New to Board, have a few questions

[ThinkingViper]

Hello to all . I've been reading this board for a bit now. You folks all seem like wonderful people, therefore I decided to join and take advantage of your expertise.

First, let me give you some personal background. I'm a SWF, 37, and live in Michigan. After saving all my pennies, and finishing a Ph.D. (nothing more than a Piled High and Deeper degree I assure you), I'm ready to purchase my very first used viper (graduation present to myself, hehehehe). I currently own a 1992 dodge stealth (not even the twin turbo edition, lol), and felt an 'upgrade' was warranted. I plan on driving the viper during the summer months as a primary vehicle (it doesn’t seem right to call a viper a ‘vehicle’, let’s call it my ‘**** beast’.) Now, this next part may make some of you cringe, but my reason for buying a viper isn’t what’s under the hood. It is simply the fact that this **** beast is just that……… ****! Will I have some fun toying with vettes at a stop light…… sure! But, going 150 mph down I-75 is not my primary goal for everyday driving. I will keep the beast. My first car was a Toyota Supra which I kept for 13 years, and I’ve had the Stealth for 10, so resale value isn’t a primary consideration, but I do not want to spend more than the fair market value.

Now, that long winded version of my background leads me to some very pointed questions:
1)Assuming I have no more than 40K (I’d prefer 30K), what is a good way to determine a fair price? The reason I ask is because Kelly’s Blue Book numbers and the asking prices of used vipers (from a personal sale) do not match. Are vipers commanding a higher market value? If so/why?
2)Are there certain years/models that you would recommend given my price restrictions and use description?
3)Am I crazy to consider this purchase, given the fact that the viper is about speed and that’s not my primary concern? In other words, would I disappoint fellow viper owners should I decide not to race it? I mean, I’ll be doing things like grocery shopping in it, lol. I realize I’m trading the creature comforts other 40K cars would offer, but I’m sooooooo hooked on the look of this **** beast! For those of you who drive your vipers more than 5,000 miles a year,what are the drawbacks?

Ok….. I’ll stop for now, but I’m sure you’ll all be hearing more from me. Hopefully I’ll soon be meeting some of you at various viper events (even if I pull up in my old, rickety, slow stealth; But hey, it’s red!!)

Thanks in advance for any/all input!!

 

[KenH]

Congratulations on your degree!

Since you are mostly attracted to the looks of the vehicle, I would recommend that you try to get some seat time in one (if you haven't already) to make sure you know what you are trading off in creature comforts. Personally, the only time I think a Viper ***** as a daily driver is in heavy stop and go traffic. Working that heavy clutch can get old quick.

As far as prices go, specialty cars like the Viper are never accurately reflected in the books. It can move quite a bit based on the economy and other considerations. $40K will get you into one, though your options will be pretty limited.

--- Ken

 

[BlueGTS]

Vipers are not just about speed. There are tons of cars that can be made much faster for half the money. If speed is what everyone here was after, we all picked a very inefficient way to get it. What I think the Viper has is the ability to stir emotion. It obviously has stirred some in you and that has brought you here. If you choose to use the Viper just for its esthetic value, why not, that is as good a reason as any.

This emotion is the same reason you cannot go by blue book to determine the value of any sports car. Blue book uses an algorithm to depreciate all cars. KBB is useful for assessing the value of your Camera or Taurus not your Viper or 360 Modena. They do not take into account that some sports cars hold their value more than others due to their high desirability.

With that said there has never been a better time to buy a Viper as prices are rock bottom. 30-40k will get you a Gen 1. You should be able to find a good example for 40k. If you wanted a coupe you should look to spend at least 45k. I just looked up my GTS in KBB: with 2000 miles on the clock it has it valued at $35,390.

 

[slaughterj]

1)Assuming I have no more than 40K (I’d prefer 30K), what is a good way to determine a fair price? The reason I ask is because Kelly’s Blue Book numbers and the asking prices of used vipers (from a personal sale) do not match. Are vipers commanding a higher market value? If so/why?

KBB, Edmunds, etc. are not usually good indicators of the Viper marketplace. Better indicators are the classifieds on this board, autotrader.com, and cars.com, with the posted prices usually having some negotiating room.

2)Are there certain years/models that you would recommend given my price restrictions and use description?

For your price range, you are looking at a gen1 Viper (1992-1995) - you will really want to familiarize yourself with them, including their removable windows & top, head gasket issues with some, etc. I'm sure there are some up in Michigan who would let you check them out so you would know what you are getting yourself into. You might want to post your rough location to facilitate that.

3)Am I crazy to consider this purchase, given the fact that the viper is about speed and that’s not my primary concern? In other words, would I disappoint fellow viper owners should I decide not to race it? I mean, I’ll be doing things like grocery shopping in it, lol. I realize I’m trading the creature comforts other 40K cars would offer, but I’m sooooooo hooked on the look of this **** beast! For those of you who drive your vipers more than 5,000 miles a year,what are the drawbacks?

It's not a crazy consideration, at least you'd be using the car rather than it being a garage queen like some people here I drive mine about 20k miles per year, and the maintenance costs are fairly high, including oil changes, tires, etc., and parts are expensive - all a consideration if much use is planned. An extended warranty is highly desirable, though infrequently available on a gen1 Viper.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

I've gone to the grocery store & easily put in 10 bags of groceries in my GTS - 6 in the back and 4 in the passenger seat area. You're probably short enough to where you can choose between the RT-10 (convertible) & the GTS (coupe) - I'm too tall for the RT-10 (unless it never rains anymore). There is much less room for groceries in the RT-10, but on nice days it's a top off (not down) convertible.

The earlier Vipers (Gen.I) ran from '92-'96 in the RT-10 series. They are true sports cars and are somewhat brutally primative. The '96 RT-10 is a transition car to to the semi-civilised Gen.II Vipers.

The '96 GTS is the start of the Gen.II Vipers (the '97 RT-10 is the start of the Gen.II Vipers in the RT-10 series). These Vipers have a more powerfull engine and some (not many) creature comforts. The last two years - '01 & '02 - also had ABS, but these are above your budget for now.

Check the classified ad section here for a good idea what the prices are these days. You can usually find a Viper Club member to check out an out of town Viper for you. Also, there are several highly reputable dealers out there that you can trust. Newer Vipers may have a warranty or one can be purchased for it. Pick either the RT-10 or the GTS and then pick your favorite color - most Viper colors were only available for 2 years or less, except for a few. There's a chart on colors and years here in this forum at http://www.viperclub.org/menus/index_ivr.htm

And it is good to drive your Viper slowly, so other people can see the **** styling of it rather that a fast moving streak.

 

[Magicboy2]

BlueGTS,
Well said!

My tips:
Do a search on the board, as there is plenty of good information for prospective Viper owners.

For under $40k you're definately looking at a '93-'95 RT/10. I'd second the idea of getting some seat time to sample the lack of creature comforts.

I bought my Viper for pretty much the same reasons as you're giving. I live in a very developed area with no good roads nearly to even come close to opening the car up. So what. It's a Viper and it's a blast to cruise around town in.

It sounds like you are in the exact same boat I was in a few months back before I took the plunge. Shoot me an email ([email protected]) and I can give you more details on how my buying process went and what motivated my decisions.

-Matt
94 RT/10 (from Bill P)

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

You didn’t say if you wanted a RT/10 or a GTS. Either way I’d go for the Gen II for the power windows.

I think prices have bottomed out. I’d try to get one by the end of the year.

Get together with other Viper people and you’ll find someone that can do the scheduled maintenance for you rather than paying big bucks at a dealer. I charge 20 wings and a Coke but Tampa is probably too far for you to drive.

Congrats on the degree. Good luck with the Viper. Welcome.

 

[Buckeye Viper]

40k can probably get you a 93-96 RT/10 or a high mileage 96 GTS (look at autotrader.com)

Keep us posted!!

 

[Tomer]

Congrats on your degree!! And good luck with your search...

As has been mentioned, aside from more technical items such as Gen I headgaskets, the creature comforts may
sway your decision...Specifically the side windows for the Gen Is are not roll up windows, rather side curtains more
like you may see on a jeep with soft top...This can be a pain if you operate in alot of rain...They also can be
less than 100% water proof...My 96 has sliding glass side curtains, I think earlier versions had zippers to open the window...

You will probably want to be sure you get AC...I think AC came standard on 95s and up, but I could be wrong here. Just
be aware that not all earlier models had AC as standard equipment...

Perhaps the biggest factor for daily use could be the ground clearance of the car...Do you have any steep inclines
into your garage/family or good friends houses and driveways/local grocery store...You will quickly get good at navigating
approaches on an angle so you don't scuff the front fascia, but more substantial inclines are just impossible...

Tomer

 

[joe117]

I don't think you will be able to use a Viper as a daily driver in Michigan. I guess you could do it but you won't like it in the bad winter.

I would not consider paying $40k for a low miles Gen1 car. I'd look instead for a higher miles gen2. The perfect condition, low miles, not a scratch, Gen1s are just not worth that kind of money.
This is even more true if you do plan this to be your only car. A year as a daily driver will turn a pristine car into an ordinary car. I don't think anyone should be afraid of a 40k miles Gen2. If it was any other six or seven year old car with 40k miles, everyone would call it a cream puff.

 

[ViperJoe]

NADA is HIGHER than KBB
This is the FIRST time I have found that to be the case where NADA had a higher value on a car.

Cheryl,
Sent you a PM

 

[ThinkingViper]

Thanks to all who responded, with special thanks to:

Matt~ for giving me his phone number (I called too!).
Ken~ for suggesting MORE seat time, I think I should do just that! lol.
Blue~ for understanding my emotional connection (after all, I am a girl hehehehe).
Slaughter~ for verifying I'm not crazy (although that's debatable)
Sun~ for confirming I actually can get Milk and bread at the SAME time in the beast
Chuck~ for inviting me to Tampa ;-)
Buckeye~ for sending me to autotrader (and I actually read your post even though I'm a wolverine)
Tomer- For reminding me that I really do need to change jobs (their driveway bites)
Joe- Sending me in the direction of Gen2 (ps, I can't even drive the stealth in a Michigan winter)

And finally
lookin- for the private message (but I'm a loyal viper lady)

You have been wonderful...... thanks for the smiles, and I will keep you posted!

Over and out (for now)
Cheryl

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Slaughter~ for verifying I'm not crazy (although that's debatable)

Slaughter and I have dated every available woman on Earth and can unequivocally state that they are all nuts.

Apologies if you're single, but it's true.

 

[ThinkingViper]

Hey Chuck..... I'm single and a shrink.... makes me the nuttiest of the nuts (PS- It's not a coincidence you hear the theme song from jaws playing in your head at the moment ;-).

Please keep the comments/suggestions coming! You guys are GRRRRRRRRRrrrrreat!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Oh Gawd, a shrink???!!! "Why do you think that?" "Why did you say that?" "Why did you do that?"

Please, no analysis. Just diagnose me as the shallowest man you’ve ever known and send me the bill.

 

[Birvini]

You have a pm.

 

[Seifer]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2412801598&category=6209


In 7 hours you can have a black rt with 37800 Miles!

 

[slaughterj]

Slaughter~ for verifying I'm not crazy (although that's debatable)

Ah, but I only said your consideration of a viper purchase wasn't crazy, I said nothing about you See Chuck's post for more info

 

[slaughterj]

Slaughter~ for verifying I'm not crazy (although that's debatable)

Slaughter and I have dated every available woman on Earth and can unequivocally state that they are all nuts.

Apologies if you're single, but it's true.

But at least some are less crazy than others

 

[95Viper]

Cheryl, I like the Buckeye/Wolverine comment. Just paid for season tickets and am pleased that's an odd year with that game on the schedule again. I'm still bruised from last year. Craig

 

[VPRVENM97]

Cheryl,
Welcome! You've come to the right place to get the scoop on one wicked ride. This is a great place to gather intel on your future beast. Another good resource is your local VCA chapter Motor City VCA . Attend one of their monthly meetings. You'll be able to talk to Viper owners and see the different years, styles and accessories in person. I'm sure you'll find plenty of members who'll take you out for a spin. Once you get snake bit, there is no cure...

BTW, congrats on your PHD. Have you developed a psychological profile any of the members of this board? Feel free to start a new thread and share the results of your evaluation.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

BTW, congrats on your PHD. Have you developed a psychological profile any of the members of this board? Feel free to start a new thread and share the results of your evaluation.

Oh boy. Can't wait for that one. LOL

 

[ThinkingViper]

Vprven, I do, in fact, have two psychological profiles completed.
1) Chuck: "He's the shallowest man alive", (Chuck, that will be 60K so I can combine it with my pennies and get a super sweeeeet viper with bells and a whistle!).
2)95Viper: "Perfect Bill of Health" (since you hold Michigan season tickets that will be no charge).

Thanks for the fun, but I have another serious question. And please forgive me if I offend anyone (which I probably will , BUT... if I were to buy a mustard/ketchup combo how much should it cost to change out the wheels (like immediately or yesterday whichever comes sooner)? I'm assuming this can't be done with my Sally Hansen chrome colored nail polish, so......

Opinions: Should I go with new wheels? If I go with new wheels what about 18's? or powder coat? Used wheels? any other options? Estimated prices? Recommendations for the Michigan area?

Thanks again!!!!!

 

[95Viper]

I like my profile. Watch the classified on THIS webpage. Deals come along ALL the time. I got great deals on slicks, rear rims and exhaust. Go with 18" especially since the tires are about two dollars a piece now (ticked off 17" owner).

Store the originals in case you ever trade for another Viper, many people like those yellow wheels.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

If you think I'm giving you 60K for a diagnosis that every available woman on Earth has already filed then you're the one that needs a shrink!

Going rate for used stock wheels, any size or Gen is 2K. Hang onto the yellows.

 

[Gerald]

Oh No, a single woman and Chuck is on the loose! If you come to Florida , Chuck better invite me out too! WINGHOUSE!

Gerald

 

[slaughterj]

I like my profile. Watch the classified on THIS webpage. Deals come along ALL the time. I got great deals on slicks, rear rims and exhaust. Go with 18" especially since the tires are about two dollars a piece now (ticked off 17" owner).

As a fellow ticked off 17" owner, I think I should mention that for 18", only the rears are low priced, fronts are still about the same.

 

[genXgts]

For what it's worth, I would strongly recommend a flight out to Vegas for a few hundred bucks. Rent an Rt/10 like your zeroing in on for the day and hit the mountains.

Gives a great feeling for how the car drives/handles much beyond a 30 minute test drive or a ride in another member's car.

In the overall scheme of things, a thousand bucks to determine if you even want the car is money well spent.


Sidenote: My shallowness is 2nd only to Chucks, I've had the Wings with him, sometimes he drives one to the winghouse, parks it, walks home and grabs the other one as well. Showboater.......

 

[CalmRon]

I would take genXgts’s advice about renting a Viper. You never know, you may not like it. Then again, my wife rented me a Viper for my birthday last year and I haven’t been able to stop thinking about owning one since.

 

[Daffy Duck Viper]

After having driven a Viper for your birthday, would you say you are still calm? lol

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images