My first post, 407WHP...
- Thread starter THEMASH
- Start date
Eddie N
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by THEMASH:
I just had my STEALTH TT AWD dynod yesterday, made 420WHP at 1.1 bar, running 15g's
o ya, on pump gas also
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
but you have an extra 2 cylinders
!!
I just had my STEALTH TT AWD dynod yesterday, made 420WHP at 1.1 bar, running 15g's
o ya, on pump gas also
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
but you have an extra 2 cylinders
jcaspar1
Enthusiast
Those Stealths mush have a lot of drive train loss. 575 hp down to 420 RWHP! Thats about a 27% loss!! Ouch...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eddie N:
but you have an extra 2 cylinders
!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
True, but he has a rebuilt motor with Ross pistons, HKS cams, aftermarket crank and rods. ported heads,intake and exhaust manifolds, bigger valves and ... and... so on. My motor is bone STOCK, I even have the stock intake/exhaust manifolds on, not even ported. all i have done are bigger turbos, bigger intercoolers, exhaust, downpipe and a upgraded fuel system. go to my web site for my list of mods.
I am sure mc55's car is faster then mine, even though i make more power, he is much lighter.
The stealth is my daily driver by the way.
but you have an extra 2 cylinders
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
True, but he has a rebuilt motor with Ross pistons, HKS cams, aftermarket crank and rods. ported heads,intake and exhaust manifolds, bigger valves and ... and... so on. My motor is bone STOCK, I even have the stock intake/exhaust manifolds on, not even ported. all i have done are bigger turbos, bigger intercoolers, exhaust, downpipe and a upgraded fuel system. go to my web site for my list of mods.
I am sure mc55's car is faster then mine, even though i make more power, he is much lighter.
The stealth is my daily driver by the way.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jcaspar1:
Those Stealths mush have a lot of drive train loss. 575 hp down to 420 RWHP! Thats about a 27% loss!! Ouch...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dont forget, its all wheel drive. its not 420 RWHP, its 420 WHP
I heard its more like 30-33%, but i used 27%.
I would be making 600hp at 30% loss
Those Stealths mush have a lot of drive train loss. 575 hp down to 420 RWHP! Thats about a 27% loss!! Ouch...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dont forget, its all wheel drive. its not 420 RWHP, its 420 WHP
I heard its more like 30-33%, but i used 27%.
I would be making 600hp at 30% loss
Hoosier Daddy
Enthusiast
I would have taken my tricked out Acura to the dyno, but it rained again yesterday and the piece of $hit won't start again! Or in other words Uuuhhhhmmmm so!
Eddie N
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hoosier Daddy:
I would have taken my tricked out Acura to the dyno, but it rained again yesterday and the piece of $hit won't start again! Or in other words Uuuhhhhmmmm so!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
thats harsh man!!
stealth TTs and VR4's are beautiful cars.. the interiors are great (ive got a 93 3000gt SL).. my only gripe is the getrag trannies being weak and the non existant availability of replacement parts for it..the synchros are also not up to par.. i like the heavyness of the car though, it makes me feel safe..
i was looking into buying one, but the tranny problems were a deal breaker.. unlike some of these guys, i dont have the cashflow to lay out 3 grand when the tranny pops..
but, im still a big fan..
- eddie -
I would have taken my tricked out Acura to the dyno, but it rained again yesterday and the piece of $hit won't start again! Or in other words Uuuhhhhmmmm so!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
thats harsh man!!
stealth TTs and VR4's are beautiful cars.. the interiors are great (ive got a 93 3000gt SL).. my only gripe is the getrag trannies being weak and the non existant availability of replacement parts for it..the synchros are also not up to par.. i like the heavyness of the car though, it makes me feel safe..
i was looking into buying one, but the tranny problems were a deal breaker.. unlike some of these guys, i dont have the cashflow to lay out 3 grand when the tranny pops..
but, im still a big fan..
- eddie -
onerareviper
Enthusiast
MC55,
Nice car. I always like that model of the Eclipse/Talon.
Later
Nice car. I always like that model of the Eclipse/Talon.
Later
King GTS
Enthusiast
What in the world is a TSi? I guess I'm all alone on that one.
Welcome to the board anyway buddy.
Welcome to the board anyway buddy.
King GTS
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mc55:
A TSi is a model of an Eagle Talon. The ******* child of Chrysler and Mitsubishi.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Cool. Looks like your is pretty fast.
A TSi is a model of an Eagle Talon. The ******* child of Chrysler and Mitsubishi.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Cool. Looks like your is pretty fast.
Eddie N
Enthusiast
and the other illegitimate child, the chrysler conquest TSi/mitsubishi starion TSi ..
- eddie -
- eddie -
I have some questions. You got 407whp, 21psi no NOS and pump gas on an AWD Talon.
What is the name of the shop you dynoed at?
I didn't know of any 4WD dynos in the Toronto area. If you converted to 2wd for the dyno then with the extra drivetrain loss of 4wd you probably lost another 7% to 10% RWHP.
What was the Octane of the pump gas?
With a 9.0:1 compression ratio I would think that 94Octane wouldn't allow 21psi while dynoing since the intercooler doesn't have enough airflow to keep intake temps down.
Plus the fact that the head is ported and valves oversized means that you are flowing much more air mass than a 21psi 20G turboed Talon with stock compression (8.5:1 for 1995up). My friend with a stock head has seen 18-19psi run ok but that was on a car that was moving air through it's huge frontmount Griffin Intercooler. I'd think you'd need around 100-104 Octane for 21psi in a static condition using a modified 20G or 16G.
Also if you are flowing 400 hp to 4 wheels you should probably switch to the 9in K&N filter with the filter section in the top of the cone also. That's a lot of airflow to ask of the 5in or 6in filter on the car. You'd probably gain another 10rwhp unless you dynoed with the filter removed. Either way it'd help you at the track.
What is the name of the shop you dynoed at?
I didn't know of any 4WD dynos in the Toronto area. If you converted to 2wd for the dyno then with the extra drivetrain loss of 4wd you probably lost another 7% to 10% RWHP.
What was the Octane of the pump gas?
With a 9.0:1 compression ratio I would think that 94Octane wouldn't allow 21psi while dynoing since the intercooler doesn't have enough airflow to keep intake temps down.
Plus the fact that the head is ported and valves oversized means that you are flowing much more air mass than a 21psi 20G turboed Talon with stock compression (8.5:1 for 1995up). My friend with a stock head has seen 18-19psi run ok but that was on a car that was moving air through it's huge frontmount Griffin Intercooler. I'd think you'd need around 100-104 Octane for 21psi in a static condition using a modified 20G or 16G.
Also if you are flowing 400 hp to 4 wheels you should probably switch to the 9in K&N filter with the filter section in the top of the cone also. That's a lot of airflow to ask of the 5in or 6in filter on the car. You'd probably gain another 10rwhp unless you dynoed with the filter removed. Either way it'd help you at the track.
Craig 201 MPH
Enthusiast
Sounds like a sweet car, I'll be watching out in the GTA for ya. what color is it? any distinguishing body mods? I drive a stock turbo daytona, and I'm in Toronto often. I live on the other side of oshawa.
The only dyno my car's seen is the one for the e-test
Craig
The only dyno my car's seen is the one for the e-test
Craig
You sound slightly defensive. I don't know very much about your car but I have in depth knowledge about how cars work. For example I know the frontal surface area of the intercooler is the significant metric and thickness doesn't lower temps nearly as well.
We both can agree I don't know much about your car so hopefully you won't mind helping me understand the competition better by answering a few more questions.
Having 3 fans I'm sure helped out significantly with temps on the dyno so that helps me understand the numbers better but I still have a couple questions.
What rev limit do you have and how much torque and boost did your modded turbo put out at redline?
I assume you have a way to log engine sensors so what was your knock count on average, what rpm did it peak at, and what was it at 6500rpm?
You said it was running rich. Did you test A/F ratio from the exhaust or did you look at the voltage from the stock O2 sensor? If it was A/F ratio what was the ratio at 6500rpm and if it was O2 sensor was was the voltage at 6500rpm?
Also what was the ignition timing at 6500rpm? Was it at 20deg or around 12deg? I ask because I know that the boost level a person can run depends on the timing that they run at WOT. So it'd be neat if you can run over 12deg timing on 94Oct and 21psi with a 9:1 compression ratio.
Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to learn about your car. If you could post some qtr mile times with 60ft and trap speed that'd be relly cool to see also. I'm sure you get at least 1.6 to 1.7 60fts on street tires with your AWD.
Thanks
We both can agree I don't know much about your car so hopefully you won't mind helping me understand the competition better by answering a few more questions.
Having 3 fans I'm sure helped out significantly with temps on the dyno so that helps me understand the numbers better but I still have a couple questions.
What rev limit do you have and how much torque and boost did your modded turbo put out at redline?
I assume you have a way to log engine sensors so what was your knock count on average, what rpm did it peak at, and what was it at 6500rpm?
You said it was running rich. Did you test A/F ratio from the exhaust or did you look at the voltage from the stock O2 sensor? If it was A/F ratio what was the ratio at 6500rpm and if it was O2 sensor was was the voltage at 6500rpm?
Also what was the ignition timing at 6500rpm? Was it at 20deg or around 12deg? I ask because I know that the boost level a person can run depends on the timing that they run at WOT. So it'd be neat if you can run over 12deg timing on 94Oct and 21psi with a 9:1 compression ratio.
Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to learn about your car. If you could post some qtr mile times with 60ft and trap speed that'd be relly cool to see also. I'm sure you get at least 1.6 to 1.7 60fts on street tires with your AWD.
Thanks
Thanks for the information!
You didn't get as detailed as I had hoped but I can respect a person for holding out on some secrets.
That's too bad about the boost controller. If you're getting 12.2sec, 116mph with 1.8 60fts and only 15psi you'll be hitting 11's for sure with 20psi. Having a warm track should put you in the 1.6 60fts and that would be all you need for high 12's.
With race gas and 25psi you might not even need the NOS for low 11's.
Good job!
You didn't get as detailed as I had hoped but I can respect a person for holding out on some secrets.
That's too bad about the boost controller. If you're getting 12.2sec, 116mph with 1.8 60fts and only 15psi you'll be hitting 11's for sure with 20psi. Having a warm track should put you in the 1.6 60fts and that would be all you need for high 12's.
With race gas and 25psi you might not even need the NOS for low 11's.
Good job!
Craig 201 MPH
Enthusiast
hit refresh after you reload this topic
Sonny 00 GTS ACR
Enthusiast
I'm just curious why this post is in a VIPER forum?
NosLaser
Enthusiast
<<<I'd think you'd need around 100-104 Octane for 21psi in a static condition using a modified 20G or 16G.>>>
Yeah, to make that power on either of those turbos you WOULD need race gas. However, in your in-depth knowledge of how cars work, you didn't take into account turbocharger efficiency. Before you make ANY assumptions of how much boost a car can run at a certain C/R, you would have to look at a compressor map of the turbocharger on that car. An efficient turbo that doesn't heat up intake temps can run higher boost on normal gas than a smaller or inefficient turbo that just blows a lot of hot air. Temperature is the key here.
<<<Also what was the ignition timing at 6500rpm? Was it at 20deg or around 12deg? I ask because I know that the boost level a person can run depends on the timing that they run at WOT. So it'd be neat if you can run over 12deg timing on 94Oct and 21psi with a 9:1 compression ratio.>>>
Again, this question is about as meaningless at the question "so how much boost are you running?" It's all dependant on other factors. You would need to know what is going on inside his motor. With a DSM, you are talking about a car with a very efficient cylinder head design, and a dished piston. If he did his homework and polished the combustion chambers, they should be very free of hot spots which are prone to detonation. With enough fuel, and proper tuning, you can run as much timing as you want so long as you don't cross the threshold of detonation. My point is, you picked two numbers out of the clear blue sky, and 2 very different numbers I might add, both of which would have little or no signifigance on this particular car. For instance, I ran 20 pounds of boost on nitrous with 33 degrees of total timing at 7K rpm on 120 octane leaded race gas and made 423HP, 428TQ to the wheels on a small unclipped 16g. Does that make sense in any equation? No, you would obviously need to know more. I'm not trying to come off harsh, but the questions you asked were all too specific in their vagueness...
Yeah, to make that power on either of those turbos you WOULD need race gas. However, in your in-depth knowledge of how cars work, you didn't take into account turbocharger efficiency. Before you make ANY assumptions of how much boost a car can run at a certain C/R, you would have to look at a compressor map of the turbocharger on that car. An efficient turbo that doesn't heat up intake temps can run higher boost on normal gas than a smaller or inefficient turbo that just blows a lot of hot air. Temperature is the key here.
<<<Also what was the ignition timing at 6500rpm? Was it at 20deg or around 12deg? I ask because I know that the boost level a person can run depends on the timing that they run at WOT. So it'd be neat if you can run over 12deg timing on 94Oct and 21psi with a 9:1 compression ratio.>>>
Again, this question is about as meaningless at the question "so how much boost are you running?" It's all dependant on other factors. You would need to know what is going on inside his motor. With a DSM, you are talking about a car with a very efficient cylinder head design, and a dished piston. If he did his homework and polished the combustion chambers, they should be very free of hot spots which are prone to detonation. With enough fuel, and proper tuning, you can run as much timing as you want so long as you don't cross the threshold of detonation. My point is, you picked two numbers out of the clear blue sky, and 2 very different numbers I might add, both of which would have little or no signifigance on this particular car. For instance, I ran 20 pounds of boost on nitrous with 33 degrees of total timing at 7K rpm on 120 octane leaded race gas and made 423HP, 428TQ to the wheels on a small unclipped 16g. Does that make sense in any equation? No, you would obviously need to know more. I'm not trying to come off harsh, but the questions you asked were all too specific in their vagueness...
Aslan,
I read your post and still can't see why you even posted. The issue was dead and I found out what I needed to know. You obviously didn't read between the lines to see what my actual questions were. The info you posted is basic knowledge as you know.
Regardless if you go to the persons website the mods are listed for his car along with some interesting pictures. I asked those questions not to find out the questions' answers but to find out if the owner was being truthful on a few things.
The turbo question was to find out what actual turbo combo he was running since it was unclear from his website. Then based on that I planned to determined whether the turbo could provide enough flow to get the dyno numbers he posted. Based on his response I know that the turbo was large enough to make the rwhp he posted and even some more.
The ignition question was to determine if he was in fact running his boost too high for his octane and engine set-up. I'm sure if understand cars you can re-read his post and you'll know what the answer to this question is.
Moral...don't criticize if you don't know what's going on in the persons head. There is intelligent life out there Captain Kirk.
I read your post and still can't see why you even posted. The issue was dead and I found out what I needed to know. You obviously didn't read between the lines to see what my actual questions were. The info you posted is basic knowledge as you know.
Regardless if you go to the persons website the mods are listed for his car along with some interesting pictures. I asked those questions not to find out the questions' answers but to find out if the owner was being truthful on a few things.
The turbo question was to find out what actual turbo combo he was running since it was unclear from his website. Then based on that I planned to determined whether the turbo could provide enough flow to get the dyno numbers he posted. Based on his response I know that the turbo was large enough to make the rwhp he posted and even some more.
The ignition question was to determine if he was in fact running his boost too high for his octane and engine set-up. I'm sure if understand cars you can re-read his post and you'll know what the answer to this question is.
Moral...don't criticize if you don't know what's going on in the persons head. There is intelligent life out there Captain Kirk.
NosLaser
Enthusiast
The point of my post was that your questions were too vague. I think in your attempt to find out if he was being truthful, you also used that as an opportunity to try and show off your automotive knowledge. The questions you asked were way too vague to be relevant, and that was the point of me posting. I apologize if it was an old thread; I had just read it for the first time. I DO however see where you are coming from if that's worth anything. 
Actually the "automotive knowledge" approach was not to show off but a smoke screen to get the other person to prove they new what they were talking about by providing the data I was looking for. The only person I have to try and impress is G-O-D. Everything else will work itself out.
Since this IS the Viper board I won't be replying to this DSM thread and I'll let it die. I'm glad you were able to deduce the info too. Maybe you'll actually get to see this 407fwhp (should be less with awd) car at the DSM shootout. Hopefully it'll be in the 11's.
Since this IS the Viper board I won't be replying to this DSM thread and I'll let it die. I'm glad you were able to deduce the info too. Maybe you'll actually get to see this 407fwhp (should be less with awd) car at the DSM shootout. Hopefully it'll be in the 11's.
