Viper Tuner Capability Comparison

[Bobpantax]

Hi all. There have been quite a few tuners discussed over the years but I do not believe that we have ever had a post that attempts to gather the data to compare them. So here is a list of possible questions to do so.

1. Which tuners have a dyno in house?

2. Which tuners can corner balance a suspension?

3. Which tuners can reflash a computer?

4. Which tuners can install an AEM computer and properly tune the car? Same question as to VEC III.

5. Which tuners can install and tune a driveable and reliable supercharger application?

6. Which tuners can install and tune a driveable and relianble turbocharger application?

7. Which tuners will only modify on an organic whole basis? In other words, make sure that the entire car's performance is adjusted to adequately deal with any power increase.

It would be nice to have a chart with the names of the tuners and the answers to the above questions for all of them. Please feel free to add questions.

 

[Mopar Steve]

I can only immagine how nice Jason Heffners shop is. We miss him up here in the Delaware Valley. He had an awesome facillity here and I am sure he has only gotten better.

 

[Warfang]

Would that mean the starred-out tuner from texas will get mentioned here?

 

[Joseph Dell]

Actually, i think the questions above are kinda silly. having a dyno in-house, for example, says nothing about ones tuning ability... it says that you can afford a dyno! Ability to corner-balance a car means you have alignment equipment... again, goes to your ability to spend $$.

Anyone who can 'tune' can tune a SC, TT, NOS, or NA car.

I also love the implications of "tune and drive a reliable"... As if the reliability of a SC or TT set-up has ANYTHING to do with building it.

Tuner A installs a paxton for customer A. Tuner B installs a paxton for customer B. Car A's rear-end breaks because customer A went to the track with stock half-shafts. Car B is never tracked and has upgraded half-shafts. Does that make Tuner A an unreliable tuner?

There are quite a few things that can break on vipers. Even #7 above doesn't ensure that things won't break. In fact, the only way to come close to ensuring things don't break is to OVER-INSURE by buying more/stronger than you actually need. This is how some tuners will protect their reputation b/c they don't want you thinking that their *** ***** b/c you broke a halfshaft.

Ever heard of a SC or TT breaking a car? nope... it is all about the tune and the $$$ you throw at it around the other parts of the car.

It would be nice to have a chart of tuners and what they specialize in. But I'm not so sure that this would ever replace the need for a consumer to call the tuners individually to discuss their individual needs and to then judge from there.

One of the sharpest tuners in S. FL I know doesn't own a dyno or an alignment shop. and why should he... he can just head up the road and use someone else's. plus it takes up room in a shop.

One of the sharpest tuners i know in the US tunes cars for a living. On other people's dynos.

just my .02...

JD

 

[Bobpantax]

Having a dyno in house saves a great deal of time. It allows the tuner to do the tuning on his or her own schedule without regard to the dyno shop's schedule 24/7. It also allows the tuner to more efficiently experiment and determine the benefits or detriments of modification ideas and new equipment.

Similarly, having the tools and weights to corner balance in house is important for the same reason. I believe that too little regard is given to the effect of weight changes to the front of the vehicle from some of the applications utilized. I have wondered for awhile whether added weight to the front ( 70 to 110 pounds ) without adjusting the suspension for the change might be contributing to some of the Viper mishaps.

The questions with regard to the AEM and VEC III involve basic tuner skill sets.

The issue of reliability and driveability are also basic. Many drive their modded cars daily or at least more than once a week. Some tuners seem to have more of a focus on producing a modded vehicle that is as reliable as an OEM production vehicle and appear to be successful at doing so. Others, based on numerous posts over the years, appear to be less concerned about this issue.

With respect to the money issue, I like to see a person put money back into his or her business to make it better and more efficient. I like it when I see that a person has the right tools for the right job. It usually means that there is an increased probability that the job will be done more efficiently and on time. Such a work environment also tends to attract more capable mechanics. e.g. What mechanic do you know who wants to wait around for an off premises dyno test as opposed to being able to do one immediately?

But, I really do not want to debate the list. As I said in the original post, if anyone wants to add points of comparison, feel free to do so. I think it is long overdue that the site had some form of unemotional, objectively measured comparison of the tuners that are discussed and their respective strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Joseph Dell]

Sounds like you want to make a list. I say "go for it" and then let others add to it once you've started it.

JD

 

[Bobpantax]

Sounds like you want to make a list. I say "go for it" and then let others add to it once you've started it.

I think that we should first establish a list of questions capable of being answered "yes" or "no" for the purpose of gathering data. Then, with the permission of the site administrators,email a survey containing those questions to each tuner for which we have an email with a response due date. We could then compile the data obtained in the responses and put it in chart form with the names of the tuners, in alphabetical order on the left side vertically, the data categories on the top horizontally and their respective yes or no answers. What do you think? Any ideas for more questions?

 

[NoRice]

Sounds like you want to make a list. I say "go for it" and then let others add to it once you've started it.

I think that we should first establish a list of questions capable of being answered "yes" or "no" for the purpose of gathering data. Then, with the permission of the site administrators,email a survey containing those questions to each tuner for which we have an email with a response due date. We could then compile the data obtained in the responses and put it in chart form with the names of the tuners, in alphabetical order on the left side vertically, the data categories on the top horizontally and their respective yes or no answers. What do you think? Any ideas for more questions?

Sounds like alot of work for very little useful information. Look forward to the results.

 

[Bobpantax]

"Sounds like alot of work for very little useful information."

The amount and usefulness of the data depend on the precision of the questions asked. With that said, how about some help in the form of some suggested additional questions? It seems to me that puting together the questions should not be difficult. The most time consuming part would be doing the chart with the answers. If a tuner does not respond at all, or only to some of the questions, his or her part of the chart would show "no response" or indicate NR after the questions not answered.

Establishing tuner comparative credentials might also help with the resale of modded cars. Perhaps tommorrow's "Shelby" Vipers are already being made. It would be nice to have a hint as to who the new Shelby might be.

 

[Joseph Dell]

So here's another silly question: What tuner would want to participate? if a tuner knows that they don't have all the 'right' answers to the questions, they aren't going to want to participate. A better forum would be something like what's on the allley where they have a section to rate tuners.

If the individuals don't do it, it won't get done.

 

[Bobpantax]

I can think of at least four that would participate because they are very proud of their shops and their work. Remember a "no response" would show on the chart.

The chart I am proposing is similar to the data used now by sophisticated patients to pick a surgeon: Training, experience, technique used, tools, support staff, back up, number of procedures successfully completed, etc. In some states the stats are on the net. In others you have to dig a little to get the data. Why not give it a try and develop a chart with objective data? The subjective evaluations on the Alley are problematical. Objective data would have more credibility, be more reliable and much fairer to the tuners than data which is skewed by anger and other emotion.

As to questions about reliability and drivability, a series of questions similar to a lemon law analysis could be used having to do with return of vehicles to the tuner for follow up adjustments because the car is not "running right". The problem here is that some subjectivity appears to be unavoidable. Any ideas?

 

[Joseph Dell]

like i said before... good luck! i wouldn't bet too much $$ on getting 'er done, though.