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The Elephant in the room

Discussion in 'General Viper Discussion' started by Paul Hawker, Dec 18, 2013.

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  1. knuk

    knuk Enthusiast

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    I would assume that vca would not allow current regional board members to hold a regional board position with the VOA as this would be a conflict of interest?
     
  2. FOViper

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    I'm confused, one sentence you are in the red the next your throwing out $100K in reference to what is at stake. Are you saying you know the account balance of all the regional accounts?

    The fact the you even considered suing a car club says all I need to know about you.

    As for the legacy..... that was pretty much ruined when the VCA NO attacked the CEO, insulted the manufacture and started writing letters to Fiat. Who wants to be associated with that? I know about 900 people that don't.

    Question from post #17 still hasn't been answered. Love all the new communication and transparency that this new board is showing. :rolleyes:
     
  3. knuk

    knuk Enthusiast

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    Yes, an answer to post 17 is paramount at this point.
     
  4. kickinasp

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    Each region is incoporated as its own entity, therefore their treasury is owned by them. Plain and simple. How the club operates is based on their individual club by-laws. The key here is if the club is going to do a "dissolution of the corporation". Then they must follow whatever their bylaws state to do with the funds, and if they incoporated as not for profit, it clearly states the funds can not go to the membership or an individual. They must go to another not for profit organization that is of the chosing of the BOD. YES, they get to choose who gets the funds, no one has claim to them. So they can give the money to a new VOA region or any other not for profit organization. The region does not have to go through all this though, they do not want to "dissolve" their coporation. You just want to legally change your name if "VCA" is in its incoporated name. This is not a dissolution, just a name change. If VCA is not in the name, then carry on as usual. If it is, fill out the paperwork to change your name. I would suggest dont use VOA in it for any future issues. As a reminder, its December and the end of the clubs committment to its membership. The regions owe nothing to their membership beyond 12/31/13. Being that each region is a separately incorporated entity and as stated by the VCA tax return, VCA has NO affilates etc., so they have no legal claim to any region. 2014 dues are new for the upcoming year. If a member wants to join a VCA region, those new dues that VCA pays back to that region are to be used for their membership. If he joins a VOA region, then their dues go to that VOA region. If he joins an independent club, then his membership is honored by that club. If the region gave the member what they were due, access to events, newsletter, etc., then they owe them nothing and the member is not entitled to anything more. Plain and simple. Just a note, VCA has not honored its committment to its membership, i.e., number of magazines etc.
     
  5. knuk

    knuk Enthusiast

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    Very well said.
    Are you a lawyer?
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
  6. VOI9 ASP

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    This is actually kind of funny... It wasn't too long ago that the regions collected the dues for our regions and sent the national a portion of the funds each month. Then the national believed they could handle the funds better then we could... kind of reminds me of the federal government thinking they can spend OUR money better than we can. All of the sudden we had our dues hijacked and had to wait forever for our dues. No way for us to verify we were receiving the dues that belonged to our club. And they never came in a timely manner. The funds were being improperly used for VCA debts. This was wrong. Again... kind of like our current government stealing funds from one account to pay for something totally unrelated then saying the original funds are gone.

    It's my opinion when a club's BOD votes to dissolve their club they can transfer the remaining funds to another non profit club. In our region the majority of the funds in our account didn't come from dues... it came from a source that only one person was responsible for raising. By the way the funds we have in our account goes to charities.
     
  7. Sam Goldfarb

    Sam Goldfarb Enthusiast

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    I added some comments,(Pasted at the end of this post, minus what I assume was the offensive part) providing the link for the information requested and cut and pasted all the regions of VOA and the names, emails and phone numbers of most. It went POOF! To the VCA Thread Heaven where others have gone! Sorry if I crapped in the chili, thought there was some dialog going on?

    I was a proud VCA member since 1998, until a few months back when it seemed to implode upon itself. I was awarded Member of the Year twice, as well as , several comparable Ohio recognitions. I have spent thousands of hours and dollars on VCA, mostly for Ohio stuff. I have "made" hundreds of dollars from things like banners and decals I have made for Ohio, other regions and National VCA.

    I was ignored and snubbed when all the credit was taken and given in a Viper Magazine, along with others that should have been recognized for their efforts at the last VOI. I don't really care about it for myself and only mention it to show the character, abilities and/or uncaring attitude of those that were in charge of VCA at the time. I did all the banners and decals for the last 2 VOIs,with the last one I had only a few weeks, as the request came in very late. I struggled with the provided artwork and when asked to do the centerpieces, directional road signs and stage backdrop, myself and Randall Arnold met with a friend of mine, locally, and we made it happen. That required several trips on my part and artwork changes to get it right. I then picked up all the centerpieces, signs and stage backdrop, late in the afternoon, From Extended Resources (Not Recognized Previously) in my box truck and delivered it to a rendezvous point in North Columbus, where a caravan was forming to leave early the next morning for Charlotte.

    I waited for many hours for someone to show up to offload the VOI stuff. Robert S. was given credit for hauling the stuff to VOI. His trailer was full with OTHER stuff going there and he and his father, Bernie, are always there to lend a hand! However, the stuff actually went into Tom Paranzino's trailer. Think auctioneer who has helped rasing over $250K for VCA events with no fee and obviously no recognition in that magazine article! While waiting I helped Terry Bosserman tear the radio out of his Gen III and get it working with a small screwdriver, flashlight and a Leatherman tool.

    I left for home that night/morning about 1:30 AM! And as anyone that knows me, will tell you, I wasn't in the bar drinking! So, at least I got that off my chest, while I can still post and before the Forum Fairies wake up to send this post off to VCA Thread Heaven.

    By the way, any attorney that tells you that "you have a case" in the same breath that he quotes you his hourly rate and retainer is a shyster, RUN! RUN!
    Below text Originally posted as thread 36 I think! Wait for the promised lawsuits! They take years to run their course, then there are appeals. Lawyers will always suggest lawsuits! I hope that some are not suggesting that if one person in a region opts for VCA membership that they get the keys to the castle? There is NO legal binding relationship between the National VCA and any Region. If I am wrong please , someone, post a copy of the contract. That being said, only individual members of a Region could potentially have a claim.The burden would be to prove that they had a claim on any funds or assets of the region and/or that they have legal standing to represent the rest of the region members. The costs involved to pursue these funds/assets would far exceed any amounts realized from a lawsuit, result in further political damage to the members and will be decided long after most of those funds are history. The thought of getting judges to sign injunctions preventing Regions from operating is so unlikely that I don't know why I even mention it. At best a member might be able to get a small piece of any benefits that he was promised that he was denied. Think things like getting 2 magazines and you were promised 6. As all members had an equal opportunity to attend any event, those that did not, by choice, could not use that fact to say they didn't get their money's worth. In summation, at most, each person might be entitled to his/her dues. In the event that a Region dissolves itself, State law may step in and potentially all "donated" items to a Region for fundraising or charity might need to be returned or turned over to another like kind non-profit. Be careful what you ask for as a forced dissolution may not get the results you want!
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
  8. HyperViper

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    Thanks Sam. I always wondered who made all that stuff. Wouldn't be the same without it.

     
  9. 72hemi

    72hemi Enthusiast

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    Bingo! Very well stated.
     
  10. WANTED

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    some lawyer just jumped up and screamed WOOHOO! there is a santa. lol
     
  11. WANTED

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    lawyers really like this stuff, lots of hours to bill. this above is just one persons opinion. can you imagine when both clubs get
    all parties involved. its a shame it has come to this. the relentless attacks will never stop and now it becomes much worse for
    both clubs.

    yes just another ONE PERSONS OPINION.
     
  12. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    Is it a large room or a small elephant? I think that the only law suit that is going to occur with respect to this particular issue is inside someone's mind. As for lawyers, people find it easy to make fun of them - until they need one. Just ask those who have been falsely accused of a crime. Without law, chaos would reign.
     
  13. knuk

    knuk Enthusiast

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    I think a large empty room...
    Agree with you that nothing will happen. No crime, no lawsuits .
    BTW, I respect most lawyers, other than the one who billed me for a phone call even though I heard him flush the toilet....he billed me while taking a $hit!
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
  14. Sam Goldfarb

    Sam Goldfarb Enthusiast

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    I respect my attorneys, Just not the ones that start BS lawsuits with no merit. I also don't care for the two State of Ohio Attorneys General that defended two doctors that forgot to tell me I had cancer, resulting in a 3.5 year delay in treatment, even after they admitted their negligence. Seems all Ohio doctors are immune, if they work for a State Medical Facility, by statute, also no jury trial and no punitive damages. These laws are made by politicians who are almost all lawyers first! Only two professions in the world call them PRACTICES, doctors and lawyers and while most charge for their time they have no regard for yours. I think perhaps the fact that customers of doctors are called patients is where the word patience comes from! As in waiting for days weeks or months for an appointment, then waiting for hours past the "appointed" time set by them!

    Once again I am sorry for changing the topic of a thread!
    View attachment 29723
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
  15. Bobpantax

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    I am very sorry to read about your experience. My son is a clinical assistant professor of Radiation Oncology at one of our local medical schools specializing in pediatric radiation oncology. His dedication to his patients and their parents is 110%. He is my hero. So as unpleasant as your experience was, there are many physicians who do G-d's work every day.
     
  16. Paul Hawker

    Paul Hawker Enthusiast

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    The purpose of this thread is to hopefully keep the lawyers out of it.

    Wanting to get some guidance for Regional Club Presidents to do everything properly if they quit the VCA.

    Usually when a President quits, they turn over the club assets (or sometimes liabilities) to the next guy who wants to run the club. In this case, some want to take the assets with them, or give them away.

    I do not really care all that much who gets the money, as long as everything is done proper and legal as to keep the lawyers out of it.

    In addition to assets, the paperwork between the regional clubs, the IRS, and state incorporation needs to be done properly in order to avoid any issues down the road.

    There is a lot of emotion in this issue, and I do not want the emotions to cloud the legal ramifications of what may be done improperly.

    Think after this is over, I'll just sell my car, and spend more time with the family. Just had a new Grand Daughter (Noelle) born early this morning. Can't think of a better Christmas Present. (came unwrapped : >)_
     
  17. herbbone

    herbbone Viper Owner

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    Congrats. Enjoy!
     
  18. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    Congrats Paul. Wonderful news.
     
  19. Gustfront

    Gustfront Viper Owner

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    So still no answer for post 17?
     
  20. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    Deleted by me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  21. WANTED

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    LMAO. it will never end with the relentless post from haters who will bring it down for all. gus your just a great guy, really
    your the best thing that ever happen for all viper owners. GUS YOUR ARE THE MAN! do me a favor and post a real pic of
    yourself, can you do that, lol, cant wait for the pics. merry xmas gus , you the man we all always wanted to be.
     
  22. WANTED

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    still waiting gus, your the man! Post a real pic of your self.
    I for one want to see who you really are for us all to see.
    post it!!!!!!!!
     
  23. WANTED

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    answer to post 82 gus! You want answers.

    answer now !!!!!!!!

     
  24. Gustfront

    Gustfront Viper Owner

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    I think you'll find what your after over in the sneaky pete section. I believe it's called the ..uh beefcake thread.
     
  25. CWhiteRun

    CWhiteRun Has Left the Room!

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    I found a picture of wanted:

    126x130xavatar25008_2.gif.pagespeed.ic.9QIy-jdRj8.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  26. WANTED

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    lmao! Knew this was coming. Oh and were all scared , lol.
    l


    l
     
  27. WANTED

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    so much for post 17 , lol
     
  28. WANTED

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    all i can say is, ty ty ty, great pic!


    lmao!
     
  29. WANTED

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    so what about that elephant?
     
  30. knuk

    knuk Enthusiast

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    VCA does not have the funds to bring legal action against all regions. Sure, they can try action against one region to see how it goes. All I can say is good luck.
    Ain't gonna happen though. The club is broke. 75k in the account, 11 days left in the year, 4 magazines to send out....
    Me phoning my credit card company saying that I didn't get what I paid for. The refunds the vca will owe ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
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