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New viper will handle low boost supercharger and turbo kits!!!

Discussion in 'Generation V Discussions / SRT Coupe, GTS, GTC, AC' started by V10lover, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. V10lover

    V10lover Viper Owner

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    Right, but that does not mean that you are the absolute voice of truth. Like I said in my 1st post and will say it again. I do respect your opinion even tough a car like that cannot take 4.5lbs of boost in a conservative tune seems to me like a reason to completely disagree of you since the pistons/rods are not cast made. Please, read the mustang example that I wrote about previously and take it seriously. Those POS can take boost and don't have the high quality metals that these new viper engine have and more than surpass the power level of 100hp/L with good engine longevity.

    Also, other tuners might have different opinions than yours(doug levin who post it said would be okay to add low boost to these cars) and I respect them too. Does that mean he is wrong or you?

    Of course not, there are different approaches and recepies for different engines and ways of modyfing it. Some might work, some won't but at the end of the day there is not only one way of doing things right.

    Lastly, I am not arguing with anyone but keep on laughing because if somebody supercharge one of this new gen5 vipers and make it work you might take something from it..

    Have a nice day!
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012
  2. V10lover

    V10lover Viper Owner

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    I bet they are ESL also thought me not to spend my money on huge TT projects made by amateurs because they are a huge waste of money.:crazy2:
     
  3. Paolo Castellano

    Paolo Castellano Enthusiast

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    V10 lover, ESL = English Second Lannguage..... I was giving you a compliment.
     
  4. Moundir

    Moundir Enthusiast

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    Talking to Ralph at the show he HINTED that the engine is "forged" for a reason and that we will be able to tune the car! This is when I got on my knees and begged him to release the software codes for the gen 4. He said maybe, with a big smile! From talking to him he knows that there is a huge market for modding and that mopar is gonna have a huge part in the new snake!!! :headbang::headbang:
     
  5. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

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    Yeah... it is "forged" because they had engine failures in the ACRX's at that horsepower level on the Gen-4 hypereutectic pistons. They had to do something... hence why the ACRX's had those pistons for a while now.

    I HIGHLY doubt Mopar will ever release the code. I have long said that Mopar intends to try and use its influence and leverage as a manufacturer to try and move in on the aftermarket in some of the more economical areas to do so. The coding in the Gen-4+ is their "upper hand" so to speak that allows them to more easily do things than the aftermarket can when talking about the low-moderate end of builds. If you think they will give up this advantage if they have the intention of doing the aforementioned, I am afraid you are mistaken.
     
  6. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

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    I never claimed to be the "absolute voice of truth"... but who else in this thread has their own Gen-4 engine platform, builds Gen-4 race engines for US-GTU, and has their own version of the Gen-4 engine conversion? If you aren't going to take my opinion for what its worth, that's your choice. This engine is not released yet, and is still subject to change of course. However, you need to understand that a lot more goes into making a reliable package than just simple numbers and a few key words like "Forged".

    There is a difference between Forged Powdered Metal and Forged Steel that you need to account for before you continue to make comments on the Viper engines "Forged Internals". They are NOT forged in the sense that you seem to think they are. You also need to understand that even though the pistons in the Gen-5 are likely a forged component, the MATERIAL and DESIGN matters just as much as the process used to manufacture them. They are more than likely a "Forged" high-silicon component, just like the ACRX's forged pistons. In fact, I would bet they are the EXACT same part. If you understood the reasoning that manufacturers used in these decisions, you would know that it is a tested part in the ACRX, it is made by Mahle -their typical piston manufacturer anyway- and its design and material would minimally impact the environmental concerns in passing any required emissions testing. This part is stronger than Gen-4, but it is BY NO MEANS what any competent shop or manufacturer would use in an 900+ horsepower forced induction engine. And that, is exactly what you would get around 5PSI on this engine. You are also not taking into account that the hardware used in the engine was never intended to handle such loads. The final product would not be reliable from my standpoint.

    Look at it this way: The Gen-4 pistons, a known weak point, have had failures at STOCK horsepower levels. The ACRX pistons were used as the "fix". Do you really think knowing that the Gen-4 parts are already near their limit, that the ACRX pistons can reliably handle 150%+ of the stresses that the Gen-4 pistons can handle in an N/A application, in a boosted application instead where detonation and temps are a real threat? I have both of them sitting less than 20 feet from me, if you would like a direct comparison between the two parts.

    With regard to your Mustang comments... we are talking apples to oranges here. The Mustang engine is making HALF the power, in a shorter block, with more stable hardware, at a higher RPM, and with a considerably smaller bore size reducing its detonation potential greatly. You cannot directly compare these two engine styles in the way that you are trying to. You are also not realizing that the rods in that mustang engine are Forged Steel, not forged Powdered Metal like they are in the Viper. This also adds to their durability in the case of potential detonation issues. Horsepower production and stresses are not a simple algebraic equation that can just be derived on a whim based on Boost and CI.



    Doug Levin never said that it would be OK to add boost to this engine in stock form, with no changes, and with no ability to tune it. All he said was that he thinks the platform would work well with boost. He is right- the Gen-4's were the most boost-responsive Viper engines yet. But, they were not without their platform difficulties of course, and to my knowledge nobody was ever crazy enough to add boost to a stock Gen-4 engine.



    What this all really comes down to is that you are free to do or think anything you want. I personally would never recommend doing what you are suggesting and expect it to last very long. There is a gigantic difference between what can be done and what is a good idea. You claim that you respect my opinion, yet you try desperately to convince me that it can be done reliably and pit me against another tuner by way of your interpretation of his comment/opinion.

    My opinion is that its not a good idea. Please respect that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2012
  7. Moundir

    Moundir Enthusiast

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    Although I agree with you, i for one would like to be optimistic that even if they don't release the code to the tuners they will at least offer the gen 4 some power options at last!! Yes we gen 4 owners are at their mercy, but we will take anything at this point!
     
  8. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

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    I would say that they will more than likely offer Gen-5-like manifold upgrades in order to compete with porting options, and more than likely computer changes for various moderate modifications that they will offer.

    No matter what, it will likely be limited. It is highly unlikely that a manufacturer would want to get involved with end users directly on any large scale. It would be a customer service disaster for them to do so. Bolt-On parts and packages are one thing, but tuning is a very sticky area.
     
  9. Paolo Castellano

    Paolo Castellano Enthusiast

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    Did anybody get a picture of this????? LOL!
     
  10. Moundir

    Moundir Enthusiast

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    no, but it would have been awesome lol.. Here are a few shots I do have with him....

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

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