obaa996
Enthusiast
Hi all, and season's greetings!
My name's Mike. I joined this board about a week ago, and have been lurking around, searching the archives and watching the current threads before asking any repetitive questions. I'm yet another newbie looking for more information before I take the plunge into buying a Viper. I'll warn that this is very long winded, but I would really appreciate any help/advice you folks can provide.
I'm partial to the 92-95 RT's, as I love the sidepipes and open top. Conveniently enough, they also just happen to fall just within my budget (mid to upper 30's. I couldn't afford a GTS anyway....) I went though the archives looking for faqs on purchasing/inspection a used Viper, and didn't see anything formal, but was able to glean a few things and compiled a list on my own (BTW, I'm willing to formalize this into a faq, as it seems to be a recurrent thread....). I itemized them below, and would appreciate it if you folks could look it over and let me know if there is anything glaring which I left out. Also, I do have a few questions on some of the things I found, and was hoping you folks could help me answer....
A basic inspection (Viper specific) list:
1) check engine for coolant/head gasket leaks
2) look for maintenance records (what's the service schedule?)
3) verify with Dodge dealer that internal computer data matches odometer (is this true for all Vipers?)
4) inspect door panels for wear not matching mileage (at what age/mileage do they start looking noticeably worn?)
5) check the hood for cracking/splits; very expensive to replace
6) check for all parts for top, windows (how many parts are there?)
7) check for all ancillary parts (window sticker, owners man, warranty book, toolkit)
8) make sure all keys/remotes are present
9) examine the sidepipes for bubbling sills
10) rubber all over wheelwells (indications of drag racing)
The biggest issue that seems to come with the early Vipers is the head gasket/engine rebuild. I read a lot of comments that dealing with the head gaskets was more of a "when" issue, rather than an "if" issue. Rebuilding the entire engine was less common, but a seemingly "desireable" event. My question is how well the engines hold up after the head gaskets are replaced, or engine is rebuilt. Are the engines dead bang reliable after the repairs? Are there many cases of further engine issues after these repairs, or can I reasonably expect a long service life after the gaskets are replaced? How reasonable is Dodge in making repairs under warranty? For instance, say I purchase a used Viper that's still under warranty, and discover coolant leaks and the telltale coolant trail. Can I simply bring it to Dodge and expect that they will take care of it? Or will they fight me tooth and nail, claiming prior owner abuse, poor maintenance, etc.? What would I need to show them? I'm just trying to avoid walking into a potential $14k bill if I can avoid it... =;^)
The other big issue I can think of with a used Viper is abuse/previous damage. With all that power, it's hard to imagine any owner not tempted to test it. Thus, I can easily imagine a Viper which has been wrecked and pieced back together (there are always several on ebay in just such a condition). Are there any good telltale signs that a Viper has been wrecked and put back together? Are body panels numbered such that you can tell what's original/replaced? Are there typical areas or weak spots which show damage that aren't replaced during repair(for instance, suspension pickups which are straightened rather than replaced)? My understanding is that the entire body is composite, and that pieces are rarely identical from car to car, so that seam alignment isn't a good indicator.
Given the rarity of the car, I'm pretty resigned to looking for one from out of the area. I've seen several in various ads that look promising, but they are pretty far away (Los Angeles, Bakersfield, Boston, Chicago, and FL). Is there a listing of recommended certified Viper technicians for various areas? Or even qualified independent technicians. It seems a lot of places are scared of looking at them. For instance, I called a dealership with a certified tech. that was local to one of the cars I was interested in, in order to schedule a pre-purchase inspection. They (a Dodge dealer!) refused, on the grounds that they were afraid of incurring the liability asscociated the inspection(?) It'd certainly make me wonder how qualified they are to actually service one!
Vipers don't seem very common in the PDX area. I've only seen less than 10 in the past several years. However, judging from the posts, there appear to be alot of Viper owners in the PDX area (say, within 60 mile radius). Is there an active club in the region? With other marques, I've noticed that active clubs provide the best support for any newbie. I've met Richie (hard to miss him... =8^), but haven't found any other owners. Also there any reliable/competent certified Viper techs in this area? I've seen Vipers at Dick's, Timberline, and Bryan Bickmore, but they only appear regularly at Dick's and Timberline, and I have no idea what the two service dept. are like. After having an oil change done by a certified "master tech" in a 5-star Chrysler dealer, and leaving the service bay with no oil in the pan, I'm leering of any official labels, and trust only real references.
I'm planning on using this car as my daily driver. While the weather tends to be mild up here, there are occasionally some pretty hot, nasty days. I've read that Viper cockpits can get very toasty. How important is it to get a/c in a Viper. Is the system effective? My commute is stop-n-go for about 25 minutes, and my Jeep (no a/c either) gets plenty toasty, although the top doesn't come off, so ventilation is limited. My understanding is that all '94 and newer Vipers are "pre-plumbed" for a/c. How difficult and expensive would it be to retrofit an a/c system into a car that didn't come with one? Is it even possible?
How are Vipers in the rain? I read a recent thread about someone who lost the rear end and spun his snake in the rain. It rains quite a bit in the PNW, and most of the roads I frequent have severely grooved surfaces with standing water. I've hydroplaned on those roads with all my current cars. How much worse would a Viper be? It doesn't seem that the tire sizes and tread patterns were optimized for foul weather. Along the same lines, how weather proof are the different soft/hard top options? How do the factory/Vmania/Henessey/etc. hardtops rank in terms of weatherproofness and ease of install, and are the factory softtops suitable for any regular usage (or are they emergency only?)?
What are service costs like? From what I've read, there's a service interval at 20k, and it seems that tires, clutch (at 20k!?!), fluids, and other maintenance work typically comes due at 20k. Coincidentally, a lot of cars that are for sale have about 20k miles on them. Are the service costs that extreme that people are selling them just short of having to pay for the service work on the cars? I've seen that this is pretty common with Ferrari people.....
Finally, the million dollar question: What kind of pricing (real world values) should I expect on a good quality car? The pricing seems to vary all over the map.... I see local pricing around $40k, although I've seen out of area prices anywhere from the low 30's to mid 40's. According to Edmunds and KBB, the cars are worth from the high 20's to mid 30's. Obviously, there is some misconnect here.... From general forum comments, it looks like the prices on the early cars is dropping rapidly with the SRT (probably also combined with winter weather). If so, then should I be adhering to the price guides (given that they typically show higher than market valuation for other cars I've looked at)? Since I'm in the market for one, I'd like to believe the lower valuation is correct, although that tune will rapidly change once I join the ranks of owners!
Thanks for all the help everyone!
Mike
My name's Mike. I joined this board about a week ago, and have been lurking around, searching the archives and watching the current threads before asking any repetitive questions. I'm yet another newbie looking for more information before I take the plunge into buying a Viper. I'll warn that this is very long winded, but I would really appreciate any help/advice you folks can provide.
I'm partial to the 92-95 RT's, as I love the sidepipes and open top. Conveniently enough, they also just happen to fall just within my budget (mid to upper 30's. I couldn't afford a GTS anyway....) I went though the archives looking for faqs on purchasing/inspection a used Viper, and didn't see anything formal, but was able to glean a few things and compiled a list on my own (BTW, I'm willing to formalize this into a faq, as it seems to be a recurrent thread....). I itemized them below, and would appreciate it if you folks could look it over and let me know if there is anything glaring which I left out. Also, I do have a few questions on some of the things I found, and was hoping you folks could help me answer....
A basic inspection (Viper specific) list:
1) check engine for coolant/head gasket leaks
2) look for maintenance records (what's the service schedule?)
3) verify with Dodge dealer that internal computer data matches odometer (is this true for all Vipers?)
4) inspect door panels for wear not matching mileage (at what age/mileage do they start looking noticeably worn?)
5) check the hood for cracking/splits; very expensive to replace
6) check for all parts for top, windows (how many parts are there?)
7) check for all ancillary parts (window sticker, owners man, warranty book, toolkit)
8) make sure all keys/remotes are present
9) examine the sidepipes for bubbling sills
10) rubber all over wheelwells (indications of drag racing)
The biggest issue that seems to come with the early Vipers is the head gasket/engine rebuild. I read a lot of comments that dealing with the head gaskets was more of a "when" issue, rather than an "if" issue. Rebuilding the entire engine was less common, but a seemingly "desireable" event. My question is how well the engines hold up after the head gaskets are replaced, or engine is rebuilt. Are the engines dead bang reliable after the repairs? Are there many cases of further engine issues after these repairs, or can I reasonably expect a long service life after the gaskets are replaced? How reasonable is Dodge in making repairs under warranty? For instance, say I purchase a used Viper that's still under warranty, and discover coolant leaks and the telltale coolant trail. Can I simply bring it to Dodge and expect that they will take care of it? Or will they fight me tooth and nail, claiming prior owner abuse, poor maintenance, etc.? What would I need to show them? I'm just trying to avoid walking into a potential $14k bill if I can avoid it... =;^)
The other big issue I can think of with a used Viper is abuse/previous damage. With all that power, it's hard to imagine any owner not tempted to test it. Thus, I can easily imagine a Viper which has been wrecked and pieced back together (there are always several on ebay in just such a condition). Are there any good telltale signs that a Viper has been wrecked and put back together? Are body panels numbered such that you can tell what's original/replaced? Are there typical areas or weak spots which show damage that aren't replaced during repair(for instance, suspension pickups which are straightened rather than replaced)? My understanding is that the entire body is composite, and that pieces are rarely identical from car to car, so that seam alignment isn't a good indicator.
Given the rarity of the car, I'm pretty resigned to looking for one from out of the area. I've seen several in various ads that look promising, but they are pretty far away (Los Angeles, Bakersfield, Boston, Chicago, and FL). Is there a listing of recommended certified Viper technicians for various areas? Or even qualified independent technicians. It seems a lot of places are scared of looking at them. For instance, I called a dealership with a certified tech. that was local to one of the cars I was interested in, in order to schedule a pre-purchase inspection. They (a Dodge dealer!) refused, on the grounds that they were afraid of incurring the liability asscociated the inspection(?) It'd certainly make me wonder how qualified they are to actually service one!
Vipers don't seem very common in the PDX area. I've only seen less than 10 in the past several years. However, judging from the posts, there appear to be alot of Viper owners in the PDX area (say, within 60 mile radius). Is there an active club in the region? With other marques, I've noticed that active clubs provide the best support for any newbie. I've met Richie (hard to miss him... =8^), but haven't found any other owners. Also there any reliable/competent certified Viper techs in this area? I've seen Vipers at Dick's, Timberline, and Bryan Bickmore, but they only appear regularly at Dick's and Timberline, and I have no idea what the two service dept. are like. After having an oil change done by a certified "master tech" in a 5-star Chrysler dealer, and leaving the service bay with no oil in the pan, I'm leering of any official labels, and trust only real references.
I'm planning on using this car as my daily driver. While the weather tends to be mild up here, there are occasionally some pretty hot, nasty days. I've read that Viper cockpits can get very toasty. How important is it to get a/c in a Viper. Is the system effective? My commute is stop-n-go for about 25 minutes, and my Jeep (no a/c either) gets plenty toasty, although the top doesn't come off, so ventilation is limited. My understanding is that all '94 and newer Vipers are "pre-plumbed" for a/c. How difficult and expensive would it be to retrofit an a/c system into a car that didn't come with one? Is it even possible?
How are Vipers in the rain? I read a recent thread about someone who lost the rear end and spun his snake in the rain. It rains quite a bit in the PNW, and most of the roads I frequent have severely grooved surfaces with standing water. I've hydroplaned on those roads with all my current cars. How much worse would a Viper be? It doesn't seem that the tire sizes and tread patterns were optimized for foul weather. Along the same lines, how weather proof are the different soft/hard top options? How do the factory/Vmania/Henessey/etc. hardtops rank in terms of weatherproofness and ease of install, and are the factory softtops suitable for any regular usage (or are they emergency only?)?
What are service costs like? From what I've read, there's a service interval at 20k, and it seems that tires, clutch (at 20k!?!), fluids, and other maintenance work typically comes due at 20k. Coincidentally, a lot of cars that are for sale have about 20k miles on them. Are the service costs that extreme that people are selling them just short of having to pay for the service work on the cars? I've seen that this is pretty common with Ferrari people.....
Finally, the million dollar question: What kind of pricing (real world values) should I expect on a good quality car? The pricing seems to vary all over the map.... I see local pricing around $40k, although I've seen out of area prices anywhere from the low 30's to mid 40's. According to Edmunds and KBB, the cars are worth from the high 20's to mid 30's. Obviously, there is some misconnect here.... From general forum comments, it looks like the prices on the early cars is dropping rapidly with the SRT (probably also combined with winter weather). If so, then should I be adhering to the price guides (given that they typically show higher than market valuation for other cars I've looked at)? Since I'm in the market for one, I'd like to believe the lower valuation is correct, although that tune will rapidly change once I join the ranks of owners!
Thanks for all the help everyone!
Mike
![newbie[1].gif](/vca/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fvca1.viperclub.org%2Fubb%2Fsmilies%2Fnewbie%5B1%5D.gif&hash=d23080a513da30e4e851fd8f6c357a1e)
Good luck on your hunt. The Viper is pretty much pure fun!
