First Viper track excursion

[MtHam ACR]

Drove Laguna Seca last Friday in the Viper for the first time. The car is 100% stock, I haven't done any mods because I wanted to see what was there. I've heard the comments on the brakes, but I really had no clue how bad they were -- sort of a surprising decision by DC for the caliber of this car.

Now Laguna has a reputation for eating brakes, but I fadded the brakes my on my third time through turn five. It was really unfortunate because this gave me the ******* about my brand new car, and I consequently spent the rest of the day trying to figure out how not to boil the fluid. New pads and a better brake fluid are definitely on the short list before Thunderhill Mar 9-10. What pads and fluid do you track guys with the stock calipersr recommend? (A complete brake upgrade, like stoptech, is not considered right now, I want to learn what is there before I go changing everything out.)

The other beef was the peddal placement -- the throttle is very high in relation to the brake peddal. What are you track guys doing about heel/toe braking? I could kinda roll the foot to get a blip, but it sure wasn't what I am used to -- my Cobra had optimal peddal placement where the brake (under pressure) and throttle were about the same height. Worse on the Viper side is wearing the linings; the brake peddal sinks lower throughout the day.

Other than those two issues the car was a blast. Visibility is better than I expected (around the A pillar), and the handling is pretty dam* phenominal on the stock pilot sports. The adhesion was at least as good as the Cobra on track tires, but then we haven't fully explored the envelope on the viper due to the brake issue. The seats and harnesses are a big plus.

I do think a set of race tires/wheels is in order, the fronts were starting to see some scaloping after 100 miles of track time. What's the hot-setup on 18" race wheels and rubber? Is hoosier the only tire out there?

Eric

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I've been using Motul fluid, I'm switching to Castrol (Thanks Janni).

I've had Porsche air deflectors. Some people have had success with them. I haven't. Maybe because my car is lowered, I dunno. You can get air inlet ducts from Napa, etc. for $10 - $15 apiece and tie strap them in place. I've got two on each side.

 

[Gavin]

Your brake fluid is shot
Replace it with Motul 600
Pedal lowering issue will "fade away"

Next - call Rich Bontempi and order a set of Porsche cooling ducts (650) 364-6234 - they are cheap - put them on yourself with nylon ties.

Log on to www.roeracing.com - order a set of deflectors - these are plexi gizmos that **** air through the wheel.

You are now ready for Laguna Seca - if brakes are fading after this you are on them too much!

You don't need the after market upgrades to run and have reliable brakes - YET!
Gavin

 

[99 R/T 10]

Hey Chuck,
Is that the same castrol brake fluid I get at Advanced Auto? What did Janni say about Castrol?

Mike

 

[Joe Dozzo]

Castrol SRF brake fluid. About $70/liter, but the best stuff out there.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wilddude:
Hey Chuck,
Is that the same castrol brake fluid I get at Advanced Auto? What did Janni say about Castrol?

Mike

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Janni is the m...uh, Janni knows what she's talkin' about. What Joe said, Castrol SRF. I doubt you'll find it at a typical auto store. I've managed to boil Motul.

 

[SoCal Rebell]

Stock fluid is noooo good. I boiled mine at Willow Springs a track known to be comparativly easy on brakes. Here's what I did:

-Castrol SRF brake fluid
-Brakeman 3 pads (great track pads & good for street driving also)
-Porsche air defectors (cheap and effective)

There is no feeling worse the boiling your fluid and finding out going into a hard corner. I just bought a full 4 wheel Stoptech system for peace of mind.

From what I have learned lately about race tires the hot setup is 18 x 12 front and 17 x 13 rear with Hoosiers. I guess John Purner is the man for these. You may also want to consider baffling your oil pan if you go to slicks.

 

[MtHam ACR]

Thanks for the input all. I ran Castrol in my Cobra and was pretty happy with it. Air deflectors are a good idea, though I never needed them with the cobra -- I'm going to take it one step at a time, but will keep them on the short list.

Any thoughts on peddals or are you guys living with them?

Eric

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

A couple of quick questions, and a couple of comments. When you say you need some new race tires, do you mean Michelin or Hoosier? If you elect to go with Hoosier ( the only two legal tires for Viper Days are Michelin and Hoosier ) , it should be pointed out that you will have to run in the Unlimited Class. Alot of fun, but most drivers have a ton of upgrades in that class. The Michelins will last longer and you can run in alot more classes. John Purner is a good guy, but I would sure suggest you consider staying with 18's all the way around. Most of the drivers that went with the 18/17 combo had the 98 or prior years.
There is alot of controversy about what works best, but none that John makes a good wheel. It comes down to most folks having two sets of rims, and the back-ups fit the same tires, which gives you more flexibility for tire or equipment failures.Best of luck and hope to see you at the track.

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Did you have new brake fluid before you went to the track?

 

[RockyTop]

Per the suggestion of GTS Dean, I am now using AP 600 brake fluid. It is A LOT cheaper than SRF. Something like $10.00 a bottle. I have repeatedly boiled Motul 600 (which ain'ty a bad fluid), but have not done so to the AP 600. You can get it through Essex Parts Services right here in GA. Their number is (770) 889-4096. Ask for Scott (tell him Rocky with the Viper sent ya), he's very knowledgeable on the subject of brakes and has helped me sort out my Viper brake woes. I have the Porsche deflectors, but am not sold on thier effectiveness. Any suggestions on ducting routing will be gladly accepted.

As far as your heel-toe issue. I found I could not heel toe my car either. SVS sells a gizmo that permits you to independently move your accelerator in and out to acheive the desired pedal height. Further, either the brake pedal or the accelerator or both have a bit of side to side adjustment capability. The combination of the SVS pedal gizmo and some adjustment of the brake and accelerator pedals closer to one another has completely done the trick. My heel toe technique is not a true "heel-toe." Since they moved the accelerator to the far right side and away from the middle where it used to be on really old race cars (hence the term heel-toe), many drivers use the same technique I do. Place the left portion of your my right foot on the brake with the right side of that foot overlapping the accelerator and then just roll your foot sideways and to the right by moving your right knee directly to the right. Try it on the street once you get the pedals set like you want them. Real racers left foot brake thus smoothing the changes in car balance in the transition from throttle to brake and back to throttle. Then again, they don't have to mess with clutches with those paddle/sequential shifters!

 

[Tom Glenn]

Eric, For brake pads I use EBC Yellows in the front and EBC Greens in the rear. The greater coefficient of friction on the Grrens improves the lack of rear braking and the heat tolerance of the yellows works well in the front. I use this setup on street, autocross and Viper Days events with excellent results. You can get them at greatbrakes.com for about 1/2 the price of any other pad.

 

[Henry Cone]

The search feature is a great asset for finding the answer to questions like this....

Check out the information in brake fluids in this previous thread from this message board..

http://vca1.viperclub.org/ubb/Forum14/HTML/008134.html

As Janni said in this thread we use Castrol SRF... And we don't have money oozing out of every pore. The best brake fluid is cheaper than the alternative...

 

[99 R/T 10]

I just got back from my local speed shop(let me stress the local part) and they had no Castrol SRF. I assume this is a synthetic, and it is a DOT 3/4. The speed shop had a different brand(synthetic/high temp) that had wet boiling point of 302 and a high dry boiling point of 502. Chuck said he had boiled the Motul, what is it's boiling point? Or are they all a DOT 5 brake fluid and am I off base on this? An education is needed, thanks,

Mike

 

[Ulysses]

Heel and Toe: I've been learning to keep the upper part of my foot on the throttle and the heel on the brake. Kind of a weird rotation but it works.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Key note..............stay away from Synthetic!!!! The car comes with Dot 3, and most folks go to Dot 4 Brakeman, Motul or other brands. Castrol SRF is getting harder to find, but you should be able to find at Archer Racing Accessories - (218) 727-4806. The reason most fluids boil occasionally with our Snakes is inadequate cooling. The best fix is brake ducting ( do not bother going through the driving light area with hoses as the air does not flow in , but around this area) and/or a brake recirculation system. Another interesting note for the ABS cars, is that some guys/gals are using Porsche Air Deflectors in the rear, as the new ABS system with larger rear calipers seems to generate more rear brake heat -- neat idea and not very expensive.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

A lot of good advise.

Want to know about brake fluid go to http://members.rennlist.com/911pcars/brakefluid.htm

Want your car to brake at Laguna Seca without boiling the brakes follow Gavin' advise and call Bontempi for a fluid change and deflectors.

Join us in March at Viper Days at Thunderhill for a great time.

 

[MtHam ACR]

Bill Pemberton wrote <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When you say you need some new race tires, do you mean Michelin or Hoosier? If you elect to go with Hoosier ( the only two legal tires for Viper Days are Michelin and Hoosier ) , it should be pointed out that you will have to run in the Unlimited Class. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Bill, I don't want to mislead -- I'm into opentracking (opposed to competing). Was considering the hoosiers because that's all I've seen in the way of the 18s.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It comes down to most folks having two sets of rims, and the back-ups fit the same tires, which gives you more flexibility for tire or equipment failures.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't agree more. I'm actually looking at finding another set of street rims and using the BBS wheels for the track.

Steve Ferguson wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Did you have new brake fluid before you went to the track? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As new as reasonable - the car had about 1400 miles on it at the time, and this was its first real excersize of the brakes.

Thanks again, all. As I say I'm just learning this car -- overall, I really am very pleased with it. Hope to meet you locals at Viperdays.

Eric