SRT Sales

[Nsane1]

I knew this would start, the months before the H2 came out there were TONS of these. This is the first I have seen on ebay.

I have some friends selling theirs, and if the person who listed this can tell us how this goes, they would be very interested.

I am NOT selling mine, and I am making no statement one way or the other on the "goodness" of selling your cert (in effect). I am just curious.

Interestingly tho, this guy doesnt have a vin, nor a ship date (in the past) like myself, so I should be able to get a bundle for mine if its at 6k with 9 days left (just kidding, I'm NOT selling, my lift comes this weekend).

Its also private.. Wierd.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1871437345

 

[Matt]

I hope DC revokes this guy's certificate and gives it to someone who truely wants the 2003. It's actions like these that justify the dealers' ******** about offering the car direct to "loyal" Viper owners.

-Matt

 

[SERPENT INDIANA]

Who is to say the guy that buys the Viper isn't just as much an enthusiast as anyone else, certificate or not....all kinds of scenarios evolved during the "certificate period"...I know of one "loyal Viper enthusiast" that has owned several new Vipers, just happened to be between NEW Vipers with a used one...he didn't qualify for a certificate....if he buys a 2003 off the open market is he a less loyal owner than anyone else, does he not TRULY want the car just because he was not lucky enough to get a certificate ???...a certificate could have been obtained by a person that had owned a new Viper less than 60 days or so....is he a more loyal owner than the guy that has owned/raced lived and breathed Vipers for 10 years, but just happened NOT to own a new one....seems to me a buyer that is willing to pay a premium over MSRP may be a more dedicated owner than some of us that are buying these for under MSRP.....to me, a Viper owner is a Viper owner.....I didn't buy my first one till 1997(94RT/10), am I less loyal than the guy who happened to have the $$$ in 1992 for a new one ???....I have to date owned 6 Vipers(4 new, 2 GTS and 2 ACR), does this make me more loyal than the guy that has just owned his a few months or only owned 1 Viper.....we are the VIPER NATION.....who ever buys this 2003 should be welcomed with open arms as a new Viper owner, I doubt he would buy it if he didn't TRULY want it(especially at a premium price)....remember, there were not enough certificates for all the "LOYAL" owners anyway.....the guy selling the car, that also is his business, not anyone elses to judge....maybe he changed his mind, maybe his finances didn't work out, maybe a little greed set in, who knows....not my business and I could care less....my first (red)03 is already built(I status) and my second(black) has no scheduled build date yet....lets see now, does this make me more loyal or less loyal....never mind....I am just glad to see the individuals get a CHANCE to profit instead of being bent over by some of the dealers in the DC network....if all dealers were fair like Woodhouse and a few others there would have been no need for the certificate program.....many of the dealers that are ******** had the chance to sell the cars at a fair price and increase their allotments in the past, THEY DIDN'T.....now they are crying because they can't get the chance to **** the eager buyers....there really is no answer to the situation, but I am satisfied with the way it was done....

 

[Y2K5SRT]

It is also interesting to note that the auction has GOT to be screwed up. The guy is selling ONLY the "right to purchase" and not the car itself. Yet the bid is over $50,000 right now. Sorry, but I have a difficult time believing even an avid Viper fan is willing to shell out $130,000+ for a first-year car (and closer to $140,000 with taxes, etc.). I heard of some people selling their certs (or attempting to) for $10,000. There have already been a few on eBay and supposedly the more recent ones were pulled by eBay. I have also heard those same people had their orders pulled by DC. Don't know if this is true or not. What I do know is that my GTS is for sale and my black SRT somewhere in the world of production (either paper or for real). Good enough for me!

Chris

 

[Birvini]

I agree with Serpant in the enthusiasm dept. In '92 when I first saw this car I really wanted one. I mean I REALLY wanted one. I could not afford more than a pristine '94 until last year. Does that make me less of an enthusiast? I can tell you the answer is no.

I also agree with Chris. This auction is screwed up, but remember, it is Ebay. I don't place a whole lot of faith in either sellers or buyer on that site. My personal experience. I would be willing to bet that the folks bidding on the cert think they are bidding on the car, and are idiots bidding on something with no VIN. But, maybe they understand that the car is on ORDER, that's why there is no VIN.

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Chris I know it sounds crazy, but there were 2-3 1992 Viper's that sold for over $200,000. Who's to say that it won't happen again?

 

[robiferretti]

The thing about enthusiasts buying the car I couldn't agree more, but the local doge dealers around NYC here sell the cars over sticker themselves, and ford is another good example adjusting market value by $10,000 on the POS t-bird...and by charging $5000 over sticker for the 03 cobra...I spoke with all of these dealer's saying i wouldn't pay a dime over sticker price, even when i was inquiring about ordering the GT-40 from All American Ford in hackensack NJ...They even though i was ordering 2 years in advance still wanted $3,000 over sticker...

If I am correct new vipers are not supposed to be dealer stock...however there are always dealer stock vipers at dodge in paramus on rt 4 west... and they wont even entertain the thought at selling them under sticker from what I gather from going in there and inquiring to buy...(el diablo) from this forum went in with cash in hand and asked them to match the price he got the car for from TX and they wouldn't and turned him down...the best is the cars sit there for 6 or 8 months at a time before they move them and they still wont negotiate...I went in and purchased a batter and power steering fluid for a 94 viper and they charged me somewhere near $150 for the two...unsuspecting i went to another dealership to get the part that i needed that the other dealership didn't have and was told i was ripped off..for an $85 batter they charged me $120 and for a $4 bottle of power steering fluid they charged me $16...needless to say i went in and had it out with them, especially when they told me they dont take returns and I paid cash...

I wish it was as simple as enthusiasts paying fair prices for cars they like, but if there is a demand much greater then the supply, there are always 5x as many people willing to part with their car for the right price, and when you have people willing to pay that price we just sit back and get mad that everything is being marked up...

 

[Snakester]

I agree that there are many people who want to buy an SRT-10, but didn't buy a recent Viper new.
And with so many vocal current Viper owners disliking the SRT-10 design, several of the people who "could" buy the new Viper wouldn't want to, while many people who would want one can't.

But with that said, I'd guess that the current high $50K bid is someone who doesn't understand about the certificate process, and thinks that they are buying an $80K+ car for $50K.

I've seen that happen all the time on E-Bay when people try to sell a pre-order slot for a new car. Most people don't read the ads well before placing a bid, and subsequent ads have huge bold text saying that the bid price does NOT include the car's purchase price.

Still, we've also seen gouging in the past on the BMW Z8 and Ferrari 360 Spyder to the tune of $50K-$100K over MSRP!!

-Dean.

 

[Nsane1]

Well, I honestly dind't want this to turn into a moral debate about this. But the comments about ebay taking down auctions, and DC taking back certs, (as how it relates to this) drew me into it.

Again, I am not selling my car, I have a VIN, and I am VERY happy with the way DC did this. But, frankly guys, if someone decides to sell their car, it's their businss. Selling a cert, sure, that's against the rules, but after I take ownership it is mine, I can run it off a cliff if I want to. The dealers do it ALL the time, and believe me if it weren't for the coolness of DC we'd be getting reamed this year, it's not wrong, just the way it is, and it makes the guy no less loyal than us.

This guy is merely pre-selling his car, he is gonna take delivery, and sell it. I'll tell you if he is getting 50k for a non-vin car, I'll be listing my VIN car up there too, I can wait a year, and get an almost free 03, and my thoughts are, that at SOME price, everyone would sell.

Honestly, this guy has got to be a VCA mamber, let's be cool and quit judging him, and maybe he'll post some actual facts on what is going on.

 

[vipernate]

What about this one -
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1870382599

scam or the real deal?

 

[Dirk Pitt]

This is almost no premium if you include the luxury tax, state sales tax and gas guzzler. In fact, it may be sold at a loss.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vipernate:
What about this one -
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1870382599
scam or the real deal?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SCAM! New seller with virtually no feedback, no descriptions, pictures, location, etc., etc. And wants an immediate wire transfer of all funds.

As to the other one, I think he has a legit bid of $50,100 over the price of the car. Why? Well if I were the seller I would e-mail the top bidder as soon as I saw a new one appear. I would make SURE they understood that the price does NOT include the car. There is no reason not to e-mail the top bidder and it is definitely in the seller's best interest. Indeed, I would bet that happened last night when it shot up to $65,000 and then dropped back to $50,100 this morning. There are already two bid retractions and one bid cancellation on that auction.

I would also note one thing on NSane1's comments: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>This guy is merely pre-selling his car, he is gonna take delivery, and sell it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> In looking over the auction, he is NOT going to take delivery and wants the bidder to take over the sale as soon as the auction ends and he is paid his "fee". If I were going to do this I would not want to pay all the taxes, license, fees, etc. just to transfer it all over again ten minutes later. If I were the buyer and was paying that kind of premium, I would want to make sure that I was the FIRST person listed on the MSO and the title, not the second. So, this guy is essentially selling his (or her) certificate with a $1000 deposit paid towards the car. I am not faulting them myself, as that is a pretty nice windfall.

Oh, and one last thing: I was told that they did essentially the same thing with the first coupes in 1996 - certificates were offered to the original Viper owners. Did any of them sell like this (before eBay)? I honestly don't know, but certainly am curious.

Chris

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Customers need to know that actions like this are being followed and once identified these people will be pulled from the program.

Here is a tid-bit for all those who are expecting delivery of the SRT/10:

Dodge and the dealers are expecting to see many of these cars re-sold for big money. Each one sold will be a feather in the dealer cap. If a certain number of transactions occur you can rest assured that this type of program (cert/voucher) will not be offered again. All the dealers need is a few cases of the system working against them and they will gain the power back. Now if the future products mean nothing to you then this statement will mean the same.

There is a great future in the PVO program, and many of you will want what is in the future. The only way to assure getting it is to avoid the urge to move these SRT/10 in open and ***** forums and high premiums. And if we really want to score points, let the dealers keep the cars if you are not going to keep it. If that happens then the dealers get even less power.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve Ferguson:
And if we really want to score points, let the dealers keep the cars if you are not going to keep it. If that happens then the dealers get even less power.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't quite understand what this part means. Let's say someone has ordered the SRT. Since the order, they have lost their job, got married, had triplets, lost a limb - whatever. Why would that person not try to sell their "order" rather than let it default to the dealer? And if it was a less than scrupulous dealer (and they are out there in droves), what would be the "benefit" to letting them mark the car up by $30,000 on the showroom floor vs. the orderer preselling it on eBay? I don't quite understand the logic here. I am NOT criticizing or trying to contradict, I am just trying to understand the logic of some of this.

Chris

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Chris, I am saying that it would be in our overall best interest is the dealer made the money verses one of us, that is if we want programs like this to be available in the future. If the dealer makes the money then there will be less crying. Less crying means we can have programs like this when let's say a Coupe becomes available.

I am not saying what is right or wrong. What I am saying is that if the dealers make enough noise, programs like this will not exist in the future.

Keep in mind, the key is VISIBLE sales that show someone other than the dealer making a killing. Selling it discretely would be the way to do this and to not stir up any bad feelings with the dealers.

 

[Mike Brunton]

This is the funniest thing I've heard in a long time Steve...

you're suggeting the kind nice generous SRT buyers DONATE their slot in line to the dealer and give away maybe $20k or $30k of cold hard cash and GIVE that to the dealer, so that the dealers will be all nice and happy in the future and won't ***** about future cert programs?

HAHAHAHHAAH

Wait, that pitch didn't actually work on anyone, did it????

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Hey, they are all big kids and can do what they want. I am saying that the dealers are mounting a case and will be watching this situation. I am sure you all can make your own conclusions, and will. But whatever happens will affect this program in the future.

Look at the person trying to sell on E-Bay? If we can see that so can the dealers. Don't you think they are going to use that against this program?

 

[Nsane1]

Steve has a point that I hadn't thought of. Giving these guys ammo, in other words. Selling it discretely gives no one any evidence or ammo for the future.

The dealers ***** now, but if they can print out an ad, where a sale like this is made, then they have "proof" in other words that they lost cash by a program Dodge created.

What happened in 96? Im SURE people sold their vouchers or their 96s for a good profit, remember, I had a dealer try and sell me a 97 for 125 (and he'd gotten that for others).

Anyway, I'll tell you one of the sales out there is for someone who isn't out to just make a buck, they'd much rather keep the car, but can't afford it, and can't justify giving free money away to the dealer, so good points, thanks for the perspective Steve.

 

[Mike Brunton]

Steve,

Won't it leave just as bad a taste in the mouth of the public if they see dealers snapping up SRT's and selling them for $30k over? My local dealer said he would sell me MY SRT for $20k over sticker, WITH THE CERT. He claimed it was a deal because if I had no cert it would be $125k starting price.

So screw 'em. People will do what they will do. The actions of a very few will not affect the likelihood of this progam in the future. Without something in hand, it's all just speculation and hearsay... what about the poor guy that passes on $20k or more in profit hoping to get a good deal on a GenIII GTS, only to learn that DC axed the program due to slow sales? Will the dealer credit him back that money? Will they "play nice" and sell him another Viper at invoice since he gave them $20k in profit? Hell no!

 

[Steve Ferguson]

I don't know? I told my dealer that if I did not want mine for myself, he can have mine, but I asked him to make make sure he sells it at a fair price. He told me it will go to another VCA member who did not qualify for the program. So who wins? I think everyone.

1- I get to help a member and a dealer that has supported the club.
2- This allowed me to be first on the list for the ONE that I want!
3- It does not give the dealers any reason to hate the system.

I am not saying "DO NOT SELL YOUR CAR". I am saying that use your best discretion to keep any transaction as invisible and out of public view as you can. The only way it can hurt is if it is visible to the dealers and Dodge.

The difference between today and 96 is the advancement of the net. To many people can get to much information now. And if we can see it you can bet others can.

 

[Frank 03SRT]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
But there are certain things I have asked for in the past that may be headed down the production line????
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Steve, if you know about a few potential production changes, what are they? I think the rest of us would like to know.

 

[Geoff Green]

Steve, How does it allow you to be first on the list for the one that you want. You mean if you want a coupe. Geoff

 

[Steve Ferguson]

No, I am not a coupe person.
But there are certain things I have asked for in the past that may be headed down the production line????

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Frank all I know is that there MAY be something coming that would fit ME to a tee. I doubt it would be considered earth shattering news to this group.

 

[Frank 03SRT]

I know what it is --- larger seats?? Only two options for a Viper --- seats in "mature" or "skin and bones". hehe

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Now, you just know I NEED larger seats!

 

[Russ Oasis]

I just gotta throw my .02 into this discussion. I LOVE DC for doing what they have. I appreciate them giving us the cars (at a great price) to the loyal members of the Viper Nation. I would do anything DC asked me to do. With all of that said, here's the flip side. The DEALERS (except Woodhouse)would ****, pillage and plunder any Viper owner with ANY opportunity they get. From sales to service, these guys are the most unbelievable group of animals I have ever met. And there's nothing that the factory can do to control them. As I mentioned in another post, one of the Miami dealers charged me $260 to flush and change my brake fluid (should have been about $100-$120). It turned out that they never really flushed it, but siphoned out the reservoir and replaced the top fluid in the reservoir with fresh fluid so that it LOOKED changed. When I asked them about it, they told me to get lost. So I did...to another dealer. Back when I first bought my 95 RT, I had a different dealer install 5 point harnesses. Upon getting the car home I discovered that they attached them to the seat mounting bolts, so that in an accident the whole seat pulls out with the belts. Before the certificate program was announced, I tried to place an order for the 2003 with a dealer. He wouldn't accept the order unless I left the price (profit) open for him to determine after the car hit his floor. Obviously, when I got the certificate I did not go back to him. I have ZERO sympathy for the dealers. Our loyalties should be to DC. We should do as THEY ask.
By the way, back in 1996 at the Indy VOI I had a chance to speak with Lutz for a moment. I told him that I thought that the weakest link in Chrysler ownership experience (or any domestic nameplate for that matter) was at the dealer level. His response was "You think we don't know that?"
The dealers are only pissed that they don't get to pocket an extra $25,000 on each and every new SRT. DC prevented us from getting *****. Thanks DC. (any chance you can bring us an SRT that looks like the Comp Coupe?)

 

[ViperRon]

Why did the last bidder go from 55,000 to 65,000 when you could bid smaller amounts. Something smells fishy

 

[vipernate]

Russ -

It's too bad that you have had bad experiences with Viper Dealers in the past, but not every dealer rapes their clients. These people that are selling their Vipers are doing the same thing that dealers do - selling a car for the price that is willing to be paid. If these Viper owners wanted to sell their car for a great price, why not just sell for a buy it now price of $100 over what they paid for their down payment? If their is a demand out there, then the price of the car will reflect that demand. But don't get the wrong idea, most dealers want happy customers that give them referrals, and certainly not the opposite.

 

[Russ Oasis]

Vipernate,
Sure, not all Dodge dealers are scumbags. My only point is that the dealers are whining about not being able to **** the Viper buyers and then ***** when the occasional Viper owner flips his car and does what they want to do. All in all, VERY few SRT coupon holders are going to sell their cars for a profit. If 5% (that's 5 out of 100) SRT owners were to flip their cars for profit, that would mean that we can anticipate seeing 100 cars resold during the first year. To my knowledge, I've only seen 2 being resold. My take is that 95% of all Viper owners are very GRATEFUL to Dodge for protecting us from getting ***** by the dealers.