madninjaskillz
Enthusiast
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2010
- Posts
- 354
- Reaction score
- 0
This x1000. His "viewpoint" is so transparent it's laughable.
MCVO Separates from National VCA
- Thread starter Smog Dog
- Start date
- Status
This x1000. His "viewpoint" is so transparent it's laughable.
Timnineside
Enthusiast
I agree! Does anyone happen to know when the next VOI will be?? My business has me booked out a year in advanced and I would really like to get a tentative date so I can book around it!
Never been to a VOI so I feel this is something I need to do before I die.
-Tim
Janni
Enthusiast
I am a trophy wife! I LOVE IT!!!!!
VOI is total Viper immersion. It's the drive to get there, everyone staying in the same place, renewing friendships, tech sessions with the SRT guys (personal faves), road rally / tours, dinners, entertainment, etc.
My first VOI was the first Vegas - and there was a "formal" night there - and people REALLY got dressed up. I remember sitting with one couple that went all out. But - she wasn't a trophy wife - AT ALL.
It would be a crying shame to not have VOIs. They are just too special. And for "special" like that - it costs.
VOI is total Viper immersion. It's the drive to get there, everyone staying in the same place, renewing friendships, tech sessions with the SRT guys (personal faves), road rally / tours, dinners, entertainment, etc.
My first VOI was the first Vegas - and there was a "formal" night there - and people REALLY got dressed up. I remember sitting with one couple that went all out. But - she wasn't a trophy wife - AT ALL.
It would be a crying shame to not have VOIs. They are just too special. And for "special" like that - it costs.
AZTVR
Enthusiast
I have to agree that talking about whether the MCVO *** overstepped their authority is only a matter for their membership to address. The people on their *** are probably totally different than the 12 people on the VCA ***. I do not think that the MCVO *** would want to go through all of that membership voting hassle that is mentioned in their bylaws to make this kind of decision. With 170 members, that could get messy and time consuming.
.........................................................................Contact the MCVC. They have a relationship with Chrysler, and will be putting it on.
I do not disagree but the MCVO is a Michigan non profit entity and I doubt that the law in Michigan allows them to ignore their own Bylaws while, at the same time, maintaining their non profit status. Better to be safe and do it the right way. Since everyone already knows their intended goal, it should not be that hard to do. A little democracy goes a long way.
Show me where I have at any time stated that it is OK for the VCA to ignore its Bylaws. All of my posts have been in support of the problems being handled with civility, respect and the due process set forth in the Bylaws which is considerable. It appears that some who post here do not seem to understand that this is what anyone of us should be entitled to as Members of the VCA. I would guess that some of the posters, especially the most hostile ones, have never read the VCA's or the MCVO's Bylaws and are just having a good time contributing nothing of value to solve any of the problems. I would very much like the National Leadership to act more expeditiously to make significant progess in moving the club forward so that more secessions do not occur. But the problems need to be solved without throwing the baby out with the bath water. The club needs to be able to operate going forward and that does require some people who know what to do and how to do it whoever that may end up being.
johniew398
Enthusiast
Then in that case Bob how do VCA members hold a vote on the current VCA leadership? Is that possible under the current bylaws?
Hisserman
Enthusiast
Three observations:
First, unlike the VCA ***, the MCVO *** communicates fully with its members. We support our Board and any vote of the membership would strongly support their action to withdraw from the VCA.
Secondly, MCVO is acutely aware of their by laws. The by laws fully permit the action taken. No member had their membership in VCA revoked, so the cite by Bob is not applicable. MCVO will amend their by laws in the coming year, but only after ample discussion with the membership on the direction they want their club to take in the future. The MCVO *** does not rush blindly forward in an autocratic manner like some others do.
Third: I'm sure the MCVO *** will be communicating with other VCA Regions too before future directions are determined.
First, unlike the VCA ***, the MCVO *** communicates fully with its members. We support our Board and any vote of the membership would strongly support their action to withdraw from the VCA.
Secondly, MCVO is acutely aware of their by laws. The by laws fully permit the action taken. No member had their membership in VCA revoked, so the cite by Bob is not applicable. MCVO will amend their by laws in the coming year, but only after ample discussion with the membership on the direction they want their club to take in the future. The MCVO *** does not rush blindly forward in an autocratic manner like some others do.
Third: I'm sure the MCVO *** will be communicating with other VCA Regions too before future directions are determined.
Fatboy 18
Enthusiast
What really worries me about all this is if all the regions split away what's going to happen to the Chicks with Vipers thread! 
Very Sad
Very Sad
What really worries me about all this is if all the regions split away what's going to happen to the Chicks with Vipers thread!
Very Sad
that is not too far from the truth. There will be no cohesive Forum to share ideas and communicate as regions split.
Bruce
virginiavenom
Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2009
- Posts
- 119
- Reaction score
- 0
viperalley.com no censorship. chicks with vipers thread would be more than welcome. all welcome on that forum. some very smart tech guys there too.
The langauge cited has nothing to do with a membership being revoked. Please take the time to read it again. It pertains to the process of amending the MCVO's Bylaws and it is very clear. A proper secession would entail amending those Bylaws to eliminate all references to the VCA and the National Board and Officers. It really is not debatable. The wording is quite clear.
virginiavenom
Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2009
- Posts
- 119
- Reaction score
- 0
there are others that aren't as abrasive.
thevipergarage.com is one I frequent. good tech there too.
vipersoftheworld.com
viperforums.net
Steve 00RT/10
Enthusiast
Except for rejoining every year, or pulling some How To info off of here for a banned friend, it's been over 2.5 years since I've come to this forum. I don't feel I've missed anything at all. I've been a MCVO member since 3/2000.
The input back from members to the MCVO board so far has been overwhelmingly positive. I don't believe there will be any repercussions from the members to the board. I believe the vast majority of all VCA members realize most of their Viper enjoyment at the local level. We haven't been to a national VCA event since 2005. We were at two VOIs before that. (too big, too hard to move the ship around, too much money...always should have been ala carte pricing) On the flip side, we regularly drive the 500 miles to Detroit for club events...thus the 110,000 miles on our car to date.
Aside from the fact that I'm totally in favor of this, and have been for a few years now, I think there's something that many here fail to realize. I would bet a good burger that the majority of VCA members have no clue what goes on here...or at the national level. Their cars come out a few times a year and they pay their dues. They will continue to do the same, regardless of their club's national affiliation. I feel sorry for those VCA members whose primary enjoyment comes from mostly national events. It means they have a weak local club. Such is not the case with the MCVO. We were a club before the VCA was started, and will be a successful Viper club for as long as we have dedicated people to voluntarily man the oars and members who want to participate.
As far as losing contact with other regions because we don't belong to a national club...that's a non starter given the internet. This was not a VCA owned forum for the first years I was here....it was much better that way. You have never needed to be a VCA member to attend a VOI that I'm aware of.
Steve
The input back from members to the MCVO board so far has been overwhelmingly positive. I don't believe there will be any repercussions from the members to the board. I believe the vast majority of all VCA members realize most of their Viper enjoyment at the local level. We haven't been to a national VCA event since 2005. We were at two VOIs before that. (too big, too hard to move the ship around, too much money...always should have been ala carte pricing) On the flip side, we regularly drive the 500 miles to Detroit for club events...thus the 110,000 miles on our car to date.
Aside from the fact that I'm totally in favor of this, and have been for a few years now, I think there's something that many here fail to realize. I would bet a good burger that the majority of VCA members have no clue what goes on here...or at the national level. Their cars come out a few times a year and they pay their dues. They will continue to do the same, regardless of their club's national affiliation. I feel sorry for those VCA members whose primary enjoyment comes from mostly national events. It means they have a weak local club. Such is not the case with the MCVO. We were a club before the VCA was started, and will be a successful Viper club for as long as we have dedicated people to voluntarily man the oars and members who want to participate.
As far as losing contact with other regions because we don't belong to a national club...that's a non starter given the internet. This was not a VCA owned forum for the first years I was here....it was much better that way. You have never needed to be a VCA member to attend a VOI that I'm aware of.
Steve
Hi. Good question. Since the VCA's Bylaws are far more complex, it took a while to see if there was a way to do what you asked about in a direct way. Here are a few data points of interest: 1. The VCA Bylaws, unlike the MCVO Bylaws can be amended by a majority vote of the National Board without a vote of the general membership. But, there is a procedure for amendments being proposed for the action of the National Board. 2. There is no provision for an election of National Board members by a vote of all of the members. 3. Regional Presidents are elected by their members. 3. National Officers are elected by a majority secret vote of the National Board and the Regional Presidents which occurs in even numbered years between September 1 and November 1. I think this occurred last at the last VOI in North Carolina. 4. There is a mechanism for expulsion from the club provided by Article II, Section 3 which sets forth fairly elaborate procedures that include a right of Appeal. With this said, I think that the Chrysler letter, together with the intended secession of MCVO, and some of the more thoughtful posts regarding club problems that have appeared on the VCA Forums over the last two weeks or so, provide ample motivation for the National Board with the Regional Presidents, if required, to take appropriate and lawful action in a respectful and proper manner to cure the problems. The intended action of the MCVO is clearly an enormous shot over their bow that cannot be ignored.
Tom Shapiro
Enthusiast
Should be a very interesting IL Region monthly meeting tonight.
That is why it is so important to have a mass debate about the issues.
What really worries me about all this is if all the regions split away what's going to happen to the Chicks with Vipers thread!
Very Sad
English Bob, not Lawyer-ese.
Can the VCA members hold a majority vote in regards to the leadership positions at the VCA in a crisis such as this? My take on the bylaw changes they rammed in a few years ago was this is no longer possible and thus the bylaw changes were very deliberate in their intent. At the time, I remember they were conjured up and passed in a complete vacuum of executive officers, etc. then made known to the members without so much as a consulting word to the members for the opinion. If you recall at the time, you were very supportive of the changes basically stating to anyone that question them on the forums that the board is smart enough to know what is best for the club and the club is growing and doing just fine at the time. The bylaw changes gave them all the authority and power to do exactly what as been done legally and without recourse. The only way around this now is to no-longer rejoin as a VCA member or to escape the situation by Regional Clubs and Local chapters seceeding. It is each regions decision to do what is best for it's regions members so we can not knock any region's decision to do what they feel is right as in the case of the MCVO. It is disappointing as with any car manufacturer club, it's strength in numbers and unity. This turn of events pulls from that mission, however the National Club has not conducted itself in a proper manner either hence it is all around a bad situation.
Unfortunately the longer this goes on, the uglier it is going to get and the more likely other regions and chapters are going to move on from the VCA. Even without all the total data; the rumors, the emotions, etc. there is without a shadow of a doubt that something wrong was going on here. With that in mind, if any of the top execs in the club ever really cared for this car, this club and it's future with Chrysler (it is suppose to be just a fun car club after all) they would have gladly stepped down and allowed due course to be taken. If there was nothing done wrong, there is nothing to hide from. The truth is the truth and it sets people free. The fact this is still going on without word to the members and top execs are lawyering up is painfully clear that something really, really was wrong in what was being done and how things were operating.
I am reserving judgements until after I see something of fact on this beyond the emotional responses and official letters floating around but I have to admit things look very dark right now and for me at least, there is a whole nother level of trust that needs to be reached again before the overshadow of these events subsides to where many will feel comfortable in their money being used wisely by the club (National, Regions, Local, etc.)
This situation is present because of blind trust and following. Every civilization who did this crumbled due to power, greed, money and corruption. Bylaws are put in place to protect it from happening whetehr that is words written into law or versus in a bible. People are human and while we like to think and really want to believe people are good, you simply can not trust in that all man will do what is right for everyone.
Bob, you have been very vocal against those questioning and while I admit there are a lot of emotions running high andresponses, rumors, facts, etc. are being shot around like a scatter gun, however the one thing you have not been is objective. If you were truly objective, you would also voice where the VCA has not done their job, either by their obligations to members or in their actions in question. I think you would find a number of people actually appreciating your obvious knowldge of some of these situations if you were not so one sided in your response. Yes civility and professionalism needs to be present in this situation which some are trying to follow. I support that as well but to be truly objective and fair to all parties involved, including the members (which you are a member) you own it to yourself to also be open on the events and actions of the VCA itself. Otherwise you do have an agenda and well your credibility suffers. That being said, why don't you comments on why the MCVO has the right to seceed despite their own bylaw issues you want to point out. As you are a member here, you owe it to yourself to be objective in the analysis.
Can the VCA members hold a majority vote in regards to the leadership positions at the VCA in a crisis such as this? My take on the bylaw changes they rammed in a few years ago was this is no longer possible and thus the bylaw changes were very deliberate in their intent. At the time, I remember they were conjured up and passed in a complete vacuum of executive officers, etc. then made known to the members without so much as a consulting word to the members for the opinion. If you recall at the time, you were very supportive of the changes basically stating to anyone that question them on the forums that the board is smart enough to know what is best for the club and the club is growing and doing just fine at the time. The bylaw changes gave them all the authority and power to do exactly what as been done legally and without recourse. The only way around this now is to no-longer rejoin as a VCA member or to escape the situation by Regional Clubs and Local chapters seceeding. It is each regions decision to do what is best for it's regions members so we can not knock any region's decision to do what they feel is right as in the case of the MCVO. It is disappointing as with any car manufacturer club, it's strength in numbers and unity. This turn of events pulls from that mission, however the National Club has not conducted itself in a proper manner either hence it is all around a bad situation.
Unfortunately the longer this goes on, the uglier it is going to get and the more likely other regions and chapters are going to move on from the VCA. Even without all the total data; the rumors, the emotions, etc. there is without a shadow of a doubt that something wrong was going on here. With that in mind, if any of the top execs in the club ever really cared for this car, this club and it's future with Chrysler (it is suppose to be just a fun car club after all) they would have gladly stepped down and allowed due course to be taken. If there was nothing done wrong, there is nothing to hide from. The truth is the truth and it sets people free. The fact this is still going on without word to the members and top execs are lawyering up is painfully clear that something really, really was wrong in what was being done and how things were operating.
I am reserving judgements until after I see something of fact on this beyond the emotional responses and official letters floating around but I have to admit things look very dark right now and for me at least, there is a whole nother level of trust that needs to be reached again before the overshadow of these events subsides to where many will feel comfortable in their money being used wisely by the club (National, Regions, Local, etc.)
This situation is present because of blind trust and following. Every civilization who did this crumbled due to power, greed, money and corruption. Bylaws are put in place to protect it from happening whetehr that is words written into law or versus in a bible. People are human and while we like to think and really want to believe people are good, you simply can not trust in that all man will do what is right for everyone.
Bob, you have been very vocal against those questioning and while I admit there are a lot of emotions running high andresponses, rumors, facts, etc. are being shot around like a scatter gun, however the one thing you have not been is objective. If you were truly objective, you would also voice where the VCA has not done their job, either by their obligations to members or in their actions in question. I think you would find a number of people actually appreciating your obvious knowldge of some of these situations if you were not so one sided in your response. Yes civility and professionalism needs to be present in this situation which some are trying to follow. I support that as well but to be truly objective and fair to all parties involved, including the members (which you are a member) you own it to yourself to also be open on the events and actions of the VCA itself. Otherwise you do have an agenda and well your credibility suffers. That being said, why don't you comments on why the MCVO has the right to seceed despite their own bylaw issues you want to point out. As you are a member here, you owe it to yourself to be objective in the analysis.
eucharistos
Enthusiast
(edit: my post was too juvenile even for me)
rw99
Enthusiast
I say: simplify.
I'd be happy to be a part of an independent NorCal club... one that would continue to properly maintain and grow our relationship with SRT and Chrysler. I don't want to read complex by-laws; I like trusting my president, VP, and treasurer because they're all personal friends.
Digressing: if VOI survives and becomes a "VCA-only" event? I think an independent NorCal club would be happy to invite our MCVO friends (and other VCA ex-pats) out to enjoy some time cruising Highway 1, sampling Napa's best, and track time at Seca, Sonoma, and T-Hill. Independent clubs can still work together to organize memorable Viper events...
I don't speak for anyone but myself. Despite my preference, perhaps NorCal will remain a part of a national VCA. But I'd guess that most of us derive the greatest enjoyment from our friends in our local clubs... highlighted by true one-of-a-kind events that feature special access to SRT.
National club? To me, largely broken and unnecessary.
Rich
I'd be happy to be a part of an independent NorCal club... one that would continue to properly maintain and grow our relationship with SRT and Chrysler. I don't want to read complex by-laws; I like trusting my president, VP, and treasurer because they're all personal friends.
Digressing: if VOI survives and becomes a "VCA-only" event? I think an independent NorCal club would be happy to invite our MCVO friends (and other VCA ex-pats) out to enjoy some time cruising Highway 1, sampling Napa's best, and track time at Seca, Sonoma, and T-Hill. Independent clubs can still work together to organize memorable Viper events...
I don't speak for anyone but myself. Despite my preference, perhaps NorCal will remain a part of a national VCA. But I'd guess that most of us derive the greatest enjoyment from our friends in our local clubs... highlighted by true one-of-a-kind events that feature special access to SRT.
National club? To me, largely broken and unnecessary.
Rich
Last edited:
propsail
Enthusiast
ROCKET62
Has Left the Room!
As much as I've disagreed with many of the national VCA policies and procedures - I do see value and believe that a National Viper Club is beneficial. Simplicity, Transparency, Internet Voting by the Members for Board positions, Strong Conflict of Interest Position, Volunteer positions (I have no problem reimbursing for reasonable travel expenses), Published Financial Statements, Published Meeting Minutes, Making It an OPTION to Belong to a Local Chapter (I don't support the current practice of nearly half of the dues going to a local chapter), No Censorship for Respectful Discussions (Explanation Provided if a Post is Deemed Inappropriate), Reasonable way to deal with Trolls - Warn, Warn, Temp Suspension, Ban.
DING, DING, DING ... we have a winner!
DING, DING, DING ... we have a winner!
I think that you need to read my posts, both past and present a bit more precisely. I am not vocal against those questioning anything. That is their right. I am vocal about some who want a rush to judgment as oppposed to a study of the facts and a reasoned response. With that said, I never anticipated that the National Board would take so long. There is no reason that there could not have been progress reports made to the embership by now other than just Lee's post and Tony's recent post. At this point, it is getting a bit ridiculous. As for MCVO, I have no problem with whatever they wish to do. It's their Chapter. I just think that they should do it in a way that is consistent with their Bylaws. They are the first ones to do it and shouldn't they do it correctly in accordance with the democratic procedures that they have in place? How would doing it otherwise set a good example for anyone? As for the VCA Bylaws, as stated above, there is a method to expel members if they have truely committed certain types of acts. The Regional Presidents can also get together and recommend a Bylaw Change which the Board has to Act on. What you call "lawyerese" is merely following proper procedure. It is my hope that the club is not permanently disabled by the events we are witnessing and that there is minimal residual disability after curative measures are taken.
English Bob, not Lawyer-ese.
Can the VCA members hold a majority vote in regards to the leadership positions at the VCA in a crisis such as this? My take on the bylaw changes they rammed in a few years ago was this is no longer possible and thus the bylaw changes were very deliberate in their intent. At the time, I remember they were conjured up and passed in a complete vacuum of executive officers, etc. then made known to the members without so much as a consulting word to the members for the opinion. If you recall at the time, you were very supportive of the changes basically stating to anyone that question them on the forums that the board is smart enough to know what is best for the club and the club is growing and doing just fine at the time. The bylaw changes gave them all the authority and power to do exactly what as been done legally and without recourse. The only way around this now is to no-longer rejoin as a VCA member or to escape the situation by Regional Clubs and Local chapters seceeding. It is each regions decision to do what is best for it's regions members so we can not knock any region's decision to do what they feel is right as in the case of the MCVO. It is disappointing as with any car manufacturer club, it's strength in numbers and unity. This turn of events pulls from that mission, however the National Club has not conducted itself in a proper manner either hence it is all around a bad situation.
Unfortunately the longer this goes on, the uglier it is going to get and the more likely other regions and chapters are going to move on from the VCA. Even without all the total data; the rumors, the emotions, etc. there is without a shadow of a doubt that something wrong was going on here. With that in mind, if any of the top execs in the club ever really cared for this car, this club and it's future with Chrysler (it is suppose to be just a fun car club after all) they would have gladly stepped down and allowed due course to be taken. If there was nothing done wrong, there is nothing to hide from. The truth is the truth and it sets people free. The fact this is still going on without word to the members and top execs are lawyering up is painfully clear that something really, really was wrong in what was being done and how things were operating.
I am reserving judgements until after I see something of fact on this beyond the emotional responses and official letters floating around but I have to admit things look very dark right now and for me at least, there is a whole nother level of trust that needs to be reached again before the overshadow of these events subsides to where many will feel comfortable in their money being used wisely by the club (National, Regions, Local, etc.)
This situation is present because of blind trust and following. Every civilization who did this crumbled due to power, greed, money and corruption. Bylaws are put in place to protect it from happening whetehr that is words written into law or versus in a bible. People are human and while we like to think and really want to believe people are good, you simply can not trust in that all man will do what is right for everyone.
Bob, you have been very vocal against those questioning and while I admit there are a lot of emotions running high andresponses, rumors, facts, etc. are being shot around like a scatter gun, however the one thing you have not been is objective. If you were truly objective, you would also voice where the VCA has not done their job, either by their obligations to members or in their actions in question. I think you would find a number of people actually appreciating your obvious knowldge of some of these situations if you were not so one sided in your response. Yes civility and professionalism needs to be present in this situation which some are trying to follow. I support that as well but to be truly objective and fair to all parties involved, including the members (which you are a member) you own it to yourself to also be open on the events and actions of the VCA itself. Otherwise you do have an agenda and well your credibility suffers. That being said, why don't you comments on why the MCVO has the right to seceed despite their own bylaw issues you want to point out. As you are a member here, you owe it to yourself to be objective in the analysis.
TrackAire
Enthusiast
I agree with you completely Rich, Norcal has the potential to be one of the best regions since primarily because of its members. The best time I had at the VOI in Salt Lake was the caravan with the NorCal group from the Bay Area to the VOI. Great people and a great time.
The Ford GT owners are having their version of a VOI in Sonoma this week. I had 10 Ford GT's stored in my warehouse over the weekend. This is not a "club" yet they are able to put on VOI type of events that include nice hotels, track days, touring, dinners, car shows, auctions, etc.
It really would be a nice get together if NorCal, SoCal and Nevada all met up once a year for a VOI type of event which could alternate every year to each regions home territory.
National touts that we are covered with "Insurance" for Viper club events. Not sure I really see the value or need for that on a national level. Any car wreck will be covered first by your cars policy.....and nothing is covered for track events
Cheers,
George
NI-KA
Enthusiast
I understand why the MCVO separated. However, it is unfortunate it has come to this.
In regards to the behavior of the National VCA; the behavior we are witnessing is pretty typical of leadership when it is confronted with rejection of said leadership.
The VCA is a club. I expect it to be basically run as non-profit or not-for-profit.
Based on the current pattern by the National VCA I do not see that the MCVO had any other alternative. Based on the VCA Bylaws, what other alternative is available to the membership except separation? If they want urgent change. What is the remedy?
Earlier comments indicate that the Bylaws were re-written to benefit the ***. If so, the membership is left in the position of begging for change.
I do not know any of the people involved at the national level. They may very well be good intentioned people and they may not be. It really does not matter. If things do not change it is pretty clear we will witness the collapse of the VCA. This could not have happened at a more inopportune time for the SRT brand and for the VCA.
The club should be growing as a result of the roll out of the new model and at least somewhat follow the pattern of sales to new Viper owners. No one really wants to participate with a group experiencing this level of problems.
There are bigger more important problems to deal with in the world today. The VCA should not have these problems. I can turn on any news outlet and hear bad things all day long.
VCA National *** make the necessary changes now. You are only prolonging the inevitable. The difference is if you act now the VCA will likely survive. Post-pone action and that becomes more questionable everyday.
In regards to the behavior of the National VCA; the behavior we are witnessing is pretty typical of leadership when it is confronted with rejection of said leadership.
The VCA is a club. I expect it to be basically run as non-profit or not-for-profit.
Based on the current pattern by the National VCA I do not see that the MCVO had any other alternative. Based on the VCA Bylaws, what other alternative is available to the membership except separation? If they want urgent change. What is the remedy?
Earlier comments indicate that the Bylaws were re-written to benefit the ***. If so, the membership is left in the position of begging for change.
I do not know any of the people involved at the national level. They may very well be good intentioned people and they may not be. It really does not matter. If things do not change it is pretty clear we will witness the collapse of the VCA. This could not have happened at a more inopportune time for the SRT brand and for the VCA.
The club should be growing as a result of the roll out of the new model and at least somewhat follow the pattern of sales to new Viper owners. No one really wants to participate with a group experiencing this level of problems.
There are bigger more important problems to deal with in the world today. The VCA should not have these problems. I can turn on any news outlet and hear bad things all day long.
VCA National *** make the necessary changes now. You are only prolonging the inevitable. The difference is if you act now the VCA will likely survive. Post-pone action and that becomes more questionable everyday.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
How much more time should they be given? Another week? Two?
The raffle came and went, people never got tickets, we don't know where it was held.
No info. But hey, it is all ok right? We shouldn't make any judgements because we have no info at all!
impalassed
Viper Owner
Maurice sent an update to the Presidents tonight (landed in my inbox at 8:34PM CDT) Hopefully your Region President will pass that on to you soon. I have sent to all Mid South group already.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
