Power adder questions

[Nates GTS Viper]

I have a 96 GTS with belanger headers, rt high flow cats, corsa catback, b&m shifter, and 3.55 gears. I tried searching and couldnt find the type of answers I was looking for. What im looking for is a dependable setup that I can drag race on the weekend with and something that will beat my buddys lightly modded 06 z06 all day everyday. I would like to get around 600-700 rwhp but still be able to take it on long trips. I really dont mind going one way or the other I just need some opinions on how people like there setup. My thoughts are cpe sidemount turbo kit, paxton(which i searched and cant find any feedback on), roe blower, or nitrous. I also am going to do the work myself this coming winter so please take that into consideration too. If you have anything to say about any of the systems good or bad please let me know along with if there are other things needed to run the kit. Thanks again for all your help.

 

[99 R/T 10]

If you are going to do the work yourself, Roe all the way. Paxton is better left with the pros. If you will have a lot of down time during the winter, CPE is an option too. It will take longer to do.

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

I live in Va so Ill have a couple months downtime during the winter. Also what is the lag like with the cpe turbos, and would my gears hurt or help with that. Thanks again

 

[Kenneth Krieger]

Nate......installed the Paxton on my Gen III myself, and I am NOT a pro by any means. It's a great kit with good R & D, and the results were very, very good. I am pleased with the performance in the city and long runs on the highway......went on long Route 66 cruise in May and for the 370 mile round trip averaged.....yes averaged 22.4 mpg. Ran in 6th gear all day long (I also have 3:55's) and watched the heavy foot. The car runs in the low 10:40's high 10:30's and is a blast........just another thing for the mix.

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

thanks kenneth for the feedback. I know you gen 3 guys love the paxton but never really read anything about the gen 2s. Would it do basically the same thing and how does the boost and power come on with the setup. Thanks again and all inpt is very welcome. Oh and hows the launch with the gears and paxton, do they make it hard or is it not that bad.

 

[MacManInfi]

Hi Nate. I have a Gen 2 and just finished the Paxton install myself a few weeks ago. Install was actually pretty easy, but it did take a considerable amount of time. I worked on it during the weekends. Took about a month to complete the install, so ~8 days. I'm sure other people can do it faster, but I really took my time, cleaned everything, made sure everything was done right.

A few things worth noting: I used Roe's crank pin kit instead of Paxtons. Cost less than $10 I think and it's a MUCH better pin kit. I also put an ATI harmonic balancer on there, in place of the cast factory balancer and went ahead and took the opportunity to swap in Dave's new Power Steering pulley in place of the stock plastic one. All of the above mentioned things you should really do with any power adder, btw.

I have no worries about the reliability of the Paxton unit and am confident driving my car. Yes, it's fast as hell now. Launching is still easy because the power builds as the rpm's climb. I am running Kumho's though, so the tires stick like crazy.

It made 600rwhp out of the box with no tuning. A/F ratio looked good on the dyno. I know you can get more with a tune, maybe I'll take it to DC soon, just having too much fun with it at the moment.

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[MacManInfi]

Also, if you're curious, I took photos and summarized the install process on my web page. There are some extra steps in there though, because I did stuff like swap upper intakes, but it's probably worth a look if you're considering doing the install. I'm glad that I did because now I know how everything works, and where all the hoses go, etc.
Viper Supercharger

 

[chimazo]

MacManInfi,
Thanks for posting pics and your website link! I would like to do the same to my GEN2 next spring if I can find the $$. I did my own Procharger installation on my Z06, taking my time and just working on it when I had a chance, so this would be my second go-round with a centri.

On thing I don't understand is why with the same head unit and same exact engine, some tuners are getting 800+rwhp out of it. Are the AEM and fuel system upgrades responsible for the 200hp difference?? They must be using a different pulley on the blower, too, I figure. Have you talked with any vendors about using the SCT to tune rather than the pricey AEM? Does the Paxton come with a set of injectors? I ran 60lb'ers on my Z06 and sold the ones that came with the kit.

Anyway, it looks like you did a great job and I sure do miss the sound of a blower's whistle.

 

[MacManInfi]

I've heard of people getting 640 at the wheels with the normal Paxton kit, a tune and headers. Beyond that, you're talking about upping the boost (stock kit is only 7psi.), installing a new fuel system (bigger injectors with fuel rails, fuel pump, dunno if there's more), and yeah, probably AEM or SCT in the least.

My understanding is that $15,000 will get you 1000rwhp using the Paxton kit as a base from Underground Racing. Not bad considering the initial cost of the Paxton kit is quite high, and there is a lot of work to install it. If I didn't live in California and need to have the car smogged, I might have gone down that road. But the stock Paxton kit is CARB legal, and for that, I'm super grateful.

DC Performance just started using the SCT to tune all of their supercharged vipers. Sounds like a great system. Again, if I go to have mine tuned, that's where I'll go. Dunno how much to expect out of the tune. Probably worth a phone call to find out. The car just runs so good right now...

A few other items worth noting. Doug Levin sells a larger heat exchanger and better flowing water pump. The Paxton kit is o.k. for some extra ooomf on the street, but it does heat soak really quickly. Last week I made two dyno pulls, the second one made 30 hp less just because of the heat soak. I'm running a ScangaugeII which allows me to monitor the air intake temps. They'll drop on the freeway, but climb quite high around town.

I'll be upgrading the heat exchanger on mine soon and will be able to see if/how much it affects the air temps. I'm going with the water pump from the Ford Lightning. It's a reliable, high flowing pump and only runs about $90 on ebay. I'm also going with an 03 Cobra heat exchanger with two 6" pusher fans for extra cooling at slow speeds. Should be a nice set up. The heat exchanger and pump are on their way, but the fans are on back order for a few more weeks. I'll post the results when I get it all done.

On the blower whistle, you know, on my Cobra, I had the Vortech SQ drive (quiet version). You couldn't ever hear it. Now after driving around for a few weeks with the Novi2000, I feel like I really missed out on those great sounds back then. I absolutely love the sound!

 

[MacManInfi]

Oh, also, the Paxton does not come with new injectors. It uses a FCU to block the return fuel line, building up to 100 psi at redline, forcing more fuel through the stock injectors. I imagine that's one of the reasons it's still CARB legal. I don't think it'll run any different than stock during the smog test. Won't be in boost.

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

Thanks so much MacManInfi you helped out greatly. I was thinking about the TT Kit from cpe but your input has me thinking again. It looks good Ill get to keep my headers, will be able to do it myself, makes great power out of the box but can also up the power if needed, reliable, and cost isnt to great. If you dont mind I have just a few more questions.
What will a 600rwhp paxon run in the 1/8th and 1/4 mile
When does the power come on and will 3.55 gears help or hurt me
How loud is the wistle from the novi2000

Thanks again for taking the time to let me know your thoughts on the kit Ill be checking out your link in a minute.

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

One more question, do you happen to have a dyno sheet you could post up. Thanks

 

[chimazo]

Another question to add to Nates - were there any permanent alterations necessary (cutting, drilling, etc.)? Could the car be returned to stock (for when perhaps, you'd trade it in or whatever)?

 

[MacManInfi]

The whistle isn't all that loud, but you can hear it from inside the car. It's probably quite noticeable outside while driving around town. Makes a nice whistle when you let off the gas and the rpm's drop down. I can do a recording if you want.

On the permanent alterations question, there are only a few minor changes. Gotta drill a few screw holes for mounting the cooler resevoir and filler. Gotta cut three holes (1 1/4" I think it was) in some of the plastic behind the front bumper to route the water cooler lines. Drill a couple holes for mounting the fuel pumps. That's about it though. Oh, and a few wires would need to be reconnected on the computer. Would be easy to return it to stock and 99% of the people out there would never notice the few holes left behind.

This is pretty cool, I overlayed the supercharger dyno on top of my previous dyno (blue being HP and Torque with supercharger obviously). It's worth noting that it was a solid 90 degrees inside the garage when I dynoed with the blower and the car was pretty warm from driving up to Hungtington Beach. I know it runs a lot stronger in cooler weather, but it is what it is.

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[MacManInfi]

Not sure at all about the 3.55 gears. I would think that the acceleration difference would have to be pretty minor. But say if your goal with the gears is to make 6th gear more usable, then it might be worth it to you. Only drawback I've heard is that you get more bucking around town in first/second gear with the 3.55's, and that's more annoying to me than the usability of 6th gear, so I haven't considered it.

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

Thanks again for your help the dyno graph helps a lot. As for the 3.55s in my car it drives fine in town with no bucking of anykind ever. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[TexasPettey]

With a ROE kit 6lb pulley and Greg Good heads, my Gen1 made 600RWHP. That was with stock throttle bodies being a major restriction.

If you don't mind opening up the motor a bit, I'd suggest heads & a used ROE kit. Used ROE kits pop up every now and again. There's not much to go wrong in the kit, so buying used isn't much of a concern.

At 600-700, you'll want to refresh a number of the components. Hoses, mounts, everything rubber, cooling, etc. are all 12+ years old. Adding 50% HP will put major stress on them no matter what mechanism you use to get there.

 

[MacManInfi]

Thanks again for your help the dyno graph helps a lot. As for the 3.55s in my car it drives fine in town with no bucking of anykind ever. Thanks again for all the help.

That's good to hear.

 

[JUCD VPR]

I say all you need is a little NITROUS. Add a duel nozzle set-up and spray a 150 shot and you'll beat that Z06 all day long. I'm putting down 600/820 on a 150 shot and if I felt like it I can always bump the shot up to get more hp/tq plus it's about 10 times cheaper than a turbo or SC. I drove it down to tennesse last year (800 miles) and had 0 mechanical problems. Plus it's fast and easy to install. Just my opinion as i;ve run nitrous on every fast car i've had since I was 16 (10 yrs ago). Good luck, every option you mentioned is going to be badass and I don;t see that Vette keeping up ever again if you do one of the power adders.

 

[kpham]

I was facing the same decision, and went the paxton path because of the smog regulation in California. It's very quick but doesn't "feel" that fast -- doesn't have that rush of when the turbo kicks in -- it's addictive .

My setup: paxton on creampuff ACR (though Ted told me it's surely not, base on build date and his inspection) with belanger header, high-flow cat, corsa. Have had it back one week now and absolutely love the sound. Lots of whistling/hissing on acceleration, and it pops like nut on deceleration. Not loud below 2rpm, and sound amazing when you floor it.

I spoke to Paolo before this as well. He is very direct, responsive, and knowledgeable. His turbo system looks amazing as well. Would have gone the turbo route if smog wasn't an issue.

 

[MacManInfi]

I've always wanted to do a NOS setup, but have always been scared to do so. Just don't have enough knowledge on the subject and the consequences of not knowing exactly what you're doing seem... bad.

And a turbo, I'll go turbo as soon as someone makes a smog legal kit. I went the rounds with the California smog and referees on my cobra mustang and v8 miata. I'll never go down that road again.

 

[Red Snake]

I have an 8# Roe with T&D Rockers, 70MM TBs and stock heads/cam/bottom end. My car made 635/671 with tuning by PBJ. It feels like a freaking rocket with over 600 ft pounds of torque at 2000 rpms.


The S/C whine is awesome and you can hear it clearly inside or outside the car.

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

Thanks again everyone. Redsnake with all that power off the line do you find it difficult to launch or can you still manage a decent say 60 foot wirthout having to run drag radials or slicks.

 

[Red Snake]

Thanks again everyone. Redsnake with all that power off the line do you find it difficult to launch or can you still manage a decent say 60 foot wirthout having to run drag radials or slicks.

I haven't been to the track with it yet so I don't have a 60 ft time. It's not too hard to launch though. I've learned to roll into it instead of stabbing it. It's amazing how hard it pulls.

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

Thanks again everyone. Redsnake with all that power off the line do you find it difficult to launch or can you still manage a decent say 60 foot wirthout having to run drag radials or slicks.

 

[OVERBOOST]

PM sent...

 

[Nates GTS Viper]

Thanks overboost ill check the vid out when I get home. Wish I could watch them on my BB Curve.

 

[MacManInfi]

It feels like a freaking rocket with over 600 ft pounds of torque at 2000 rpms.

:O That is pretty crazy.