Traction Control System Involved in faster times?

[Shelby3]

Congratulations to the new Viper record holders tuner Heffner and driver Chad. Quite an accomplishment is an understatement. I'm no expert in drag racing but did attend the V-10 Nationals at Shreveport(stayed in a Holiday Inn Express) and watched both Roof's TT and Anderson's Underground cars run. Each car had significant traction problems and looked as if they could have run much faster times if that issue could be solved. Has Heffner found the key here and does anyone think there is some type of traction control system on the car? Again congrats to both tuner and driver.

 

[CHAD]

Thanks

 

[Shelby3]

The shades make me think there's a **** in the tree I'm barking up.

 

[RedGTS]

Chad's obviously not talking, but given that the car has an AEM, which has both boost control and traction control features, you can draw your own conclusions. My guess is yes on the boost control and maybe not on the t/c. If the boost control is programmed well they may not need t/c.

 

[Russ M]

Wouldnt you?

 

[FE 065]

A motorcycle magazine made the observation recently that it takes 5x as much power to break traction as it does to keep the tires spinning...

 

[Shelby3]

I see that Heffner has graciously disclosed that there is AEM traction control on the car and also that it has 2.73 gears. How many of you other high horsepower guys will be trying these features to get your power to the ground?

 

[Simms]

My car needs a lot more hp before I worry about 2.73 gears.

I'd like to see if the AEM would help a Roe car out though. I'm guessing minimal except for the traction control.

 

[Jason Heffner]

The game has just begun, follow the leader that is.

 

[ronviper]

Someone mentioned Job Spetter Jr. was involved in the tuning, is that true? He ran 7's in a turbo mustang on 10" tires with the traction control years past. The young man is unbeliveable as a tuner and driver, he fly's around Canada and the US tuning for a fee. This is money well spent, his father and Duttweiler are very close friends and Jr. is a class act. If the rumour is true HEFFNER is a very wise man and will do whatever to keep his customers on the cutting edge.

 

[RedGTS]

I'm definitely going to get my traction control programmed in the spring. Like most everything else related to the tuning game, the key is having someone do it who knows exactly what they're doing. Otherwise you pull too much power, and while you may keep traction, you're a lot slower than you could be. Based on my experience with the Roe and now a Paxton (or should I say custom Paxton system from HEFFNER'S PERFORMANCE, HOME OF THE WORLD'S FASTEST 6-SPEED STREET CAR), I don't think you really need t/c below ~700 rwhp/tq, but it would sure be nice above that.

P.S.--Jason, do I get a discount on the turbo upgrade now?

 

[Russ M]

RedGTS,

You already have an AEM unit? If so you can tune the traction control by yourself, its not very difficult.

 

[RedGTS]

RedGTS,

You already have an AEM unit? If so you can tune the traction control by yourself, its not very difficult.

Russ, there is no doubt I probably could "do it" from the standpoint of limiting wheelspin, but I don't want to lose 100 hp in the process. According to my tuner, getting it just right on a high hp car (IOW limiting spin w/o killing much power) can be tricky. He's been practicing on single-turbo Supras in the rain on very wet pavement and says he's getting pretty good at it.

 

[Russ M]

Ronnie,

I know what you are saying, my suggestion is watch what your tunner does, and learn it. It is doubtfull he will be able to make it perfect on the first try, so you will want to make fine adjustments.

 

[RedGTS]

I'll be interested to see how well the programming of the t/c transfers to changes in conditions (tire pressure, ambient temperature, surface condition, etc.). I didn't ask him, but I'm assuming if he's programming high hp cars so they can go WOT on wet pavement, it must transfer pretty well to dry conditions. I would have thought the large difference in torque required to break the tires loose on dry pavement compared to wet would have messed the whole thing up, but I guess since the AEM uses engine acceleration as its reference, perhaps the "spike" in engine speed when the tires break loose is pretty much the same regardless of the surface conditions? Either that or he's just using a worst case scenario to figure out exactly what the car's spike looks like and then he's dialing it in a little differently for dry pavement.

 

[Russ M]

Ronnie,

I am assuming your car is supercharged, if so his experience with turbo supras is pretty much useless in your case.

Problem with vipers is torque, on my car even with timing falling into negative territory it still has more than enough torque to roast the tires. On a turbo car its easy, just take away boost, on a super charged car you cant do that.

 

[SVS Turbo]

There's many debates going on right now about T/C, in drag racing, road racing and landspeed racing. For years competitors in landspeed have worked diligently to try to eek out a few more mph and now someone with T/C can pull up and go 25mph faster on the salt. Everyone knows the work it has always taken to get a car quicker and faster in drag racing. Obviously a computer can control what your foot and brain cannot. Yes, traction control eliminates what it has taken for others to achieve goals or records in the same level of competition. I'm not taking away anything from Jason and Chads record because they seen the opportunity, this is an UNregulated field of competition and they are pioneers. Regardless everyone would want to be in their position and everybodies combinations are different.

With T/C people will be going faster, easier and actually safer, IMHO, T/C will also save on broken parts due to less stress that us incapable humans put against our cars.

I have experienced what 1000rwhp feels like with traction control on the street and I enjoyed myself immensly and would love to have that feeling all day long. Not everyone can achieve what someone with greater experience and skill can accomplish, SO, you can call this an aid and isn't everything added to the car an aid in order to go faster? Also it's not ONLY the traction control that made it possible. The combination works.

You could say there's still an open slot for a record of Viper in the 8's, boost only, 6 speed, No T/C. But it seems sorta backwards accomplishment because the drivers using T/C will be going so much faster and by the time you accomplish it they will be so far ahead that your record will be futile and everyone will want traction control.

At this point a large part of the game will be who has the better traction control and boost control set-up to achieve a quicker and faster # at the track.

Many people look at it like the computer did it and the driver didn't. The fact is that Chad still went that fast and quick as the pilot. He still had to do some work and I bet he had alot of fun! He was aided with many things in order to do so. One thing he wasn't aided with was NOS.

Now if this was a full blown series like the NHRA it wouldn't fly. This isn't the NHRA and our playground is unregulated. It's always been open season on what ever you can bring to the table to be the fastest and quickest.

Congratulations Chad and Jason

 

[RedGTS]

Ron, how does t/c help on a top speed run on the salt? Is there a limited amount of space you have so that accelerating up to top speed still must be accomplished relatively quickly (which t/c would help)? I wouldn't have thought it would have made any difference out there. Unless you're losing traction over 200. . .

 

[twinvipers]

Does AEM traction work on S/C cars as well ?

 

[sun diego]

It was a six speed. The traction control did not crack off the great shifts. Chad did.

 

[Russ M]

Does AEM traction work on S/C cars as well ?

While not being able to control the boost does limit its capabilities, it is still very capable of at least aiding in traction if not getting it completly under control.

 

[SVS Turbo]

first: The contact patch of the tires we used on the salt is very small(tires looked like a narrow innertube) and traction is minimal and slightly better than being on ice.

Start. 1 2 3 4 5

Ron, how does t/c help on a top speed run on the salt?

By giving you traction from the start and helping you build the greatest amount of speed possible by the 2 mile marker. You have to build it as early as you can because you start covering miles in less time as your speed increases. Once you go by the 2 mile marker everything happens much quicker.

200mph covers a mile in 18 seconds, 250mph in 14 seconds and 300mph at 12 seconds.

Is there a limited amount of space you have so that accelerating up to top speed still must be accomplished relatively quickly (which t/c would help)?

The limited space could be considered the 2 miles before you actually start getting timed. Timing happens at the 2-3, 3-4, 4-5.

I wouldn't have thought it would have made any difference out there. Unless you're losing traction over 200. . .

It would be an enormous advantage having t/c for the first 2 miles to build your momentum. At any point on the 5 mile, t/c would be a huge advantage. You could hear vehicles shift and the immediate over rev of the engine while braking the tires loose at 300mph+

 

[RedGTS]

Thanks for the explanation Ron. Sounds like that's a whole different world out there.

 

[CHAD]

Good write up Ron.

And last time I checked, my class was named UNLIMITED! :lol:

 

[SVS Turbo]

Good write up Ron.

And last time I checked, my class was named UNLIMITED! :lol:

Congrats on the 8.75 and dominating the V10 Nats 6 speed IRS Worlds quickest and fastest

What a great way to bring in the Holidays

 

[fuelman]

Anybody that was there and saw Chad's car go down the track can attest that it was no "Sunday Drive." Chad put it to the wood and set a world record, very few people could stay on the throttle with that violent eruption of power. Way to go Chad!!