Project Viper Update

[Jay Herbert]

Many of you know I have a '94 Viper that has garnered MANY names over the years. First it was my project Viper, then my never ending project Viper, then it was "Jay has a Viper?", then is was Franken Viper, and last but certainly not least: The Pewter Predator.... well, whatever it is called, it is under way. For real.

I'll start posting regularly the trials and tribulations. I talk to Ed Combs daily now about this and that, so I figured why not include y'all in the "fun". Maybe someone can learn something about doing a Viper Project, whether it be cosmetic upgrades or a Tuner special.

As a brief starter, the car was purchased after it was "lightly rolled". It slid off the road and through a field until it finally dug in enough to roll over onto it's top. the car was "turned off by the freaked out driver" immediately, so the engine was fine. The only frame damage was to one rear rail, aft of the rear suspension. The car has a clean title as it was a dealer that did the dirty deed, and for some reason it ended up with a clear title, one of those don't ask things I guess.

I plan to treat this thread more like a Blog than a thread, so it'll be locked for replies, and I'll just keep adding to it in diary form until the car is complete.

 

[Jay Herbert]

Let the fun begin. Header Gasket Replacement

12/1/04

OK, the Viper has 50,000 miles on it, 17,000 after an Aero warranty rebuild. But, it has old head gaskets on it, and the plan is to remove and paint the intake and valve covers, so why not replace the head gaskets as long as the intake will be coming off.

Simple, right? First thing is to buy all the gaskets and head bolts needed. A call to Woodhouse and they are on the way. Many say that you can re-use head bolts. Well not me. So that is why they were bought too. A note here, the upper engine set for a Viper costs about what you can buy a .010 over complete rebuild kit from Summit Racing for a 318..... we get gaskets, they get gaskets, pistons, bearings.... every internal part, even an oil pump. Sometimes life's not fair.

Anyway. I have all the gaskets and bolts and Ed starts tearing into things. It was a good idea to do the head gaskets, as one was about to go between two cylinders.

Ed sent the heads to his engine builder to have them gone over, this seems like the thing to do, and for a couple of hundred bucks, why not. Well, let the fun begin. One head is perfect. All the valves look good, guides are showing no wear, chambers look good, valve springs check out OK. It is ready for a mild port and polish. then simply clean it, and put it back together.

The other head is a different story. one valve is bent, has to be pushed out of the head. All the guides show significant wear. This head is going to need parts and work The engine guy has bought the parts, and that's where I am right now on the heads.

 

[Jay Herbert]

Uh, Oh... Radiator is leaking.

12/5/04

As Ed was taking the heads out, The intake came out, so he had a few hoses to remove and starts poking aound the radiator, son of a gun if it was not weeping in the area of the drain. After draining, he pokes his finger through. Bummer.

I call Paul Scharf, the Viper salvage king, and he has a radiator, I ask how much, hold my breath, and tell him... ship it. the radiator arrived 12/7.

Well, might as well replace the hoses too. So I ordered a set of Roe Racings Silicone hoses, black. They cost about $270 +/-, this sounds high until you find out stock Viper hoses are only available through Mopar and are still $170ish for the set of five. The silicone hoses will last forever, so in my mind, they are worth the extra $100. Plus, you can get them in red if you like, and they have a bleeder in the upper radiator hose.... no more cooling burping necessary!

I'd bet there are a lot of "low milage" 10 year old Vipers running around on original hoses. Not a good plan.

 

[Jay Herbert]

Powder coat the intake and valve covers?

12/10/04

I dropped Ed a note yesterday asking what the powder coater quoted to do the intake and valve covers, as I knew they would be the long lead on putting the engine back together and firing it up. I got this note back:

"Jay, I simply forgot to call Bill. Today's calendar of events! What color? Better yet, to save multiple go-arounds' call ***-***-XXXX and ask for Bill. Be sure and tell him I sent you. That way you guys can talk directly. Damn, I'm glad you said something as I was planning on putting the intake back on Monday or sooner!"

Ed apparently got so excited about putting the engine back together that he forgot we planned to either paint or powder coat the intake. This is a lesson on follow up...

It's to late to catch the powder coater now, so it will be on the agenda first thing Monday AM.

Some good news is Ed now has the digital camera working, and actually uploaded a few pics to his computer tonight. Hopefully soon I'll start posting pictures
too.

On a related matter:

Ed's shop is in Michigan, he put in a fancy heating system using a boiler and tubing embedded in the concrete. He had it installed EXACTLY as the company had designed it. Sadly, they screwed up big time, it seems that the limit of tubing length per recirculating circuit is 450 feet, they designed the system with two 1000 ft. circuits. The tubing/hot water looses all its heat about halfway though its circuit, so the shop heat is not maintainable.... so far all the suggestions to fix the problem involve pouring new concrete on top of the gorgeous flooring he put on over the current pad.

Well, after pondering, an idea came up, why not put a valve setup in place that runs the water one direction though that tubing for a period of time, and then swaps the direction of flow, then repeats itself.... with a little luck, this will work and Ed will quit fight his floor and have a more comfortable place to work on my car I've got my fingers crossed.

 

[Jay Herbert]

Intake and Valve Cover Powder Coating

Well, I got hold of the powder coater today. One of the things I love about working on cars (or having cars worked on) is talking to people who are car nuts like I am. Turns out Bill, the owner of the powder coating company is as certifiable as I am. We chatted for quit a while. It turns out that his company Aesthetic Finishers, www.afipowder.com , not only does powder coating, but ceramic coating. They do work for everyone from Nascar teams to Hot Rods. They are experienced doing Viper parts and just did a Viper powered Studebaker Hot Rod. Since we powder coat some of our compressors at my day job.... we talked about industrial powder coating for a while. Turns out he does that also, their facility is 80,000 square feet, and he has industrial clients like Whirlpool.

Our conversation meandered for a long time, turns out hie is starting up a business that will be making turn-key kit '34 Ford trucks, with a twist, the buyer will participate in the last two weeks of the build for their vehicle. I also found out they do media blasting an even have a bake off oven capable of doing an entire vehicle. It was a great time, he'll be sending me a powder coat sample of the color I am considering. I'll be going with a two coat process, color coat and clear coat. By doing this, the masked off areas like the ribs, will not corrode. His prices seemed very fair, single stage, standard color, $50/pair for valve covers and $150 for the intake; two stage $100/pr fr the valve cover and $225 for the intake. Custom color would have been an additional $100 charge for the custom mixed powder. When I got off the phone, I gave Ed a quick call and told him to send Bill my Intake and Valve covers. It is very likely he'll also get the Viper's headers and fabricated side pipes for ceramic coating once complete.

 

[Jay Herbert]

Re: Project Viper: Lost in the (UPS) Mail

"Lost in the Mail"


When Ed found the radiator on my '94 project Viper was bad, it was an opportunity for me to have him make an upgrade that I had originally planned to do after the car arrived home, install a late model radiator fan.


On December 3rd, I packaged up the radiator fan along with a set of Mopar Plug Wires, an Oil filter, and a bottle of "fish oil/really stinky stuff" friction modifier (for the differential that Ed installed a 3:45 gear set from Unitrax.... which I'll cover a little later) and sent them Via UPS. Last Friday Ed let me know that he still had not received the package, and suggested that I contact UPS to see what was up.


12/14/04


After digging up the tracking number, I logged onto the UPS sight to use their package tracking feature. It went from Arkadelphia to Little Rock, AR to Earth City, MO to Hodgkins, IL to Wyoming , MI, and finally to Ludington, MI before being delivered to Ed's "Front" Door" on December 8th at 3:04 PM. Not.


A package I had shipped to him the day before was left at a neighbor's house, sadly, not this time, so I call up the UPS 800 number and waited patiently through nine automated options before the one I needed was offered up. I talked to a helpful fellow who passed me onto a helpful young lady. She added a little info; the package was left on a deck...by the front door (just not the right deck or front door). She verified the shipping address, asked for my contact info including a phone number and fax, Ed's phone number and info, and even celled Ed while I was on the phone with her. Ed verified he had not received the package. So I went on to fill her in on the packages contents and she filed a missing package inquiry and said I would hear back in one to eight days.


12/15/04


Good news, I got a FAX stating 'Receipt of the above shipment has been acknowledged by ed combs whose telephone number is xxxxxxxx'. It's back on the phone with a quick call to Ed. Nope, he had not got the package. He was not even in the state, sadly, he was in a hospital in Ohio with his daughter who was about to go in for emergency surgery, the missing package was the farthest thing from his mind, and I ask that all pray for his daughter.


A little flustered, I made another call back to UPS, they could not explain why they had closed the trace, and reopened it taking all the same information again. They wanted to call Ed again to verify he had really not got the package (again). I told them now was not the time and they would have to wait at least a day, he was in the hospital with his daughter. Now she was the flustered one.


I hate to say it, but based on a recent UPS thread posted in the forums, I should have known better. Hopefully they'll find my box in a truck with someone's Christmas gifts, but if I were a betting man, it's in a snowdrift on someone's deck in the Michigan dunes.

 

[Jay Herbert]

A Slight Delay in the Project

12/19/04

One of the things that sometimes occurs on a project is something called a "delay". I've already posted on one of the more typical delays, a part did not make it to the shop working the car (in my case, UPS lost the part in the mail). Other typical delays are supplier related, even others have to do with things completely out of anyones control. That has happened over the years on my particular project, and quite frankly, in the end, each had its purpose which was not apparent to me at the time... and they always worked out for the best. Sometimes the delays allowed me to gather up a little more money to buy an upgrade I would not have been able to purchase ( like a 3:45 rear gear set and speedometer calibration box), sometimes the delay allowed another improvement to come along I could get installed as Team Viper made improvements to the Viper (Like a set of '03 seats).

Well, the project is temporarily on hold again, Ed has had a family emergency, and is in the hospital looking after his daughter after her emergency brain surgery. Ed's priorities are where they belong, that's one of the things I really like about him. Too many people only care about money, or prestige, their ego's, or rolling over all in their path to get what they want. Ed is as far from that as a Geo Metro is from a Viper. I attended one of Ed's "Spring Fling" Cobra event's a few years ago, unlike the featured speakers at most, OK all, car events, the person up on stage at Ed's event was a cancer survivor telling his story. In keeping with the Cobra theme, he also happened to be one that built a kit Cobra. But not for the normal reason's that most do. Building his Cobra was what he wanted to do to spend time with his kids, family and friends before he died. His speech was amazing, he tells how he, his friends and family finished the car and how it allowed him to spend more, rather than less, time with them while he was going through therapy. Also how building the car helped him learn things about life he had never thought of.

One story he told was when he was driving the Cobra home after paint. When they got home, the passenger unbuckled his harness and flipped it over his shoulders...... BAM, BAM...... two big chips in the freshly painted car. The speaker called that "shooting for the gap", remembering what was important, and what was not in a the small instant of time between an event and a response. He could have got upset, but just said, "It's only paint".... He was an amazing speaker that left an impression on everyone at the event.

When I spoke with Ed this afternoon, he told me the tumor removed from his daughter was the size of an orange. His daughter is doing well, and she should be moved to "one notch below critical" tonight. Modern medicine is pretty amazing. In a strange quirk, my father had surgery for a brain tumor while I was in college, so I know from personal experience how tough all this is on Ed and his wife, the pain that a patient goes through after the procedure is excruciating as minimal medication is used because the Doctors need to know what is going on.....Ed has been though hell this week, and seems to be holding up pretty well. It sounds like things are going pretty good, and if she does as good as my Dad did, she'll be home soon. Please say a Prayer for Ed's daughter.

While Ed is taking care of what he should be, I'm working with the powder coater to find the "right color" powder and I'm also following up with the fellow who is working on my heads to close the loose ends on that sub-project.

 

[Jay Herbert]

UPS, still looking..... Misc. parts are arriving though.....

12/22/04

Ed has returned home for a bit, his daughter’s surgery went well, but they still do not know what the tumor makeup is, they sent samples to the mayo Clinic for evaluation. He’ll be concentrating on family, as he should be.

Lost UPS Shipment:

I have to give UPS credit…… they are burning up the phone lines trying to find my lost plug wires and radiator fan…. They have called me five times in the last two days, and Ed once. They got a little confused as they delivered a radiator from Don Scharf Automotive, and thought that might be what I was looking for. I think they are all straightened out in terms of what they are looking for. Hopefully, with the several feet of snow dumped on Pentwater, MI in the last week, my package is not buried until spring thaw.

Silicone Radiator Hoses:

The black silicone radiator hoses arrived OK from Roe Racing, so we have the radiator and the hoses…. Just that that one minor radiator fan missing now!

Powder Coating:

As promised, the powder paint sample plaques arrived from Aesthetic Finishers, one was way to sparkly, the other to light a gray. It may be better to get a paint chip of the color I am looking for and send to him, or just wait until I visit his shop in mid-January. I’m not sure when Ed will be able to forward him the intake and valve covers anyway, so no real hurry on the color selection.

Misc:

Ed was going to give the fellow working on the heads a call to see if they were complete. I’d guess they are done, but I have not ordered the lifters, so even if they are not done, between the lack of lifters and the intake not yet being powder painted…. No hurry here either. This is one of those periods where many different things are being done at once, and until they all are done…. nothing is done.

 

[Jay Herbert]

What\'s lost is found.... and what\'s arrived is lost?

Sometimes things sort of work out.... I got all the paperwork for the lost UPS package. It's "Officially Lost" so they faxed me the paperwork to claim my $100. Of course I'm all depressed because there was about $500 of stuff in the box. Lesson learned: pay for the insurance.

So I start to re-buy the missing items and ordered a set of Mopar Performance plug wires and a bottle of friction modifier from Woodhouse Viper and begin looking for a replacement radiator fan. Christmas intervened, so I took a break. Today when I stopped in the office to see how our plants shutdown projects are progressing. I noticed an email from Ed:

"...I'm home alone, Diane has gone back to Ohio. I decided that I should start to organize some more "stuff" in the shop. I took your radiator box and started to put it with your other "stuff". It was then that I noticed the return or shipping address was "Arkadelphia!" I immediately remembered that you said the salvage yard was shipping the radiator. Horror of horrors. I then immediately opened the box and it is full of the parts *I thought was missing! The fan, fluids, etc..."

My first call was to Nancy Shanno at Woodhouse to cancel the items I had ordered, she said; "No problem.", canceled the order, and congratulated me on finding the lost package.

So.... it turns out the radiator from Don Scharf Automotive MAY be the missing item (lost?), not the items I sent (found). Before calling UPS this time, I'll make sure the radiator is what's actually missing. Since UPS already found a "lost" 2002 Viper radiator when the were looking for my radiator fan it should go smoother this time if the radiator is what is actually lost.

 

[Jay Herbert]

Visiting the Project 1/14/05

Visiting the Project: 1/14/05

I was able to make a side trip while on a business trip to visit my project Viper. It would have been nice if the weather had cooperated, no such luck. The Indian summer ended as I rolled up to Ed's new shop in Pentwater, Michigan.... and the rain changed to sleet. Since I had to drive all the way across Michigan to Detroit, I made it a short couple of hour visit, thus letting the weather chase me across the state, rather than lead me.

It was great to see my Viper again, still dusty and not together, but still my Viper. Ed and I spent spent time looking at his shop and discussing things he still has to complete to finish it. I have to admit, he has a ways to go. He only has the insulation in the roof, not the walls, this makes for a pretty uncomfortable place. With the "hot-water in the floor" heat not yet de-bugged, he is heating with kerosene "jet" units. These things are barely able to keep up with heat pouring out those un insulated steel walls, another issue is this type of heater puts out a lot of moisture, so the walls sweat like Rocky Balboa! As uncomfortable as the shop is, Ed is plowing along on the Viper.

My intake was ready for me to haul to the Aesthetic Finishers to get powder coated, and the valve covers I had sent to Ed all stripped and ready to PC, were still in the box I had sent them to him over five years ago! I was tickled with the work Ed had done on the Intake, he pulled nearly two pounds of aluminum out of the intake runners while port matching it to the gaskets, the runners look fantastic! The way the casting was done, it had some humps in the runners that were actually impeding good flow and causing the fuel charge to back up into the intake and carbon up the runners. With this material removed, we're betting an easy 5 lb-ft more of torque. Here is a few pictures of the Intake, and a few pictures of my Vipers engine bay with heads and intake missing.

We also spent some time looking at the Vipers hood and locating the louvers. We roughed out a few ideas on how he is going to approach the exposed side-pipes, looked at the work Ed did on the windshield surround, 3:45 rear-gear installation, speedo-recalibrator, and the gutting of the interior. I spent a bit of time taking pictures of the power mirrors to send to SnakeOyl Products. Sometime in the last few years we lost the installation instructions, and SnakeOyl would not send me a new set without either the receipt, or pictures. Well the receipt is packed away, so hence the pictures.

As it changed from sleet to snow, Ed and I packed up a bunch of parts (four cobra headers, a pair of Cobra side pipes, and my intake and valve covers) to drop off at Aesthetic Finishers and then I hit the road.

Once the engine is back together and running (estimate 2/8/05 +/- depending on radiator delivery) Ed will start on the body work.

 

[Jay Herbert]

A few hours at the powder coater

January 17th 2005:


A few hours at the powder coater:


I briefly visited Aesthetic Finishers in Piqua, OH on the way to the walk-in clinic (I caught the Flu and was in misery). Piqua is a pretty neat little town, one of those old industrial Ohio towns, lots of neat old houses and a downtown from yesteryear. Aesthetic Finishers facility is very clean and they have it separated into two distinct facilities. One is a higher volume overhead conveyorized system with a six stage wash, paint booth and dry off ovens. The second part of the facility is the custom job powder coating area utilized for custom powder coating of items ranging from automotive exhaust systems to room sized air traffic controller housings. this is not a mo-and pop powder cater, it is a top notch coating doing production rate industrial jobs. While I was in the facility they were ceramic coating B-52 bomber components and powder coating air traffic control housings for Ratheon. Corporate customers include companies like Whirlpool, Boeing, and nearly all the major race car and wheel manufacturers. Items ready to ship ranged from headers and wheels to dirt track race car and cycle frames. The custom facility has a blast booth and oven large enough that you can drive a car into them. As a side note, they are starting up a production facility for turn-key steel bodied 32 Ford Hot-Rods, not something you see every day.


I was glad I spent the time to visit, as I saw several parts coated in a color called "Black Chrome", the title is a little deceiving as the color is more pewter than black. After seeing it on an intake, I knew it would be perfect for my Viper's intake and valve covers. Aesthetic Finishers said my parts would be ready in about two weeks, so hopefully I'll have a radiator and new lifters (which Doug Levin had in stock) by Jan 31st, so when the powder coated parts arrive, Ed will be ready to put the engine back together.

 

[Jay Herbert]

The Heads are done.... and installed.

3/6/05

It's been a while since an update. Most of you know a fellow named Ed Combs is working on my Viper..... only Ed.... one of the down sides of using a custom builder, where one person works on your car, is when something happens, work stops. Things were moving along nicely, when Ed had to take care of some personal business, his daughter had a second surgery, and his father-in-law passed away. This, combined with continuing heating issues with his shop pretty much stopped work for six weeks. Like they say, "Patience is a virtue".

Well, things are moving along again, following are some photos of the head work. The heads are totally done, attached and torqued, ready for intake.

Ahhhh, the intake.... well, the powder coater is a perfectionist. The intake is out gassing during the post powder heat curing process, leading to bubble like pits. They area patient bunch too, the intake was set for it's third try last Thursday, I'll know on Monday if it worked.

Next up: radiator, radiator fan, power steering cooler, drop the oil pan, install new oil filter, Spark Plugs, engine oil, Antifreeze.

Note from Ed, block was cleaned and bores honed;no rust what so ever, push rods de-varnished and re-installed, new lifters installed. Engine Re-wiring started. Old valve covers installed to keep things clean.

Head with gasket in place:

Single port with gasket in place:

Port marked for grinding:

Head ready to start porting:

Head all done and ready to install:

Cylinder - Pre- Cleaning:

Cylinders cleaned and ready for head installation:

Head installed:

 

[Jay Herbert]

Minor Setback

3/10/05

Minor setback yesterday. Ed was looking at the pictures I posted and noticed I had posted one showing the cylinders cleaned before the heads went on, the picture was showing the cylinder only partially cleaned.... and he sent me the picture below to show me what the cylinders really looked like, just before the heads went on. When I opened the picture and saw it, I got a really sick feeling in my stomach. Can you see what is wrong with this picture?

Its the head gasket. It is the old composite style. The ones that fail. The type that failed on my engine!

I was sick. I emailed Ed to tell ask him if that was the gasket that he used, and if it was to stop. I also emailed the pic to Doug Levin and Woodhouse Dodge to verify I was not going crazy. Sadly, I was right, and he had used it. For whatever reason, even though Mopar had been selling the new tri-metal gaskets for YEARS to replace the failing head gaskets, the kit from Dodge had the old style gasket in it. I was not a happy camper as I had asked when I bought the gasket set if the kit had the tri-metal gasket in it. I was told "yes", but since the kit was sent directly to Ed, I never set my own two eyes on it. Lesson learned!

Today, I spent a little time on the phone with Rick at Woodhouse, and Ed spent a little time on the phone with Doug. Luckily the folks at Woodhouse had the right gaskets, and they are on the way. Ed has to feel sick as he was looking forward to having the Viper running again this weekend, and now he gets to take off an reinstall the heads. Looks like the Viper will not get running until sometime next week On the bright side, at least only the heads had been reinstalled!

 

[Jay Herbert]

Two Steps Forward, one step back: Intake and Valve Covers

3/12/05

Regarding the powder coated intake and Valve covers, here is the note from Ed, and a few pictures:

From Ed:

Couple small issues; "They", forgot to send the baffle plates and screws with the valve covers. Yes, I can remove the old baffles and install them, but the valve covers are useless without them.

Valve covers are totally covered, "Viper" and "Sneaky Pete" are not masked off nor polished.

In shipment one vacuum port got damaged on the right rear of the intake. (See photo's). A new one is in order unless you can get someone to pry out a port from another intake. (All three ports on the intake are the same piece.) Tell whomever if it is, that they will come out easily by using a small pair of "side-cuts" placing them between the intake and the port, then squeeze gently, forcing the port to come partially out, then just a slight prying/twisting motion will release it.

Nothing else showed up by Friday night.
Slow weekend.
Ed

A side note, based on the pictures the items were masked, but as part of the two coat process, the second coat is a clear. So I think Ed may be wrong, the ribs and emblems were masked, but they were coated over with the clear. This is is what I asked Aesthetic Finishers to do to prevent corrosion.

Ed is sort of stuck for a day or two . He can not go any further forward until he gets the above mentioned vacuum intake port, the head gaskets, and a connector to wire in the new style radiator fan. I'll need to chase down the port on Monday, and the latter two items should be at his shop by Monday, both were shipped last Thursday. I'll call up AF to get the Valve Cover Baffles and screws on the way

 

[Jay Herbert]

Engine is (99%) back together!

Well, it's finally all back together, OK, 99% back together. Woodhouse Viper was able to send me a set of the correct tri-steel head gaskets (I hope Ed took a picture of them, so y'all can see what the correct gaskets look like) and a new pan gasket. We are still missing the plug wires, plug wire holders, and a few misc. cable holding pieces that were brittle and broke during disassembly. Mobil 1 10W30 and antifreeze will be back in the snakes veins soon. Ed spent some extra time cleaning up and painting the coolant return pipe that runs along the drivers side of the engine. He has installed the 2002 radiator and fan. Paul Scharf was nice enough to send a harness connector for the fan, and Ed soldered it into the harness, so the change is invisible. The gas in the Vipers tank is REALLY old, so it will need to be drained, not a fun job, glad I'm not doing it . One nice thing about working with a custom builder like Ed is he takes care of the little details like that.

Next up is the power steering cooler and K&N carbon fiber intake from DC Performance. It won't be long until the custom exhaust and body work start!

Many have said they would like to ask some questions or comment on this Project Viper thread, so a thread has been created for that purpose at:

Project Viper Comment thread.

 

[Jay Herbert]

Air Box and misc......

3/22/05

Ed likes to have a little fun, today was a red letter day for him... first note:

Have a great day!
Ed

Included the following pictures:

A picture of the correct head gaskets!

I emailed him back to ask if the spices were soldered..... (the follow up thing ) and if he could save the head gaskets so Woodhouse can get with Dodge on the fact that they were in a kit long after the gasket was on the Tri-metal gasket was on the market...

And I got back a fun reply:

Cm'on..
Of course they were soldered. Yes, then they were wrapped in 'heat shrink tubing'and only then were they wrapped. All three wires were also "staggered' so as not to make a big lump in the harness.

NOW you tell me to save the head gaskets! No problem, I already did and installed them in the orignal packaging.
Nit-picky

Then he emailed me this:

Just read your latest thread. Carbon Air box???
Ed

followed by another email with these pictures:

and this explanation:

In my line of business it is rare that an after market part fits as directed without at least some kine of modifications, but this air box went in perfectly. They did a nice job and the directions were "exact". Very nice.
Ed

"It was a good day for the Project Viper"

Jay


Many have said they would like to ask some questions or comment on this Project Viper thread, so a thread has been created for that purpose at:

Project Viper Comment thread.

 

[Jay Herbert]

4/18/05

It has been a while since my last update, but that is not because things are progressing.

In the post above you see the carbon fiber airbox is in. This raised a few questions that needed to be answered pertaining to getting air INTO this airbox. I chatted with Dan Cragin and he had put several of these on RT's without NACA ducts, but after further discussions, Ed talked me into going ahead an putting a NACA duct into the hood. I had bought one a long while back from Autoform for this purpose, but was hoping not to use it as I do not want the hood to look like a gawdy hood from an early 70's muscle car. We decided since the two oval louvers will be inside the stripes and painted the same color as the stripes, and the "hood speaker grills" will be painted body color, it would still not be over the top. Time will tell. This picture shows approximately the location of the oval louver's, the NACA duct will be in the same place as a Gen II Viper.

Here is the fun stuff: the side pipes. One of the unique things being done is to make a set of exposed side pipes, like the '89 show car. Here is a slightly modified picture of the show cars pipes, and what we are going after:

To do this I had to figure out the muffler diameter and length to make the pipes look "right". The show car just had a big 4" (+/-) straight pipe.... not realistic for the street After pondering a good way to do this, I came up with something that worked out pretty good. PVC sewer pipe. Really. I got a section of 4" and a section of 3" PVC sewer pipe, two 4" to 3" reducers and a 45 degree piece (to simulate the exhaust tip). After some cutting, I had a side pipe mock-up that seems to be balanced pretty well, not so big as to be "to much bling" and about the right size relative to the current side sill. It will take about 12 inches of 3" pipe into the front of the muffler, a 30" long 4" OD muffler and about a 6" tip.

I found a suppler for all the components in Mn ( Heartthrob Exhaust Inc.com ), here is when the muffler looks like except the pipe diameter will be larger so the pipe to muffler to exhaust tip transitions will not be so pronounced:

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I know it sounds bazaar, but if it was good enough for the show car designers, it's good enough for me.

With all the specifics of the exterior now settled, it is time to get going on the body work. To do that, Ed is building a body prep and paint room inside his shop. That's the primary thing that has been going on aver the last few weeks. I'd guess he'll have it done in a few weeks, and the bodywork on the car will start. In the mean time, I'll be ordering the exhaust components and the headers are getting ceramic coated at Aesthetic Finishers.

Comment Thread

 

[Jay Herbert]

Work has started again.........

Well, some may have noticed no updates on the project for a while, well, Ed had a setback...... he had a stroke. He took it all in good spirit, and his friends helped him out a bunch by gathering together and finishing his paint booth for him while he was recovering, but it was still really tough on him. He had a lot of trouble with his right side, he said he couldn't scratch his nose with his right hand for fear of poking out his eye!

I got this note from him today:

The mirror directions came today. I sure do NOT remember seeing those before!

Your dash has the red capsule in it for the alarm. Does this car have an alarm? If not do you want me to fill it in? I'm back to work, the booth is all done and works great. Your dash, (windshield surround)is marked "test 4") I surely hope it wasn't a reject as it will be permanantly mounted and painted by Saturday. It has a flat black color, I'm going to assume that's what you still want, if not let me know before Friday.

I'm on my feet all day now without a mechanical aid, still dizzy as can be, but at least I'm not falling down. Painted a motorcycle this last week. A test for the new room, but also a true test for me. I was kind of nervous about painting again, but it looks great. That's it for this time, let the work begin...again.

Ed

Comment Thread

 

[Jay Herbert]

Ed is back to work

Having recovered from his stroke, Ed has begun to dive into the Pewter Preditor again. The bodywork has started! After this picture was taken, the NACA was duct installed. We are still pondering the location(or use at all) of the oval louvers.

He has also completed the installation of the headers (he said he will NEVER do that again) and the the paint work on windshield surround. Parts are on order from Woodhouse Dodge and Paul Scharf to complete the installation of the glass and surround.

Woodhouse is looking for a '95 or so Diesel dually for me too, hope they find one before I ned to go pick up the Viper I just missed a nice red 5 spd regualr cab '95 dually yesterday.

 

[Jay Herbert]

NACA duct is installed.

Ed is in his element, the original reason I started to work with him was his skill doing custom bodywork. Today he finished the flush installation of the Autoform NACA duct:

Talked to Paul Scharf yesterday, and the rubber weatherstripping to work with the roll-up window doors Ed is installing should be on the way.

Still pondering the louvers, at this point I'm leaning toward just the NACA duct. You can see the location being considered for the louvers. The issue is there are very few places on the hood they can be installed W/O cutting into the reinforcement below

 

[Jay Herbert]

Cutting hood to install louvers

The fun has really started, marked hood, time to drill:

Time to cut:

By the way, if you look at the the picture above, you can see the roll-up window doors and the windshield surround are now installed. We put the hardtop on were very pleased that it fit nicely. This is a '94, being upgraded to Gen II doors, it is taking a LOT of parts: doors, electrical harnesses, hard top, soft top, windshield surround, windshield rubber trim, door rubber trim, sport bar pad, seat belts, window switches... the list seems endless. Ed will not be doing the wiring to make it all work, I get that task when the car comes home after paint..... The reason I went for the roll-up windows was the fact I needed to get a windshield surround and one door anyway. So I sold the good door, and bought the roll up window doors and the correct windshield surround to go with them.

Louvers in (note stripes are marked and louvers will be inside stripes and same color as stripes (black)):

The plan is to also cut the hole out below the drivers side "speaker grill" for additional release of underhood heat.

Here is a picture with the hardtop on the car, the rear decklid is in the foreground:

The glass is the same as a side curtain car, but the windshield surround has a different profile to allow for the mounting bracket that holds the weatherstrip which mates with the roll up window glass. It appears the mounting pins on the top are a different design too, but I'd have to get a gen I and Gen II top side by side to see the exact differences.

The sportpad is different (bigger holes) as the hardtop changed so the sportpad (and rear top mounting studs) did not need to be removed to install the top like it did on Gen I hardtops. The Gen II sportpad bolts right up on the Gen I sportcap.

Rear fender getting prepped for racing style fuel filler lid:

Now for the funny one. We needed a way to mock-up the side pipes, so what better than 3" and 4" PVC pipe, it worked great. It was easy to cut to length, and we tweeked it until we were happy. The real thing is now on order from Heart Throb Exhaust

They are quite a shop and can make about anything in any size. For the 4" OD, 3" pass-thru, 33 1/2" long side pipe (custom length), a 2 1/2" to 3 " stepped infeed pipe, and a 3" turnout all welded together, it was $175 for each side. Very reasonable considering the custom length. The entire setup is 53 1/2" long. It would have been half that if I would have been happy with a 30" muffler. Of course it is aluminized steel, not stainless steel, but I'll be ceramic coating them.

I asked how long the pipes would last, he said a long-long time, on average folks seem to get 20 years out of them. Good enough for me. They also can make a set out of stainless, but I figured I'd start out with these. I did try to get these from folks like Borla and Monroe, but none of them would do anything longer than their stock lengths.

Somebody asked me, "What happened to the car in the first place?" Well, the fellow I bought it from said he slid off the road into some grass..... slid for a good bit, thought he was going to be in good shape, and then at the last second, the wheels dug in and it went over. The only frame damage found was the drivers side rear rail, behind the suspension mounting points and the cowl the windshield mounts to. I knew about the rear rail when I bought the car, it was fixed many-many moons ago, all the rest of the frame checked out perfect.

When Ed recently went to put on the windshield frame, the bolt holes did not line up.... he looked a little closer and found the cowl had been tweaked in the accident. Ed got out his come-along, tied one end to a steel column of his building, the other to the passenger side of the cowl and pulled like mad (wish he had taken pictures of this Rube Goldberg frame puller). He called me tickled to all get out with the results after everything settled in for a day. "Perfect". It even pulled out the small wrinkle he had found on the drivers side area of the cowl in front of the door. The windshield frame lined up perfect, and when we checked the frame to the sportbar top mounting points, all was square. For good measure, the hardtop dropped right on.

With mounting experience on repairing a damaged Viper I can say with some knowledge, when smacked.... LOTS of stuff cracks that you would not notice until the car is all the way apart. When I first saw the car, all I could see was the damage to the hood, drivers side door, sill cover, the sportcap, and the rear trunk tub. We have found additional fiberglass damage to the inner wheel hubs, the fan inlet box, the deck lid, one hinge cover.

 

[Jay Herbert]

Fuel Filler Lid and Exposed Sidepipes Update

A bunch of crazy things happened over the summer preventing the completion of my Viper, but things are back on track, and Ed has the custom side pipes installed, the hood, doors, deck lid, inner trunk, and rear fenders nearing completion. Every body panal needed work, even the inner fenders. To make a long story short, Ed had to do a LOT more work than either of us had anticipated, in other words, I was sold a bill of goods when I bought the car many moons ago.

I had really hoped to be able to put a Gen III Coupe cap in, but was not able to get one in time.

The curvature of this one (off a Bullit Mustang of all things) was extremely close to that of the stock Viper fender. You can see it will take very little bodywork to feather it in with the original fender lines.

With all that said here are a few pics of the fender being modified for the fuel filler lid:

Here's a pic of the fuel filler lid in place and the fender fitted and ready for primer:

Here is the progression of the exposed side pipes on my project Viper. They will be similar to the '89 show car side pipes with the only difference I'll be using a more traditional looking side pipe a 3" inlet to a 4" exhaust to a 3" turnout rather than the 4" inlet, 4 " muffler and 4" turnout that was used on the show car.



Modified Show car:

I did modify the above image at the leading edge of the side pipe opening to reflect what Ed will be doing, making the opening follow the curve of the hood.



Here is the mock-up of the side pipes W/O the side sill cover.

Here is the driver's side pipe on the car without the side sill cover:

The plan is to ceramic coat the pipes the same black as the headers. This should make them really "pop" against the pewter metallic the car is getting painted. Chrome ceramic with black sills and black front and rear lower bummpers is under discussion.