/coolant crap out of the bottom end of the motor, would it be OK to take off the oil pan and use some kind of fogging oil spray to try and spray down the crank, etc? I do not want to do anything that is unneccessary or harmful to the engine but at the same time I hate leaving any residue of that stuff in there. Any suggestions?

That's a good question. I would at the very least take the oil pan off and drain the oil cooler. After putting everything back together and replacing all the fluids, spin the engine without the spark plugs in it just to get the oil circulating before actually starting it. Once started, let it heat up to normal temp then shut it down and change out the oil and oil filter.

I'm sure Chuck will jump in with the correct answer.

Also, while you're at it, order a set of silicone radiator hoses with the bleeder valve from Sean Roe. Makes bleeding air out of the system so much easier.

All good!
I would, after it comes up to temp, drain the cooling system again. Fluids are cheap at this point!

As for your sleeves: When I said "extended period of time" I ment more then ONE HOUR!
But what do I know, last week I couldn't spell "mer-can-ick now I R 1".

 

[Viper Wizard]

Clay, You have a fax.
If you need anything else, don't hesitate to call.

 

[Steve-Indy]

THANKS for the info, Chuck...I always appreciate your expertise...and, HAPPY HOLIDAYS !!!

 

[caj98GTS]

Here is the update: First off, thanks to all of your tips...especially Chuck - it is really refreshing to have a guy step up, help you out and he does so knowing that I am 200 miles away from his dealership!

Spent about 2 hours on Wednesday evening getting things ready for the tear down. Drained all the fluids (by the way, the coolant was crystal clear green with no sign of oil), removed the airbox and windshield cowl. On Thursday AM a buddy of mine came over and we dug in. 5 1/2 hours later the heads were off, all the parts were inventoried and marked in individual baggies. I could not see any obvious breaches in the gaskets but from what I understand that is normal. After the dismantling I set out on making some retainers for the cylinder sleeves as suggested by Chuck. Instead of using the Dodge made dog bone retainers, I used two 2" strips of angle iron per side, drilled out to fit the head bolt pattern. Went to the hardware store, picked up some short 1/2 bolts and bolted the pieces of angle iron down to the top of the cylinder heads. So, now I am off to drop the heads off to Greg Good - hopefully in a week they come back blocked, ported/polished, with stronger springs and retaining clips, and a valve job!

All in all it has not been too difficult of a project so far. Time consuming and tough on the back yes! Patience, clear thinking, and the right tools go a long way.

Stay tuned.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Glad to hear that the coolant was clear !

You be BAD !!!

 

[Tom Sessions]

if you did find anything with the head gaskets and you had a crankcase full of coolant I would also pull the timing cover off of the front of the engine.If the timing cover gasket fails it will dump coolant into the oil pan and make you think you lost a head gasket.Somewhat common on the earlier gen 2 engines.Also you may want to look at your bearings.Antifreeze and bearings don't play well together.If you have alot of miles on the car it would be well worth it to install a new set of rod and main bearings while its down.Good luck.

 

[caj98GTS]

Tom - any way to pinpoint the timing cover gasket other than taking it off? When the timing cover gasket fails does the car produce tons of smoke? As funny as this sounds I am praying it was just the head gasket, I am not too sure how much more I want to break down!

As usual, thanks for the input and suggestions.

 

[Tom Sessions]

the timing cover gasket won't blow smoke.It just fills the crankcase with water.With the heads off the car you can't check the gasket.With the heads and oil pan off it doesn't take long to pull the timing cover off.Much easier now than later.

 

[Viper Wizard]

Clay, Tom is right! Your in it this deep, it's no big deal to take off the timing cover now [gaskets are cheap!]. "I always feel better when I can put my finger on the culprit!" Keep us posted.