Viper Wreck at PIR

Bad_Byte

Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Posts
949
Reaction score
0
Location
Corpus Christi Tx
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GTS Dean:
OK Sonny,

Picture this scenario at the Kink at Road America. Which wall would you choose? (been there, done that) In my case, it was a throttle steer correction at track-out after a tire pressure adjustment. I breathed the throttle just a bit too abrubtly and went to the inside, but it didn't hurt.

r-acrash1.jpg


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow! 10 minutes with a sawsall and ya got an RT10 there.
laugh.gif


(just wanted to lighten the discussion)
 

joe117

Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Posts
5,391
Reaction score
1
Location
Maryland, USA
Racing or driving fast at a school with unforgiving walls in a basically street Viper seems very risky. Not because the car won't do it but because of the risk to a very expensive car. A street legal Viper is going to be worth at least $30k and up to well more than double that. Anyone who want's to go out and risk their car in that way should be prepared to suffer the consequences. No cry babies, it's a big boys pastime.
Anyone driving their car on a track should seriously consider how they are going to feel if a small mistake results in their car being totaled. It happens and it can happen on your first day on the track with the instructor sitting right beside you.
The fact that the car departs from control at some point is almost always due to a lack of skill. The result of the loss of control, hitting a wall or just a spin, is often a question of luck.
To tell the truth, I'd have to say that someone who is going to start roadracing and plans to start learning in a Viper is just asking for trouble. I'm not saying it can't be done, it's just going to be very hard to master a Viper right from the start.
 

kverges

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 19, 2000
Posts
517
Reaction score
0
Location
Dallas, TX USA
Well said and that's why my RACE car is a Miata. I still track the Viper on occasion, but if you can't *** it up & walk away, don't race it.
 

Sonny 00 GTS ACR

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 21, 2000
Posts
443
Reaction score
0
Location
Old Saybrook, CT. USA
Originally posted by GTS Dean:

OK Sonny,

Picture this scenario at the Kink at Road America. Which wall would you choose? (been there, done that) In my case, it was a throttle steer correction at track-out after a tire pressure adjustment. I breathed the throttle just a bit too abruptly and went to the inside, but it didn't hurt.


Well there you have it Dean, you're not supposed to lift for the kink!
laugh.gif


I'm sure you realize that my point was that sliding off the track is always preferable to hitting a wall, but if you have to choose which one to hit - best of luck! Looks like you made the right choice.
 

GTS Dean

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 22, 2000
Posts
3,796
Reaction score
218
Location
New Braunfels, Texas
Thanks Sonny
wink.gif


I knew the situation was dire. I also knew that if the rear continued left, my side of the car was going to get hit and it would hurt. I got some decel sliding back across the track instead of zero across the grass to the outside.
 

Frank Parise

VCA Venom Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Posts
448
Reaction score
19
Location
Tucson, Arizona USA
I did not witness the accident, but I was at the track when it happened. This was far from being a horrific crash and the car was not in nearly as bad shape as many I have seen peeled off the walls at PIR.

I spoke to the driver after he had been interviewed by the track officials. It was a heartbreaking experience seeeing this happen to a new Viper owner who was trying to do a very good thing by getting driving school instruction. This was his first track experience. His family was there and I felt awful for them. He's a great guy and simply made a big mistake at a very dangerous turn.

What he told me was pretty consistent with the instructor's report as to what happened. It is not uncommon for a novice Viper driver to want to downshift every time they approach a corner on the track. When I instruct a novice, I tell them to put their car in 4th gear and keep it there all the way around the track so that we can learn the proper line. I have never had a novice student that even knew how to heel/toe downshift.

Feeling the desire to downshift is a habit picked up from driving on the street. The problem is that very few Viper owners have a lot of experience on the street downshifting to negotiate sharp turns at over 100 MPH. He should not have downshifted into 3rd gear and he certainly should not have downshifted into 2nd gear. His inexperience resulted in a catastrophic mistake at the worst turn on the track.

Marv is correct in his analysis of Turn 1. An experienced Viper racer will short shift from 3rd gear to 4th gear between Turns 9 and 10, modulate the throttle to maintain speed of 105-110 MPH between Turn 10 and Turn 11, then hit WOT at the apex to Turn 11 which will result in a speed something around 135 MPH past the start finish line on the front straight. You stay to the far right outside wall and lightly brake in a straight line, then you gently add throttle while entering and early apexing Turn 1. At the apex (which is the corner of the concrete wall on your left) you are crossing over the transition bump from the oval to the road course. It is extremely unsettling to the Viper's suspension and it is highly recommended that you go over the bump under throttle to maintain weight on the rear tires. Once past the turn 1 apex, you do hard braking and downshift into 3rd gear to complete the 210 degree left handed Turn 2. Larry Pond and his instructors taught us at the 1998 Viper Days event to make sure you go over the bump under throttle, not braking. Trail braking through Turn 1 is a very risky move even for an experienced driver like Fast Freddy. The only time I do it in Turn 1 is if I made a mistake in not scrubbing off enough speed in my straight-line braking to negotiate the corner. I say a Hail Mary after the run session.

I was shocked to see the instructor's write-up posted on the internet, however, I thought it was very thorough and well-written. I wouldn't be surprised if it actually helps the driver from an insurance standpoint. There is no question that the driver was a student in a driving school at the time of the accident.

As for the lap time discussion, I've logged thousands of laps on this track and never broken out of the 1:06's. This is also what the very fastest Cars in the Motorola Cup/Grand Am Cup run. In a Viper of any kind, a 1:10 during a 2-hour race with 33 other cars on the track is very fast and reflects an experienced driving level. Depending on traffic, anything under 1:10 is exceptional and can rarely be maintained over the course of even a 30-minute sprint race. Last weekend Muzzy set a new track record for a stock-engine Viper on used street tires with a 1:05.6. He won the pole and the race from start to finish in a 29-car field. Ron Misjak's lap of 1:05 back in 1998 was very fast. It was also on an open track in SOLO competition with a 600+ HP SVS motor and stickered Goodyear race slicks. I believe we can now see the 1:04's on Goodyear race slicks, even in our stock-engined Vipers. This is the result of improved aerodynamics and suspension setups.

When Viper Days returns to PIR in April 2003, I'm sure Skip's instructors will be very anal about how to approach Turn 1. Other than between turns 7 and 9, this whole track is bordered by concrete walls on either one or both sides. If you make a huge nmistake, it is likely you'll become acquainted with Fat Albert's Paint and Body Shop.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
153,215
Posts
1,682,042
Members
17,708
Latest member
xeng yang
Top