Power levels supported by GEN II's?

[DSG03COBRA]

New guy here thinking about upgrading to a GEN II GTS. My current car is an '03 Cobra w/ a Whipple SC at 17psi putting down 572rwhp.

The car would mainly be for driving, w/ the occasional ass whooping on the expressway for the ricers, and a few trips to the drag strip a year for some safe fun.

I like the idea of ABS, so the '01 - '02's are appealing. On the Cobra's, the pistons weren't the best and had a tendency to seize, so I really like the forged pistons and cams on the '97 - '99's so the block itself will handle craploads of power without extra support.

I'd say my goal for power is about 650rwhp, which I think I can achieve w/ either a Paxton or Roe... So I guess my question is... what power levels can the stock engines in the '97 - '99's and '00 - '02's handle?

 

[yogibayer]

... I like the idea of ABS, so the '00 - '02's are appealing.....

01 and 02 for ABS

 

[DSG03COBRA]

01 and 02 for ABS

My bad... thanks, I've updated my original post.

 

[Zan186]

I don't think you would have any problems getting to 650 rwhp with any Gen II Viper. The Roe might be harder to get to 650rwhp with cast pistons as you are limited on how much boost you can apply. I think the Paxton will give you more with less boost.
I am not a supercharger expert but most of the guys that have them are usually somewhere in the 600 to 700 rwhp range

 

[OVERBOOST]

Stock Paxton setup is around high 500 to low 600 rwhp. Mine is a stock Paxton setup at 620rwhp. Dynoed a few times to get the tune right. AEM and 10 PSI should be low to mid 700rwhp. It's all in the tune. I know that there is someone on here that knows what stock vs tuned high PSI ROE puts out.

 

[1Need4Speed]

Get the 2001 or 02. You can always upgrade the pistons to forge. Too expensive to add the ABS.
My two cents

 

[DEADEYE]

My Roe puts out about 630 at w/ 10 lb pully on h20/ ****.

 

[klamathpro]

If anything over 550 RWHP is your goal, to be safe, you'll either have to get forged pistons for your creampuff (not cheap if done by a Viper tech) or stick with 99 or older and you are good past 800HP. Without supporting mods, a ROE would be tough to get past 600RWHP and even then it might not. Paxton would come close. If 650RWHP is a must, get a TT kit.

 

[DSG03COBRA]

Thanks for all the info everyone, I really appreciate it!

So the pistons in th 01 - 02's are really only good to about 550rwhp? Thought they'd be able to handle more than that.

Also, I guess maybe my goal shouldn't really be RWHP, but rather I'd like to be able to keep stock drivability for daily driving, but then be able to go to the track and run 10's all day long.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

I was more concerned with the strength of the motor than ABS, so I went with my 98 GTS. With headers, rockers, exhaust, intake and 10 psi on my Roe blower, the car made 630/675 on pump gas. Never had any problems whatsoever with the car. It drives the same as it did when it was stock, only faster.

If you have to have ABS, then it is certainly cheaper to swap out forged pistons than it is to try to retrofit ABS brakes. But if you don't have to have ABS, then just go for a 96-99 with forged pistons and the 708 cam. It's a great platform to start from, in my opinion.

 

[DSG03COBRA]

I was more concerned with the strength of the motor than ABS, so I went with my 98 GTS. With headers, rockers, exhaust, intake and 10 psi on my Roe blower, the car made 630/675 on pump gas. Never had any problems whatsoever with the car. It drives the same as it did when it was stock, only faster.

If you have to have ABS, then it is certainly cheaper to swap out forged pistons than it is to try to retrofit ABS brakes. But if you don't have to have ABS, then just go for a 96-99 with forged pistons and the 708 cam. It's a great platform to start from, in my opinion.

Thanks! That's right about where I want to be w/ power. I was thinking about stuff and I guess engine safety is probably going to be more important to me than ABS. I can't actually think of the last time I actually had to get on the brakes so hard that ABS kicked in... though as soon as I don't have it, I'm sure I'll need it.

What kind of times do you run w/ that power level? And do you have the water/**** kit too?

 

[JohnnyBravo]

Thanks! That's right about where I want to be w/ power. I was thinking about stuff and I guess engine safety is probably going to be more important to me than ABS. I can't actually think of the last time I actually had to get on the brakes so hard that ABS kicked in... though as soon as I don't have it, I'm sure I'll need it.

What kind of times do you run w/ that power level? And do you have the water/**** kit too?

Yes, I have the water/methanol kit as well. However, without using the water/****, the car still dyno'd 612/672 on straight 92 octane pump gas. That tells me that there is probably more power to be had in my water/**** tune.

The car went 10.43 @ 137 on drag radials on the 630 rwhp tune. It probably could have gone a little faster, but we had to short shift from 3rd to 4th because it sounded like it had some ping. The pass before on the less aggressive tune (and a less aggressive launch) was 10.58 @ 136. After those two passes, the track officials started getting REALLY interested in the lack of safety equipment, so we called it a day.

New heads are going on sometime next month, along with a few other little goodies. As soon as I get new dyno numbers and track times, I'll post them up.

 

[DSG03COBRA]

Yes, I have the water/methanol kit as well. However, without using the water/****, the car still dyno'd 612/672 on straight 92 octane pump gas. That tells me that there is probably more power to be had in my water/**** tune.

The car went 10.43 @ 137 on drag radials on the 630 rwhp tune. It probably could have gone a little faster, but we had to short shift from 3rd to 4th because it sounded like it had some ping. The pass before on the less aggressive tune (and a less aggressive launch) was 10.58 @ 136. After those two passes, the track officials started getting REALLY interested in the lack of safety equipment, so we called it a day.

New heads are going on sometime next month, along with a few other little goodies. As soon as I get new dyno numbers and track times, I'll post them up.

That's exactly the type of numbers/performance that I want!!!! I may have to pick your brain for the specifics of your setup when I finally pick one up.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

That's exactly the type of numbers/performance that I want!!!! I may have to pick your brain for the specifics of your setup when I finally pick one up.

Anytime. I'm hoping to make enough power with the new heads, throttle bodies, and a touch more boost to put the car in the 9's before the end of the season.

 

[treesnake]

FYI... I have an 01 GTS with 22,000 miles on the car. I put a Roe blower, Vec 2, water/****,T&D' rockers, 70mm throttle bodies,H/O fuel system, gears, new clutch, unitax half shafts and loops bellanger headers....and all the rest of the bolt on mods. 590 rwhp on a conservative tune because of my cast pistons. After about 800 miles with the new mods,(two weeks ago) the engine started feeling weaker and started some oil blow by. It actually blew oil through the oil puke can and all over the engine compartment. I installed a vac pump of an LS-1 camaro and it didn't help. I ran a compression test today....the psi per cylinder ranged from 175 all the way down to 50. With all the best parts added my engine only lasted 800 miles because of the pistons

Now I am in the process of getting a new engine (WITH FORGED PISTONS and all the other good stuff) built at Arrow Racing. I intended to build this motor this winter but it will need to be moved up. Another FYI...Getting a new engine is actually the easy part. Getting it installed and set up correctly is the most dificult.

The later gen 2's pistons are weak, the cam is mild, the faulty lifters collapse and the water pumps are time bombs with the plastic impeller. That all being said, I would rather cut off my arms than get rid of my GTS.

BTW Sean Roe was a huge amount of help and info while I was trying to figure this out. Everything I have heard about his service and availability is true.

 

[DSG03COBRA]

FYI... I have an 01 GTS with 22,000 miles on the car. I put a Roe blower, Vec 2, water/****,T&D' rockers, 70mm throttle bodies,H/O fuel system, gears, new clutch, unitax half shafts and loops bellanger headers....and all the rest of the bolt on mods. 590 rwhp on a conservative tune because of my cast pistons. After about 800 miles with the new mods,(two weeks ago) the engine started feeling weaker and started some oil blow by. It actually blew oil through the oil puke can and all over the engine compartment. I installed a vac pump of an LS-1 camaro and it didn't help. I ran a compression test today....the psi per cylinder ranged from 175 all the way down to 50. With all the best parts added my engine only lasted 800 miles because of the pistons

WOW! That absolutely *****! Sorry to hear all that happened, but if you were planning on building a new engine anyhow, I guess it's not too bad for ya. I think this might completely make up my mind on which GEN II to get... Time to start looking for a 98/99 GTS.

 

[plumcrazy]

good move..........