1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Gen 2 to Gen 4 Engine Modification

Discussion in 'RT/10 and GTS Discussions' started by NI-KA, Jul 13, 2013.

  1. NI-KA

    NI-KA Enthusiast

    Posts:
    723
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Location:
    Canton, Ohio
    I wanted to share the engine build on my 1997 GTS. Just thought others might be interested.

    The engine had been consuming a lot of oil. That with a frustrating vibration at around 1250 RPM which became noticeable after installing the woodhouse poly mounts finally convinced me to have the engine pulled and sent to Arrow Racing Engines.

    photo (1).jpg

    I did explore buying a used engine / bottom end to replace mine. I have not had particularly great success in purchasing used so even after finding a couple of possible candidates I opted for having the engine torn down and checked out. I couldn't bring myself to take the risk of buying a problem instead of a solution.

    As it turned out the engine bottom end had a "few" problems: :omg:
    a couple of rod bearings down to the copper
    the crank was damaged and beyond repair
    the cylinder walls were heavily glazed
    and the oil pump/front cover was shot
    at least the engine is numbers matching to the car :smirk:


    So while the bottom end is getting built back to stock performance a set of GEN IV heads will be going on the engine as well.
    :D

    The bottom end will be primarily stock. A slight overbore to deal with the heavy cylinder wall glazing and a stock crank. There will also be updated main bearings which are the biggest thing to help out with the
    oiling of the rod bearings.

    Bearing Back Feed.jpg

    Naturally, all of this was very frustrating to discover and is really frustrating for my wife. She really enjoys going cruising :drive: in the Viper and the down time on this is not fun for either of us.
     
  2. troublemaker

    troublemaker Enthusiast

    Posts:
    487
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2010
    Location:
    The land of two incarcerated Governors
    Please keep the updates coming. There is a whole lot of work to adapt the Gen4 top end to the Gen2 bottom end so it will be interesting to watch the progress.
     
  3. Bugman Jeff

    Bugman Jeff Enthusiast

    Posts:
    229
    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Question: why is the crank beyond repair? Race shops and rebuilders have been welding and regrinding crank journals for 75 years now, My local engine machine shop charges around $100 a journal to do it these days. Heck, the crank is my Hemi was welded and offset ground a full 5/8". Is there something special about the Viper crank that keeps you from doing that? Just curious.
     
  4. NI-KA

    NI-KA Enthusiast

    Posts:
    723
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Location:
    Canton, Ohio
    The Viper Crank Shaft has a high Silcon content and the Billet is put under alot of pressure when produced. If the crank sees high heat such as when a bearing fails small beads of glass form on the surface.

    The standing recommendation is to only weld repair the snout if damaged where the Harmonic Balancer is mounted.

    Of course it is possible to use oversize bearings when the shaft is not to badly worn/damaged but beyond that if a new crank is available that is the route chosen
     
  5. NI-KA

    NI-KA Enthusiast

    Posts:
    723
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Location:
    Canton, Ohio
    Here is the engine assembled (short the power steering bracket)

    Engine Progress 1.jpg

    Engine Progress 2.jpg

    Off to the Dyno for testing :D
     
  6. George Farris

    George Farris VCA Venom Member Venom Member

    Posts:
    1,316
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Location:
    Lipan, TX USA
    Looks Perfect!!

    The numbers should be very interesting ....
     
  7. speedracervr4

    speedracervr4 Enthusiast

    Posts:
    1,348
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Location:
    Lancaster, PA
    Looks good, I'm sure it will perfrom great. I take it that it's safe to say there will be no techical data shared in this thread other than the dyno #s.
     
  8. NI-KA

    NI-KA Enthusiast

    Posts:
    723
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Location:
    Canton, Ohio
    Here it is getting set up for the engine Dyno

    DSC01682.jpg


    Getting closer.

    DSC01683.jpg
     
  9. ACRucrazy

    ACRucrazy Enthusiast

    Posts:
    1,894
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2009
    Badass!
    Looking at the intake/TB did you get the Gen III to Gen IV kit from Mopar?

    2003 - 2006 Gen III Viper V10 150 HP Performance Upgrade Kit - P5156137
     
  10. Camfab

    Camfab Enthusiast

    Posts:
    2,915
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Location:
    SoCal
    Looks to be a very interesting build. What are you going to do about the headers?
     
  11. NI-KA

    NI-KA Enthusiast

    Posts:
    723
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Location:
    Canton, Ohio
    Close to the MOPAR kit. A few things are different since it is a Gen 2.

    Headers could be stock GEN 4 but probably going to run Belangers.
     
  12. 96GTS

    96GTS Enthusiast

    Age:
    51
    Posts:
    1,038
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Location:
    Dyess AFB, TX
    While you have to motor out, it might be a good idea to change out that cheap plastic tension idler pulley. Mine started making noise and then the bearings got hot and melted the plastic. Everything that ran off the serpentine belt stopped working (power steering and alternator).
     
  13. speedracervr4

    speedracervr4 Enthusiast

    Posts:
    1,348
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Location:
    Lancaster, PA
    What did you replace it with? Or did you just replace it with a new one?
     
  14. Konza800

    Konza800 Viper Owner

    Posts:
    149
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Looking good Sam! Ive seen that dyno b4...
     
  15. ACRucrazy

    ACRucrazy Enthusiast

    Posts:
    1,894
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2009
    This build makes me want to get a Gen II :headbang:
     
  16. Fuoss484

    Fuoss484 Viper Owner

    Posts:
    63
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    Location:
    Tyrone PA
    Looking good, cant wait to see some numbers with this thing.
     
  17. 96GTS

    96GTS Enthusiast

    Age:
    51
    Posts:
    1,038
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Location:
    Dyess AFB, TX
    I did get a new one, and I believe it's the same as the one used on the 5.7 Hemi. It was around $20, but they do make some nice aftermarket pieces that are much better quality.
     
  18. Dart451

    Dart451 Enthusiast

    Posts:
    51
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Location:
    Il
    Any updates?
     
  19. NI-KA

    NI-KA Enthusiast

    Posts:
    723
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Location:
    Canton, Ohio
    The engine is at McCann Racing for installation.
     
  20. NI-KA

    NI-KA Enthusiast

    Posts:
    723
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Location:
    Canton, Ohio
    Will be using American Racing Headers (ACRx Headers)
     
  21. VIPER BAZ UK

    VIPER BAZ UK Enthusiast

    Age:
    46
    Posts:
    5,631
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2002
    Location:
    ENGLAND
    Very nice......
     
  22. Camfab

    Camfab Enthusiast

    Posts:
    2,915
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Location:
    SoCal
    Something tells me that thing is going to kick some serious bu............
     
  23. NI-KA

    NI-KA Enthusiast

    Posts:
    723
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Location:
    Canton, Ohio
    Here are a few of the latest pictures of the build.

    I decided to go with an upgraded strapped twin disk clutch from Toddy at Bad Boyz Garage. I previously had the BBG Heritage single disk clutch and flywheel which was very nice. Also went with the BBG Clutch Slave Cylinder this time. Hope to see a decent amount of track time next year. :drive:

    The install is coming along very nicely at this point thanks to Dan at McCann Racing. :2tu:

    engine bay.jpg Front engine view.jpg Engine Side View.jpg Clutch.jpg throw out.jpg
     
  24. NI-KA

    NI-KA Enthusiast

    Posts:
    723
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Location:
    Canton, Ohio
    The motor is installed and running. :D It still needs tuned. Final tuning won't occur until spring.

    You can hear the car run on the video.

    Enjoy the sound!

    http://youtu.be/dFim2doV2Xs"> http://youtu.be/dFim2doV2Xs

    Note: The car is running on Belanger Headers with the K&N intake kit.
    Can't wait for spring ! :drive:
     
  25. JAY

    JAY Enthusiast

    Posts:
    1,425
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Location:
    Ontario Canada
    Nice build ! Keep us posted . :2tu:
     
  26. ACRucrazy

    ACRucrazy Enthusiast

    Posts:
    1,894
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2009
    Good stuff!!
     
  27. jasond29

    jasond29 Enthusiast

    Posts:
    15
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    So what's the end result of this build?
     
  28. NI-KA

    NI-KA Enthusiast

    Posts:
    723
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Location:
    Canton, Ohio
    Currently waiting on a final tweak in a cold room to validate the tune.

    I wish I could say I am waiting patiently but I am not.
    Current indications are I will see the car by the end of June.

    I think this is likely since I am guessing a release of the GEN II to GEN IV MOPAR kit would be well timed with the July activities in Detroit.
     
  29. Stuntman

    Stuntman Enthusiast

    Posts:
    107
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Location:
    Wellington, FL
    There's going to be a 2-4 Mopar kit?
     

Share This Page